PSA-25?

[JCooperfan1911]

I have always been intrigued by the Baby Browning .25 Autos, but they are now quite collectible. Since I plan to shoot the gun and maybe even carry it, I’d rather not put wear on the ever increasingly valuable originals. I understand an outfit by the name of PSA makes a replica?



How is the quality compared to a genuine Browning? I have several boxes of .25 ACP and am very interested, but not if they are not reliable good guns.

Thoughts?

PS: Please do not make this a bashing or joke topic. Interested in opinions on the quality of the PSA made Baby Browning copies and not personal thoughts on .25 ACP effectiveness etc. Yes, I know Jeff didn’t like them.

 

[toivo]

If you remember from the "heirloom pocket pistol" thread, I mentioned that I have one. Build quality is excellent -- PSA is licensed by FN to make them. More info from the Wiki:

North American production – FN-licensed
During 1982, discussions began between FN and its North American-based representative Jim Stone focusing on securing a North American-based contractor to manufacture the Baby Browning on a turnkey basis. In 1984 a Canadian Swiss screw machine shop, Precision Small Parts, Ltd (PSP) entered into a technology transfer and production agreement with FN to manufacture the pistol. It was based in Aurora, Ontario and maintained a subsidiary in Charlottesville, Virginia.

FN issued an order to PSP for 40,000 of the pistols, all to be exported to Austria for onward distribution under the Browning logo. PSP's owner Joseph Maygar Sr. had a long working relationship with FN dating back to the days of the Hungarian Resistance Movement of WWII. PSP produced firearms parts as well as sub-machine guns for FN. In 1985 the Canadian federal authorities forced PSP to transfer production of the Baby Browning pistol frame (the essential part according to the legal definition of a firearm) to its Virginia, USA facility, though the Canadian side of the company continued to manufacture the slide and detail parts for the pistol (except for the magazine, which was contracted out to Mec-Gar of Italy). When the US subsidiary of PSP applied for a federal export permit with the Department of State to transfer the pistols to FN via its Austrian intermediary, the permit was denied. At that time, Austria was known to be a trans-shipment point for armaments for the Middle East, and presumably the State Department did not want a large number of Baby Browning pistols ending up in that region.

This action on part of the State Department caused PSP to become insolvent. The insolvency of the company eventually precipitated a sale to a US/Canadian-based investor group in 1991 orchestrated by San Francisco, California based merchant banker Lenn Kristal. During 1995 the technology and inventory of parts of the FN Baby Browning project was spun out by the investor group into a new entity under Kristal's control and direction, which became known as Precision Small Arms, Inc. (PSA), and the pistol was rebranded at that time as the PSA-25 Baby.

As of 2019, PSA offers 27 versions of the original 1931 Baby Browning, including exhibition grade versions which incorporate orange, green and yellow gold, hand chisel engraving and rare materials.[5] All metal parts of the PSA-25 Baby are machined using 4 and 5 axis computerized numeric controlled machining centers and process dimensional control probe technology. All metal parts are hand finished. In 2008 a 303 stainless steel version of the pistol was introduced, and in 2009 a hand drop forged 7075-T652 aluminum framed version (the "Featherweight"). Limited edition runs are made of damascus steel and titanium. As of November 2017 primary machining, finish work and assembly of all of PSA's versions of the Baby Browning has been undertaken in Minden, Nevada.[6] The US Patent Office issued a Configuration Patent to PSA for the configuration of the Baby Browning in 2015.

PSA and its former parent company PSP have been the only licensed manufacturers of the Fabrique Nationale 6.35 mm pocket pistol since 1984, although a copy has been produced in the USA (see below).

-- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_Baby_Browning

There's a bunch of them for sale on Gunbroker now. Prices seem high to me, and out of whack. For example, why would I pay $900 for the base model when I could get the case-hardened one for $1000? Oh well, that's Gunbroker for you: a bunch of sellers trying desperately to figure out what the market will bear.

https://www.gunbroker.com/Semi-Auto-Pistols/search?Keywords=psa .25&Sort=13&PageSize=24

 

[edwardware]

I saw PSA and read Palmetto State Armory. . . whaaa?

That is too cool. Having worked on a couple similar guns, I respect anyone who makes a working replica for reasonable money.

 

[Jimbo80]

You guys are looking in the wrong places for these guns if you're thinking $1K. Originals can still be found at reasonable prices. I saw one in a shop a couple of weeks ago for $250.

 

[toivo]

You guys are looking in the wrong places for these guns if you're thinking $1K. Originals can still be found at reasonable prices. I saw one in a shop a couple of weeks ago for $250.

I agree that $1000 is too high -- I paid $600 for a stainless PSA in 2014. But we're talking about NIB here. The originals you're finding for $250 are 40 to 50 years old -- importation of the originals stopped in 1968 and production ended altogether in 1979.

 

[JCooperfan1911]

I hunted about the Internet and the cheapest price for a NIB PSA-25 was in the mid $900 range.

Is the gun actually worth that? Are they really that good? That’s what I’m trying to find out.

 

[.455_Hunter]

I saw PSA and read Palmetto State Armory. . . whaaa?

Yup- Palmetto definitely stepped on Precision's use of the acronym.

 

[Jimbo80]

[QUOTE="toivo,]The originals you're finding for $250 are 40 to 50 years old [/QUOTE] Yes just about broken in. Most all of my old guns pretty much work just like they did when they were made. Some even look like they were made yesterday.

 

[toivo]

I hunted about the Internet and the cheapest price for a NIB PSA-25 was in the mid $900 range.

Is the gun actually worth that? Are they really that good? That’s what I’m trying to find out.

Hard to say what it's actually worth. The stainless model that I paid $600 for less than 10 years ago is now listed at $1060: almost double the price. It's a beautiful little pistol, but it's not one I really need, so I probably wouldn't buy one at today's price. My salary hasn't doubled since then, so I'm not in a position to spend that kind of money on what is essentially a luxury item.

I guess it comes down to how much you want it and how much discretionary cash you have.

 

[toivo]

The originals you're finding for $250 are 40 to 50 years old

Yes just about broken in. Most all of my old guns pretty much work just like they did when they were made. Some even look like they were made yesterday.

Fair point. I'd be cautious about buying online, though, so you can verify that the pistol is broken in rather than broken down.

 

[Jimbo80]

I picked up this Bauer pretty cheap and it's a great little gun. I carry it sometimes. It's a great design in a tiny package. I don't buy online very often. Prowling the shops for bargains is my thing..

 

[CDW4ME]

I have always been intrigued by the Baby Browning .25 Autos,

Since I plan to shoot the gun and maybe even carry it,

Thoughts?

PS: Please do not make this a bashing or joke topic.

not personal thoughts on .25 ACP effectiveness etc.

Okay, I won't give my personal thoughts on the effectiveness of 25 acp nor bash it.
My thought, for a small pocket gun, I wouldn't go less than a LCP 380 and that would be with discontent.

 

[Tallball]

I picked up this Bauer pretty cheap and it's a great little gun. I carry it sometimes. It's a great design in a tiny package. I don't buy online very often. Prowling the shops for bargains is my thing..

I have one of those, too.

Is it a copy of a Colt that was virtually the same as the Browning? I misremember. It's a cute little pistol.

Bauer 25acp

• Tallball
• Jun 8, 2019

 

[trackskippy]

I had a couple of Brownings and a PSP copy over the years. No experience with the PSA's.

Ive seen nice Brownings around here in local shops for under $500, so I would probably go that route over one of the copies. The PSP I had was well made and worked just as well as the Brownings, but, it wasnt a Browning. Decent copy though.

If youre planning on carrying one loaded, make sure you get a proper holster for it that protects the safety and trigger. I used to carry mine in a folded bandana in my right back pocket, same as my one buddy. I never had any trouble with mine doing so. His went off in that pocket when he bent over while working in the garden with his wife. Luckily, all it did was blow a hole in his pocket and didnt hit anything. His wife wasnt real happy though.

That was an eye opener too, and pretty much the last time I carried mine too.

They are cool, well made (the Brownings anyway) little guns. I put them in the same category as the NAA Mini revolvers. Real guns, that are really more of a novelty, but they will work in a pinch, especailly if youre used to working with them and shooting them.

 

[Jimbo80]

[QUOTE="Tallball,]
Is it a copy of a Colt that was virtually the same as the Browning? I misremember.
[/QUOTE]

It's a copy of the Browning.

I seem to be one of the few around these parts that regularly carries a 32 or 25 and the 25 I carry most is this US made Walther TPH.

 

[JCooperfan1911]

Delete

 

[MedWheeler]

I have one of those Bauers I got back in 2015. Only tried it once and had a lot of feed issues with it. Was messing around with it at home later, and noticed that the magazine clicks firmly right before it's fully seated, and again when it is. I'm pretty sure I wasn't seating it properly all of the time at the range. Some mag-loads ran all six, while others wouldn't run two or three in a row. I never got around to trying it again with more attention to mag-seating, though.

I wasn't really intent on making a carry gun out of it, just thinking of it as a potential BU option, and had developed an interest in the .25acp round. I had bought a Taurus PT25 only a week or two before buying the Bauer; that gun, and the next stainless PT25 I got run flawlessly. I haven't tried out the Beretta 950B (1964-vintage) I paid $150 for a couple of years ago yet. Having owned a P32 since 2011 makes none of these a "logical" carry choice, though, unless it's backing up the P32.

I do like owning the Bauer. It's a nicely-crafted piece of concealed-carry history.

 

[bannockburn]

JCF1911

I have a Lightweight Baby Browning that I constantly marvel at how small and precise it is with it's design and construction. Picked it up at a nearby LGS and it was so amazingly priced (appeared to be like new with it's original box and manual), that I didn't even bother haggling over the price!

I have seen and looked over several PSA-25s and I believe that their quality is every bit the equal of the Baby Browning. Don't think I would want to buy one at those current asking prices though.

 

[Reinz]

For me, as a carry gun, the Seecamp in 32 and 380 made ALL 25’s obsolete (Barring strength and hand gripping issues).

Similar size, more power, at half the price!

 

[JCooperfan1911]

Well I can’t seem to find one for sale under about $950.

Seems a bit stiff. Might pass for now. Unless there’s a reason they’re so high. One thing I’m seeing online from various photos is the safety lever appears to be MIM on the PSA guns?

 

[HisSoldier]

PSA was once PSP, and they don't make a copy of the Browning .25 ACP, they make the real McCoy under license, except it doesn't have two hundred proof marks on it.
I have one of each plus a Bauer and a copy made in South Africa in the 70's, a PAF Junior.

PSA is currently making these guns I believe. https://www.precisionsmallarms.com/

PAF data by Ian's Forgotten Weapons (print); https://www.forgottenweapons.com/p-a-f-junior-south-africas-first-production-gun/

Video;

 

[Mosin77]

$450 for a Browning or $900 for a nicely made licensed copy? I’ll stick with the original if I’m shopping.

I have a Bauer I picked up a couple of years ago for $250 from a pawn shop. Took it to the range once and it fired one mag flawlessly, then jammed every other round when I reloaded that mag. One day I’ll try to sort it out. Meanwhile it’s a cute piece of jewelry. I’d kind of like to get it full-coverage engraved, just because.