Pulled over in VA, cop asked for my gun.

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makarova said:
so you're planning to handle a gun you haven't even seen yet, and dont even know what kind it is(it was dark and in my IWB right side, he would have had to go to the other side of my vehicle to see it), I know you have the legal right to do so, but did you ever consider thats a really bad idea? I really dont want to get shot with my own gun! He drew back and asked " Are you refusing to allow me to disarm you"? I quick replied,
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makarova,
You realize if the officer had wanted to, he could have arrested you right?
Remember, as foolish as it is, OH law states that a loaded gun in a vehicle must be either a)On ones person In plain sight* b)Be in a locked case in plain sight c)Locked in the glove box or d) In the trunk of the vehicle, stored seperately from the ammo (I believe it must also be unloaded in this situation but may be wrong) So if he would have had to go to the other side of the vehicle it could be argued/considered to not be "in plain sight"

*OH law currently does not define "plain sight" and there is a bill in the works to change this requirement

I agree that removing a firearm from a licensed ccw holder during a routine traffic stop isn't necessarily the best idea (not sure there really is anything "routine" about traffic stops though), however I think if it is going to be done, the weapon should be required to remain in it's holster/case even if this means you need to step out of the vehicle and unbuckle/unbutton to remove it
 
I think it is pretty obvious to an outside observer that the profession of LE tends to attract the JBT/power-hungry/inferiority-complex group more so than other jobs. IMO, these jerks make up somewhere around 20% of LE. The rest are simply trying to serve their community. When stopped for a traffic violation, you don't know if you are going to get one of the JBT's or a true professional. However, it really doesn't matter, you still have to follow their directions to the point the law will allow. Just suck it up, hold your tongue, and don't make generalizations latter.
 
Correia said:
5th, and actual most common reason.

They don't know any better.

I'm dead serious. This came up at the last state gathering of concealed weapons instructors and the state Bureau of Criminal Identification (which takes care of permits in Utah).

Most of the problem cops are relatively new. When informed about the gun, they don't know what to do, so they disarm the CCW holder. Usually out of ignorance about officer safety.

This problem has been getting steadily better in recent years as permit holders become more and more common. We pushed for a unit to be inserted into the police academy curriculum about it, but nothing resulted, mostly from lack of time.

That said, there still is that small percentage that are just doofuses that fit into your reason 1-4. PvtPyle got pulled over the other day by one who was a complete jerk. They are out there.

And in defense of the original poster, I've been pulled over seven or eight times in the six years that I've carried a gun here. Never for excessive speeding, but usually because the speed limit is about ten miles an hour less than it should be. I've only gotten one ticket in my life and that was in California. (there is no way that a highway across the middle of the fricking desert should be 55 mph). Everytime I've been pulled over in Utah, I've been armed, usually much better than the officer, and I've only gotten warnings.

I was pulled over once in the middle of nowhere. 75 in a 65. (didn't even realize it was a 65). I had 2 guns on my person. Body armor on the seat next to me. A Wasatch plate carrier full of loaded magazines. And six rifles and shotguns in the back seat, all of them ARs, AKs, or Saigas.

Got a warning to slow it down.

I love Utah.
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Correia has it, often it is out of ignorance rather than malice. That doesn't make me feel any better about it if it would happen to me, but let's not get too carried away with the cries of JBT-type stuff.
 
You have a name like steveracer and there was a speeding ticket involved? Go figure.

I got pulled over for speeding yesterday, and as usual, I was carrying. I had all my credentials out when he walked up to the car, and my hands on the steering wheel. I hended him my license (NY) my registration (VA), my military ID (Navy), and my concealed weapons permit (VA). I've done this a few dozen times.

In VA, the cop runs your license, and gets your CCW info, so I usually just tell him, as a courtesy, "I've got a loaded ______ pistol on my right waist."
This time he wanted it.

Now, I did give it to him, holstered, and he walked back to his car with it. This bugged me. I had another gun right there in the lock box in the console, but I was still a little peeved about him taking my gun. I had been speeding, 10 over, not a jailable offense, and was polite with the cop, so I couldn't see him taking my gun for legal reasons.

What do you folks do?
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So just what courtesy are you extending to the officer by telling him you have a gun? Obviously you weren't being so courteous to tell him you had two guns.

Really, you set yourself up for the problem that was of your own making. You extended some "courtesy" to the officer and got mad when he accepted your courtesy and acted on it. You extended the courtesy to help make him feel at ease, right? Or why else would you tell him?
 
I think it is pretty obvious to an outside observer that the profession of LE tends to attract the JBT/power-hungry/inferiority-complex group more so than other jobs. IMO, these jerks make up somewhere around 20% of LE. The rest are simply trying to serve their community. When stopped for a traffic violation, you don't know if you are going to get one of the JBT's or a true professional. However, it really doesn't matter, you still have to follow their directions to the point the law will allow. Just suck it up, hold your tongue, and don't make generalizations latter
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I don't know what the percentage of jerks versus good guys is, but I think most are decent guys. I am not sure that serving the community is necessarily what they had in mind when they joined up. I suspect a fair number just wanted a reasonably secure job that had decent benefits and some chance of advancement.

I do not think you can be an effective LEO without actually wanting the job, for whatever reason. It is not different in that respect than any other job. You will do poorly if you hate your work. It will eventually eat you up.

There are enough cops with a chip on their shoulder that they give the rest of them a bad rap that while it may not be deserved is understandable.
 
He didn't accept a courtesy, he used it as an excuse.

I race on a racetrack. Never on the street. I don't shoot guns in grocery stores any more than you do, so don't let the racer part of my name get you confused. My name isn't "cop killer", it's steveracer.
I told him to give him situational awareness. He'd know I have a CCW as soon as he ran my license. I was giving him a heads up.
Now, I'm sure he has another weapon besides the one I can clearly see on his hip. My pistol in the lockbox doesn't concern him, as the law doesn't say how many I can carry. All he knows is, I have a gun.
This doesn't mean he can have it.
I could have said, "I have 5 grand in cash in the vehicle" and this would not give him cause to take it.
I was just annoyed. I'm totally calm, being professional and polite, making things as easy for the officer as I can. This should tell him: this guy is ok.
If I was vomiting out of the window, he could yank me out and toss on the cuffs. I get the difference, why is it hard for others?
 
Just because a person qualified for a CHL three years ago does not mean he is not now engaged in criminal activity. It does not mean he is not dangerous. It does not mean he is not now a fugitive from justice. It simply means he was not convicted of a disqualifying offense when he applied for the CHL. That is all a CHL tells an officer, other than the fact you are likely armed.
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So a fugitive from justice is going to announce that he's armed?

1. License plate comes back registered to a fugitive. Felony stop.
2. License plate comes back clean. Driver doesn't present CHL. Cop goes back to the squad car runs DL and takes action based on that.
3. License plate comes back clean. Driver presents CHL. Cop panics, disarms driver, then goes back to the squad car and runs the DL and CHL.

Notice a problem here? A bad guy with a CHL can avoid being disarmed immediately by not presenting the CHL. Furthermore, if the person in the car really is a bad guy, CHL or not, disarming him is not likely to be effective. There could easily be a sawed-off shotgun and two more handguns under the driver's seat.

Also, if the CHL holder is a fugitive, that certainly invalidates the CHL, so he would not be required to disclose because the CHL requirements no longer apply*. Without disclosure, how would the cop know to disarm the driver?

* Not to mention that if they did still apply, and given that the cop is about to go run the DL and find out that the driver is a fugitive, mandatory disclosure would probably be self-incrimination, and thus not legal.
 
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How many tickets? jeez, we get a 5 over on my boat, and the khaki comes a knockin. :fire:

on a lighter note, "do you have a chit for it?" :neener: sorry:D
 
I've never dealt with my command, Confed.

I don't involve my Navy command with traffic violations. I take leave the day before I go to court, for about two weeks. I figure, if it's a reckless driving ticket, and jailable, the worst I'll sit is a couple of days. Then, when I'm out, I go back to work, and cancel my leave. Nobody's the wiser, and it should stay that way. I'm a big boy, the Navy doesn't need to be part of my driving provided I don't hurt anyone.
I give this as advice to all servicemembers: DON'T GO TO COURT IN UNIFORM!! That will land you in way bigger trouble, trust me.
Anyway, the speeding thing is really not a big deal, and shouldn't be getting people in the trouble they have been in around here. I'm fighting the law about "reckless driving" here in VA as hard as my wallet allows. It's just disgusting to lock people up for driving 75 MPH on the freeway! (or 80 in a 65, whichever is lower. VA has great gun laws, but really bad traffic laws)
Steve.
 
Never been

I have never been pulled over while carrying. I carry almost everywhere I can legally. I try to stay no more than 5 miles over the posted limit most of the time.

I did respond to my daughters home when my son-in-law smaked her again at 3AM, so did my son. I was armed, so was my son. PA State Police responded. Later I showed him my carry permit. He just asked that I put it in the glove box since they had the matter under control.

No big deal for me. My nephews a cop in New Mexico. I know that cops get killed most in traffic stops. I understand the dis-arming if asked and will comply. Besides what choice does one have?
 
So what "charges" would you have brought him up on if the officer did laser you with your gun??
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Georgia Criminal Code
16-11-102.
A person is guilty of a misdemeanor when he intentionally and without legal justification points or aims a gun or pistol at another, whether the gun or pistol is loaded or unloaded.

Please note there is no statutory exemption for law enforcement officers.
Take out a warrant for this for starters. File a formal complaint with his chain of command alleging negligence and professional incompetence. Consult a criminal attorney for any possible violations of which I am ignorant just to present a smorgasbord if possible.

Start networking with the people I know just to get the jungle drums beating; couple of sheriffs, couple of state senators, several state representatives. a few assistant DA's, some politically active physicians, the odd attorney.

Depends on where he works whether he would actually be indicted for anything. In the state of Georgia, I could definitely get him on his superiors' "manure" list for opening this headache for them to begin with. I have no doubts that I could make him exquisitely aware of muzzle direction at all times in his future.

I've let being covered by the muzzles of my guns by officers ride in the past. They were clearing weapons that had already been personally cleared by me before leaving the range, so I wasn't really all that bothered...just got the heebie jeebies from the principle of the thing. Strangely enough, none of these officers asked if I was carrying on my person, I did not volunteer the information, and was not relieved of my loaded handgun on my hip during the stop.

Today I have little tolerance for wanton negligence in gun handling. Before the officer(s) took possession of any of my weapons I would remind them of safe muzzle control at all times. If covered, I would command them to cease their unsafe handling. I would also make a formal complaint to their agency, consult a practicing criminal attorney as to possible criminal charges, act upon that consultation by swearing out all applicable warrants, access what connections I have, and, generally, do my small bit to make the event truly memorable to the officer(s) involved.
 
My summer carry gun is a Seacamp......it has a magazine safety that prevents the slide from being retracted when the magazine is out of the pistol......to completely clear it, you must first remove the magazine, empty the magazine, re-insert the empty magazine and rack the slide to clear the chamber......I'd be willing to bet that 95% of cops couldn't clear it without being shown how! Furthermore, I carry it in a pocket holster, so there is NO WAY a cop can safely disarm me while I sit in the drivers seat.....unless he asks me to remove the pistol from my pocket or gets in the car and sticks his hand in my pocket........now, if it's a good looking female cop, I might insist that she disarm me for her safety!:D

Routinely disarming people who are legally carrying and have notified the officer of that fact is just plain stupid........
 
The only time I would tell the cop I had a gun is if he asked me to get out of the car. Other than that it's never going to come up unless he asks.

I think some people just want someone to know they are carrying a gun. Foolish.
 
You missed that part.

As soon as he runs my license, he sees my ccw info, In the past, I;ve kept quiet about it, and gotten the third degree for not telling them.
You can call me foolish, or they can give me heat. I guess the way to win is not carry? Never going that route, sorry.
 
steveracer,

Just another guy who thinks his state's laws are universal. He lives in a state where it's not going to come up on the DL check and where there is no duty to inform an officer during the traffic stop.

Hopefully, he'll never move to such a state. If he does, he'll apply for a carry permit, receive one, and not bother to research state law. After all, it will be the same as his original state and he already knows that, so why bother? Then he'll get stopped, not say anything, and then wonder why he's in trouble and everybody is picking on him.

Hopefully, he won't get stopped just after a brother officer has been shot twenty miles away by someone driving the same model and color of car as his when this happens. When the CCW comes over the radio and he hasn't said anything to the officer...sure hope it's a calm and collected officer.
 
Got no probelm with him asking and taking it back to his car with him. First, he doesn't know you from a hole in the wall so it's in his best interest to make the enviornment as safe as possible until he's sure of what is going on and exactly who you are. Secondly, since he's not 100% sure of who you are and and such, it's likely he'd maybe want to check to see that that particular gun isn't stolen.

Look at it from his POV...you detain someone that's clearly breaking a law. You have no idea who this person is but yu do know they have a loaded gun. Does you're awareness level go up? With the number of loonies out there these boys in blue gotta keep themselves safe.
 
Look at it from his POV...you detain someone that's clearly breaking a law. You have no idea who this person is but yu do know they have a loaded gun. Does you're awareness level go up? With the number of loonies out there these boys in blue gotta keep themselves safe.
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I want the officers to be safe. They are doing the job that most of us would not want to do and have to deal with a lot of scum. The thing I have a problem with is now they are handling the CCW. It sounds like a lot of the "I must disarm you for my safety" cops are not into guns like we are and are now handling a loaded firearm that they aren't the least bit familiar with. That opens up the possibility for them to shoot themselves, me, my car, their car, a passerby, etc. This along with the fact they have now taken away your means of defending yourself. Yes it's probably never happened where you would need your weapon in that scenario to assist the officer or defend yourself but stranger things have happened.
CCW carriers have demonstrated they are safe, have jumped through the legal hoops and put themselves in FBI/Police databases. Your averagae Gary Gangbanger has a loaded pistol, will not show up as a weapon holder when the DL is run, and when asked if there are any weapons in the car will say "NO".
That's just my .02 YMMV
 
I understand officer safety, but in many cases like this, it just doesn't make sense.

Why waste your time?
 
It sounds like a lot of the "I must disarm you for my safety" cops are not into guns like we are and are now handling a loaded firearm that they aren't the least bit familiar with.
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Follow the gun safe handling rles and there's no worry about this. Chances are he'll be more cautious with an unfamiliar model than he would with his own. Safety is his primary concern at that point.
 
For some strange reason, driving the speed limit seems to be an alien concept to a lot of people. I drive the speed limit and almost everyone zooms past me. Whenever I suggest driving the speed limit, people respond like I'm crazy.

Speed limits are there for a reason, not just because someone didn't have anything better to do that day.
 
Speed limits are indeed there for a reason. They provide revenue for the state. But you can use them to your advantage. If a cop stops you for speeding when you weren't, you'll know that if he asks you to disarm, you should refuse, with extreme prejudice.

I drive three or four mph over the speed limit, using my cruise control when prudent to make it easier to maintain. I have only ever been stopped for speeding once, on a beautiful, empty stretch of recently repaved highway, where I was driving 70 in a 55 zone. And I've been driving 400 miles a week for the past nine years.

If you do the math, you'll discover that an extra 10 or 15 mph saves you very little time on trips shorter than three or four hours. Relax. What's the hurry?
 
"Speed limits are indeed there for a reason. They provide revenue for the state."

After driving on other parts of the planet in places like europe, asia, and africa, one appreciates traffic laws, and places where traffic laws are respected, even if half-heartedly, and more importantly, enforced.
 
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