Pump action

[Working Man]

Why is it that in action/sci-fi movies no matter how far into the future
there is always a pumpaction gun of some sort?

I was watching Aliens again and it started me thinking.

So what futuristic movies have you seen where a pump was used (and
maybe shouldn't have been)? What was the gun (if real)?

 

[GunnySkox]

Well, if you think about it, you can have all the high-tech widgets and geegaws and whatchamacallits and bobamagnihts you want, but mechanical simplicity will always win out in terms of reliability and ease of maintenance/repair. The grenade launchers in aliens were Remington 870s (hilarious note: depressing the nosecap of an M40 grenade can supposedly cause it to go off. However, _FOUR_ of them are supposed to be able to be loaded into the TUBULAR magazine of an M41A's underslung grenade launcheR) and Hicks' shotgun was just a personal weapon.

Of course, in games like Half-Life 2 (SPAS-12), I wish someone would lean over and tap Gordon Freeman on the shoulder and point him toward the switch/button/lever that flips the gun to Semi-Auto mode.

All that said, I don't think mechanically simple firearms will ever really be out of style until you can make electronics as or more tough than just plain ol' metal-touchin'-metal.

"10mm explosive-tip caseless. Why?" ~Lt. Gormann

~Slam_Fire

PS ~ In games, especially, if shotguns didn't have the sort of delay caused by the pump-action, they'd have to be drastically weakened to maintain weapon balance, and that'd be even less cool.

 

[psyopspec]

MIB, The Matrix for movies.

IMO, Hollywood always goes for what looks/sounds good on a big screen. The sound of a shotgun being racked is considered by Hollywood to be universal language for "something's about to die." As long as audiences are enthralled by the look and sound of the pump action, it'll be a timeless trademark to imply badassiness for the weapon or the character holding it.

 

[Khaotic]

Heh, not just hollywood... BG's freak out at the sound of a shotgun slide being racked too.

Slam has a good point in that simplicity and effectiveness are gonna keep em around forever - once you achieve perfection, you don't mess with it.
We're still using the same basic toothpick design that throg and bog back in the caveman days used, aren't we ?

-K

 

[firefighter4884]

Slam

I would imagine that the M40 grendage would also have a spin lock safety, so that you need to put a rotational force on the grenade to get it to explode by depressing the cap.

I did a quick websearch, and based off the limited information that I found about the M40 on the aliens website, it seemed like the plastic cap would probably support the weight of the rounds as they were fed into the tube mag and then loaded into the chamber.

Not quite sure though...and it's not something you could figure out one way or the other without a bunch of data that the creators of the movie never thought of...

--Jim

 

[armoredman]

10 mm caseless, but when Vasquez is shooting while retreating in the vent duct, spent cases are flying right on out.....
Still would love to have one or two laying about....

 

[nomadboi]

What cracked me up was in 'firefly' when Jayne racks his shotgun and you get a laser powering up kinda sound effect.

It's not just shotguns though. How many times have you seen bad movies or tv where halfway into a holdup or showdown a character racks the slide on a semi-auto just to prove how serious he is. Generally no rounds pop out, implying that the thing has been unloaded this whole time. Sometimes they do this several times in the same scene (empty mag too?) before finally firing...

 

[GEM]

Still would love to have one or two laying about.... - that the gun or Vasquez?

Anyway, it's Freudian - big noise, long gun, stroking it - just some kind of aggressive display behavior.

 

[vesmcd]

"Outland"(1981) with Sean Connery. Connery uses a Rem 870 riot gun to smoke B/G's on Jupiter. "Zardoz"(1973), again Sean C. this time using a Broomhandle Mauser.

 

[GunnySkox]

I would imagine that the M40 grendage would also have a spin lock safety, so that you need to put a rotational force on the grenade to get it to explode by depressing the cap.

I'm not saying this to sound like a dick, or to sound like I'm superior, or to sound like I'm trying to _get_ you, or anything, but I'm a total nerd, so I have the ALIENS: Colonial Marines Technical Manual (which is one of the most fun books I've ever owned, by the way), and it specifically notes that depressing the nosecap on an M40 grenade is not to be done, because it can cause the grenade to detonate.
Remember how Vasquez and Gormann bought it? She squeezed her thumb down on top of the grenade.

However, the book additionally notes that one can remove the nose-cap, then twist the fuse-rod underneath to give the grenade a 5-second time-delay, making it an ad-hoc Hand Grenade.

I did a quick websearch, and based off the limited information that I found about the M40 on the aliens website, it seemed like the plastic cap would probably support the weight of the rounds as they were fed into the tube mag and then loaded into the chamber.

Maybe, it _did_ only hold four rounds (or maybe three; it only mentioned the capacity was four, didn't specifically mention mag-capacity + chamber).

Not quite sure though...and it's not something you could figure out one way or the other without a bunch of data that the creators of the movie never thought of...

--Jim

Thank God for Tech Manuals, or we nerdlings would be lost!

~Slam_Fire

 

[Khaotic]

10 mm caseless, but when Vasquez is shooting while retreating in the vent duct, spent cases are flying right on out.....

Paraphrased cause it's been a while since I've seen it.

Ripley - "What do those pulse rifles fire ?"

Gorman - "10mm caseless armor piercing rounds"

Ripley - "If your men fire in there, wont they (hit something?)"

Gorman - *craps a biiiig brick*

I think the 10mm comment included the rifles, but not the heavy guns.
Frost (the guy tapped to collect and hold the magazines) had one of the Best Lines Ever
"What are we supposed to use man, harsh language?!"

-K

 

[boofus]

The smart guns and the pulse rifles both fired 10mm explosive rounds. But the smart guns used non-disintegrating linked rounds, the rifles were supposed to be 'caseless' but you do indeed see empty shells fly out of them. Whoops.

 

[mainmech48]

Technically, it's tough to get a semi-auto shotgun to operate reliably with blanks. Since lots of folks consider the 12 ga. to be the ne plus ultra of intimidation (and imbue it with destructive powers of mythical proportions) we're going to keep seeing those trombone 12s blowing baddies six feet backwards and causing cars, fuel tankers and assorted drums of nasty chemicals to explode into dramatic fireballs.

IIRC, that "Broomhandle" in Zardoz was actually a Webley-Fosberry. Even stranger looking, and who but a Brit would've ever come up with it.

 

[nomadboi]

I would think a shotgun would be one of the easier weapons to modify to fire blanks- all you'd need is a choke that works as a restrictor...

 

[mountain_cowboy]

Wow, Slamfire, you are a nerd.

 

[Eightball]

...actually a Webley-Fosberry. Even stranger looking, and who but a Brit would've ever come up with it.

Amen to that. Not only strange looking, but near useless--who can keep their arm perfectly straight under those recoil forces in order to allow the slide to work ? Now, if they wanted a semi-auto revolver, the Mateba works....but that's a topic for a different thread.

As far as "always a slide action" (the technically correct term, just to be picky ), they work. If a round doesn't go off (which never seems to happen, unless it's a really tense scene for the actors....), just cylcle the action and BANG! If a semi-auto doesn't fire, you're up a slightly bigger creek without a paddle....but it does make you wonder what would happen if they perfected things like the Pancor Jackhammer or the USAS-15 shotguns in the near future--maybe all movies in the future would feature shotgunners loading up their mags and working the action . Fun times .

 

[mainmech48]

Many of the older semis and the more 'ominous'-looking of the newer designs like the Benelli M1, are recoil-operated. Takes a good deal more than a choke to make them cycle a blank.

Some gas systems can be made to cycle with a restrictor device, but getting it to do so without generating potentially dangerous ejecta from the muzzle is much more difficult.

Difficult=expensive, ergo it's safer and more cost-effective to go with a mechanical system where those issues are mostly rendered moot, especially where the "dramatic" considerations won't be affected.

 

[benEzra]

The shotgun your super-soldier uses in Halo is a pump action (8 gauge Hippo brand, if you look at a spent casing with the scope on your sniper rifle...at least in Halo 1...)

 

[vesmcd]

Mainmech48, correct on the Webley-Fosberry, brainfart on my part. Eightball, I have shot both the .38 and .455 W-F's and while they recoil a little weird, they're not too bad once you get used to 'em. Anyway, lets stop beating the "Alien" dead horse and come up with some more sci-fi movies with powder guns. Workingman,if animated counts, in "Wizards",the good wiz used a Luger to off his evil bro'.

 

[DarthBubba]

funny story in answer

I had an Great Uncle who was the chief of police in Beaumont Texas and he told me this interesting story.

Back in the early 70's he got a call to assist the Houston police in the apprehension of a fugitive that had many priors for armed robbery and violent assault. They had good intel telling them that he was hiding out in Beaumont with a cousin.
They went to the cousins house and were welcomed with gun fire as soon as the pulled up,
Oh yes the perp was there and ready to fight.
The criminal managed to get out the back off the house and into an alley behind the house he repeatedly fired on police when they tried to get position on him, he managed to keep them in a stand off for over 2 hours.
Finally my Great Uncle authorized the use of a shot gun squad 6 officers rearmed themselves with Mod. 12 Winchesters they stood at the end of the alley and all jacked the actions at the same time.
This prompted the crook to immediately surrender and come crawling out all scared and yelling don't shoot I give up.
Later after he was booked my Uncle interviewed him and asked him what had changed his mind about shooting it out with the officers.
His reply was “Well sir I will tell you, When you is shootin a pistol at me I figure that bullet might have my name on it might not, but when I heard them shotguns coming to get me I knew that they was addressed to whom it may concern”.
Point is that you go with what is scary and simple which means way into the future as long as there are guns there will always be the machismo attached to the pump action.

DarthBubba

 

[Eightball]

Okay, what about the first movie in "The Matrix" trilogy? Lobby scene, SPAS-12, pump action......why? They had an M16A1 for the full-auto (which is correct), but they skimped on the SPAS?

They even managed to get the scene at the end to work, with the Desert Eagle firing normal rounds into bulletproof glass (which the camera was behind), but can't do the same for the SPAS?

 

[Red Tornado]

It's hard to beat Linda Hamilton one-handing the pump (Rem 870?) at the end of T2. A semi just wouldn't have the same effect.
RT

 

[GunnySkox]

I think the 10mm comment included the rifles, but not the heavy guns.

The M56 Smartgun also fires at 10mm round, but its propellant block is longer. If I had the tech manual in my hands, I'd give the exact specs of each round, but I don't.

The worry about firing in the Atmosphere Processor is that if any of the HEAP bullets were to fly upwards into the processor's primary heat exchanger (thereby damaging/destroying its cooling system) that the reactor would go critical and the resulting thermonuclear detonation would be, IIRC, "the size of Nebraska"

Wow, Slamfire, you are a nerd.

<Shaft Theme Song Voice> You daaaamn right. </Shaft>

~Slam_Fire

 

[Working Man]

Thats a great story DarthBubba

"but when I heard them shotguns coming to get me I knew that they was
addressed to whom it may concern"

funniest thing I've heard in a while.

So it seems the sound and general familiarity plays a big roll in the
selection of pump action weapons. The cool O'sh*t factor when you hear it.

A lot of interesting info... Aliens' weapons may deserve their own thread.

 

[Gifted]

Halo is an eight gauge. 3.5" magnum 00 IIRC. I think the SPARTANS in their power armor would be the only people to be able to shoot it.

I remember in one of the Star Trek movies, Nemesis I believe, they are getting out their phaser rifles, and they do an equivalent to charging the weapon. They slide a little door back on it, and slide it back. I guess checking the battery?