Question about CA laws.

[firestar]

I have noticed that CA has some of the most restrictive gun control laws in the counrty, are the laws only against buying these banned weapons or even owning them?

Can someone with a gun collection move into CA with his guns and keep them? What if that someone had CA banned weapons?

My main question is, can I take my guns to CA if I had to move there? This is not in my immediate future but in several years it might be. I have hi-cap pistols and assult rifles and guns that are perfectly legal in IN but not CA. Will they stop me at the border and make me turn them in to be destroyed?

 

[RoyRapoport]

The short answer is: No.

CA went through several phases of banning guns; at each phase, people who owned these weapons were given an opportunity to transfer their firearms out of state or register them with the state. Once the guns were banned, no new instances of them were allowed to be brought in-state.

Same thing for magazines as of 1/1/2000, except that you don't register them, so while it would be trivially easy to prove you didn't register an AR-15, it'd be impossible to prove a state resident did not possess the mag before 1/1/2000. However, someone moving into the state could not bring their mags with them, and if the state really wanted to, I'm assuming they could say "you were not here before 1/1/2000, therefore all your highcaps could not have been here before that date." (Unlike the Fed ban on highcaps which allows you to transfer them, the CA ban bans transfers -- I cannot sell or give my highcaps to another CA resident).

-roy

 

[Airwolf]

Well, you'll get stopped at the border, but for an agricultural inspection... at least for now. If the comedy (of errors) team of Davis/Lockyer had their way I'm sure that everyone would be searched for weapons when entering the PRK.

Here's the link to the "Dangerous Weapons Control Law" (all 147 pages) http://caag.state.ca.us/firearms/dwcl/dwc.htm. If after reading that steaming pile of BS, you still are considering moving here, I strongly suggest counseling.

 

[Kahr carrier]

Boy isnt life in the PRK great ZIG-HEIL.

 

[10-Ring]

Yup, if you have those evil guns, current laws won't allow you to legally bring them in & corrupt us.:banghead:

 

[Bostonterrier97]

I would like to make a few comments here:

CA law has 2 different classes of "Assault Weapons" and possession of an Unregistered Assault Weapon or the possession of a Registered Assault Weapon but you are not the owner that it is registered to constitutes a FELONY under the Law.

Assault Weapons in the first class (are those weapons which are listed by Name on the 1989 Roberti Roos Assault Weapons Ban). The Registration deadline for these weapons passed back in 1990.

Now here is a VERY important point about the 1989 Roberti Roos Act..( this law defines what is an Assault Weapon by NAME) under this law the State Attorney General has the power to ADD a weapon to the list. (Don't even think about a court challenge: The CA State Supreme Court has ruled that it is NOT a violation of the Seperation of Powers for an Attorney General to add weapons to the list.)
Weapons on this LIST do NOT need to have any distinguishing characteristics, just have the name on the receiver which matches the name on the list.

So if you have a pre ban FAL which says something like: Fabrique Nationale FAL..it would be a Category 1 Rifle under the 1989 Roberti Roos Act and as such would have had been registered prior to 1990..

However if you have a "FAL" that says..."Imbel" on the Receiver and is marked Century Arms Sporter..and has a thumbhole stock and no flash hider it would be considered to an Category 3 Assault Weapon and would fall under SB23 in which case it would be defined by the number of distinguishing characteristics, and would have had been registered prior to Jan.1 2001.
IF however, you REMOVE the Thumbhole stock then..it would no longer be defined as an Assault Weapon and thus you could legally bring it into California.

A combined listing of Category 1 and 2 Assault Weapons (as defined under the Roberti Roos Act) can be found at: http://caag.state.ca.us/firearms/forms/pdf/awguide.pdf

see pages 92,93,94

Assault Weapons in the Second Class fall under SB23 which defined what an "Assault Weapon" is by having a certain number of characteristics (or features). For example..a Semi Automatic Rifle which is capable of accepting a detachable magazine which has a Flash hider and/or a Pistol Grip and/or a Thumbhole Stock is defined as an "Assault Weapon"
(ie. if you have an M1A with a Flash Hider and standard stock it is an "Assault Weapon" however if you remove Flash hider and had a muzzle break on it instead then it would no longer be defined as an SB23 Assault Weapon.)


At the same time CA legislators (in their "wisdom") outlawed all registration after Jan 1.,2001. (Sales and Transfers were stopped on Jan 1, 2000) for weapons.

On the issue of "high capacity" magazines, since you have not been a resident of CA since Jan.1, 2000...it is easy for the authorities to prove that you broke the law..(assuming you break it by moving here with hi cap magazines)

Basically my advice to you is to STAY AWAY from California!

There is more gun control legislation coming up here in California..
notably a Ban on 50 caliber centerfire rifles AND a law requiring Ballistic Identification of Firearms.

BTW on Assault Weapons: in California the DOJ database containing the list of registered owners and their Assault Weapons is linked to the DMV database containing their driver's licenses and vehicle registrations. So when a police officer runs a check on your vehicle's registration and license, he is automatically flagged if you are a registered owner of a registered assault weapon.

It is highly advisable for registered California owners when driving with an Assault Weapon in the car in California to carry some photo copied proof of their registration of the particular Assault Weapon that they have in their car.

Otherwise, they might face an arrest and get their weapon confiscated...and they might not get the weapon returned even if it is determined that they are the lawful owner. Because the SB23 law contains a clause that the local District Attorney can deem an Assault Weapon to be a "public nuisance" and have it permanently confiscated.

(yes..in California AW owners and their weapons are registered just like a sex offender, the act of registering an Assault Weapon and the linkage of the two databases caused a registration of people, just like being a Jew in Pre WWII Nazi Germany)
I find this particularly irksome, since the DMV handles both licenses and California ID cards...everytime I move the databases get updated on my location.

Being an Inmate here in the California Gulag..my best advice is DON'T MOVE HERE!!!!

 

[RoyRapoport]

Some clarification to BostonTerrier's clarification:

One thing many people forget is that the recent (~2000) expansion of the AW ban made it so weapons were banned by THREE categories. Most people remember the first two:
A) Ban by name (e.g. "Colt AR-15");
B) Ban by useful features (e.g. "folding stock")

But many people forget the third:
C) Ban by family membership.

The last one made it so there are no more Bushmasters, DPMS, etc firearms in the state, because even though they're not AR-15s, they're in the AR-15 family. Similarly, I'd be willing to bet that a CA Sporter is a FAL and is banned.

For a while, a lot of people were coming up with horribly kludgy pistol grip replacements for AR15s until we found out that they were irrelevant, since AR15-type rifles were banned by family membership, not useful features.

 

[Bostonterrier97]

Yes...but this other classification is called the Category 2 or "Series" category.

Here is how the law works:

What happens is that the State Attorney General compiles a list by NAME of weapons which belong in the family. For example..AR Series or AK Series..however IF the Attorney General through oversight leaves out a particular name (eg. XYZ Sport Utility Rifle ) even though its design clearly belongs within the banned family of weapons (AR or AK, etc)..it still falls under SB23 Assault Weapons UNTIL the Attorney General gets around to adding it to the Roberti Roos Act, in which case by law they must give owners of "XYZ Sport Utility Rifle" notice that they have 30 days to register the weapons.

Here is an example.

Suppose Joe Sixpack moved to California from Texas with his "XYZ Sport Utility Rifle". This rifle is clearly an AK or AR design..but because it actually isn't on the list of Category 1 and 2 Assault Weapons..it is a Category 3 Assault Weapon (ie. SB23).

Joe Sixpack being a rather astute fellow...removes the thumbhole stock or pistol grip..making the "XYZ Sport Utility Rifle" legal (not an Assault Weapon according to SB23). Joe Sixpack then crosses the California Border passing through the "agricultural" checkpoint.

But Joe Sixpack is unhappy because "XYZ Sport Utility Rifle" doesn't handle well without the pistol grip or thumbhole stock..in fact it is downright hard to fire the thing.

But Joe Sixpack is a patient man...he decides to build up a collection of XYZ Sport Utility Rifles....

Then the horrible rainy day comes when some knome working in the State DOJ's office notices that the small company XYZ is producing the black (and thus evil) "Sport Utility Rifle" and "by Golly!" even though this rifle is clearly an "AK" or "AR" series rifle it isn't mentioned on the LIST!!!!

So this bureaucratic knome then puts together informs the Attorney General and puts together an Addendum (list) of rifles to ADD to the Roberti Roos Law (new category 2 weapons).

The Attorney General then adds them to the list, and makes a public announcement on the DOJ website that all owners of "XYZ Sport Utility Rifles" have 30 days to register their weapons.

Joe Sixpack (a rather alert fellow) reads the notice and registers his weapons.

Now since they are officially category 2 weapons..he is legally able to slap on a pistol grip or thumbhole stock.
September 1994 rolls around and the Federal 1994 Assault Weapon Ban Expires..it doesn't quite affect Joe Sixpack since his Category 2 Assault Weapon is still an Assault Weapon under California Law..however, he can now install that flash hider and bayonet lug.

Joe Sixpack does so...but then something tragic happens..Joe Sixpack gets into a car accident and dies...Mrs. Joe Sixpack then gets a notice in the mail from the CA State DOJ office to surrender the registered "XYZ Sport Utility Rifle" to the nearest Police Station , destroy the Rifle or move it out of state.

1 or 2 months later, a knock comes on the door in the middle of the night and Mrs. Sixpack's house is raided by JBT's looking for the rifle.

Did Mrs. Sixpack get rid of the rifle, hide it, or move it out of state?

 

[80fl]

Will they stop me at the border and make me turn them in to be destroyed?

If you are moving to a fairly remote county, the local gendarmes will probably not give you any trouble. If you decide to partake in civil disobedience by bringing your stash into the Gulag Archipelago, make sure you are not simultaneously bringing in vegetables, plants, or even pets; in other words, do not give the prison guards any other reason to search your vehicle.
Having "known someone" who claims he "might have" performed "one or two" acts of similar civil disobedience, "maybe", but he doesn't really "remember" if this was real or a dream......"He" doesn't think you'd have any trouble.

"He" did caution me that "He's" not a lawyer, and didn't even stay in a Holiday Inn Express.

As others are telling you to not move into the Socialist Republic of California, I on the other hand, am encouraging you to make the move. Think of it as a sacrifice for your country. Although one more vote will not make a difference, perhaps someday the sandal clad libs will move out, the illegals will move out, and freedom loving 'muricans will have a chance to retake our lost territory.
:banghead:

 

[RoyRapoport]

For what it's worth, really, and to answer one of the original questions: They won't stop you at the border. They may ask you about fruit, but they don't ask about weapons, and I know many people who go from NV to CA returning from firearms training with weapons in their car -- never a problem.

So in the end, it may be illegal, and you may get caught, but you will NOT get caught at the border.

-roy

 

[firestar]

The more I hear about CA laws, the more surprised I am! I didn't think it was as bad as it is! I guess this is what happens when people over react to gun crime or a isolated shooting.

CA is a big place and has alot of people, it is hard to believe that people really believe that these laws will help out in the least!

I guess I would have to sell many of my guns if I have to move there. Nothing is even planned yet but I wanted to know so I could weigh the pros and cons.

BTW, I think the rest of the country should do something to help out the gun owner of CA. Doesn't the NRA have any power there?

 

[redhead]

Hm.. I managed to sneak into the state with a bag of key limes last year. Actually, it was unintentional. We had been visiting my mom, and she had the limes, and didn't want them. Brought them back with us, and I had forgotten they were in the car. When asked to declare fruits and vegetables, I mentioned the oranges we had that had been purchased at the supermarket. Fine. They look at them anyway. However, we also had some firearms, as we go shooting with my nephew when we visit. I don't think the ag inspection folks would bother with those. They really don't have any authority in that area. But God help you if you have a bale of hay! (I know of travelling horsemen who have had their hay confiscated, without compensation)

 

[Kestryll]

"CA is a big place and has alot of people, it is hard to believe that people really believe that these laws will help out in the least!"
Most of our fine State is run by the liberal enclaves of Los Angeles and San Francisco.

"Doesn't the NRA have any power there?"
The NRA seems to have given up on California, we are the sacrificial lamb to distract the antis while the NRA tries to save the other States.

Just the opinions of a lietime resident and NRA life member...

 

[Shalako]

Here is an interesting tidbit for you as well.

Part of the Jan 2001 AW Registration included the stipulation that once the AW is registered, it may not change hands or move out of state. The AG wants to know precisely where that weapon is for eternity.

Even though California has such a large population, most of them think any gun-control must be good gun-control. It would make their brains hurt to contemplate whether these laws make sense or not.

 

[Standing Wolf]

I miss the People's Republic of California about half as much as a wretched venereal disease.

 

[Ledbetter]

I'm glad you no longer suffer from either one.

 

[bobw]

hmm.. DPRK = Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea, or DPRK = Democratic Peoples Republic of California.

Taking honest citizens' Homeland Security Rifles away from them at a time when we're (supposed to be) fighting terrorism would make the Homeland Security Rifle-grabbing politicians pro-terrorism, wouldn't it?

 

[El Rojo]

I think you are right BOBW!!! I wouldn't sell your guns. Either leave them with family out of state, or bring them in and keep 'em out of sight. What are you talking about bringing in? ARs and AKs are definitely out. If you have an M1A you can just add the PRK legal muzzle break. Certain handguns are a no, but don't ask me about that one. All of your standard capacity magazines over 10 rounds are not supposed to come in. As a new resident, you won't be able to claim you have had them since 1985 like the rest of us. That is just my two cents. If you make it here, let us know where you settle. There are many of us around and we like new shooting buddies.

 

[Bostonterrier97]

Other California Gun Laws..

In California, no private sales can be made. They must go through an FFL holder, complete with a filled out 4473.
(unless the gun in question was made before 1899 then it is considered to be an Antique).

All Handguns MUST be registered with the State DOJ.

All New Handguns sold must be on a State Approved list of "Safe Handguns" (note: LEO's are exempt from being restricted to state approved "safe" handguns).

If you want to BUY a handgun, you need a Handgun Buyer's Permit. To get the Permit you have to take a written test, a gun handling test, and give them your prints. Also the Buyer's permit becomes a "license" to possess any handgun you buy with it. If you get your buyer's permit revoked, they come to take away the pistol that you bought with it.

(at least that is what was in the original bill, I just gave up trying to keep up with all of the sewage coming out of our state capital and gave up trying to buying more firearms.)

Getting a Concealed Carry Permit in California is incredibly difficult unless you are a Cop, Judge, DA, Politician or Movie Star or MAJOR campaign contributor to your local Sherriff's relection campaign fund.

IF you get caught carrying a concealed Handgun Without a CCW permit, it is a FELONY: UNLESS (a.) the handgun is registered in your name, (b.) you are not a gang member, and (c.) it is your FIRST time. Then it is a MISDEMEANOR but a "wobbler"..so IF you are convicted of another crime in the future the "wobbler" then counts as a FELONY strike against you. California has a "3 strikes your out" law.

ON the OTHER hand..if you are busted for carry a CONCEALED KNIFE then it IS a FELONY!!!!!


When transporting Firearms in a car, they MUST be UNLOADED, and KEPT IN a LOCKED container, Separate from Ammunition.

A LOADED MAGAZINE in a motor vehicle (with or WITHOUT the firearm) is considered to be a CONCEALED FIREARM.

Thats right, you could have NO GUNS in the car..just a loaded Magazine that fell under the seat and you forgot about..and your car gets searched. POW! you have a CONCEALED FIREARM in the CAR. Gotta a CCW? No? Go to Jail!

California is NOT a good place.

The BEST states to live in if you are a Gun owner are VT, KY, ID, AZ, WY.
AK, GA, TX, FL, MT are also good too.

 

[EOD Guy]

In California, no private sales can be made. They must go through an FFL holder, complete with a filled out 4473. (unless the gun in question was made before 1899 then it is considered to be an Antique)

Not completely true. Rifles and shotguns that are over 50 years old can be sold without going through a dealer.

If you want to BUY a handgun, you need a Handgun Buyer's Permit. To get the Permit you have to take a written test, a gun handling test, and give them your prints. Also the Buyer's permit becomes a "license" to possess any handgun you buy with it. If you get your buyer's permit revoked, they come to take away the pistol that you bought with it.

Again, not completely true. The handgun safety certificate (HSC) is only necessary to acquire the handgun. No permit is required to possess (yet).

Getting a Concealed Carry Permit in California is incredibly difficult unless you are a Cop, Judge, DA, Politician or Movie Star or MAJOR campaign contributor to your local Sherriff's relection campaign fund.

It depends on your county of residence. In a lot of the rural counties, issuance of a permit is almost "shall issue".

When transporting Firearms in a car, they MUST be UNLOADED, and KEPT IN a LOCKED container, Separate from Ammunition.

Not true. All firearms must be unloaded. Only handguns or "assault weapons" must be in locked containers.

A LOADED MAGAZINE in a motor vehicle (with or WITHOUT the firearm) is considered to be a CONCEALED FIREARM. Thats right, you could have NO GUNS in the car..just a loaded Magazine that fell under the seat and you forgot about..and your car gets searched. POW! you have a CONCEALED FIREARM in the CAR. Gotta a CCW? No? Go to Jail!

Completely untrue, although not recommended since a lot of LEO's seem to think it is illegal. It would only be illegal if you are engaged in criminal street gang activity.

The laws in this state are bad enough. We don't need to invent more.

 

[Russ]

I lived there for a long time and got out a year or so ago. Stay away from there unless you are a commie or a fascist. Actually, I think fascist's would be more comfortable there.

 

[Topgun]

You don't UNDERSTAND...California is a SPECIAL place!

We don't want any of your fruits or vegetables because we prefer to ELECT the former and RE-ELECT the latter.

And we don't want any of your nasty guns. YOUR guns can kill. Ours are SAFE!

Why I doubt I could kill anyone or anything with my .357 or my Mini 14. But.....if I did, it is reassuring that I could get a change of venue to Berkeley and get off to do it again.

That's why we pay so much for houses. YOUR house is probably surrounded by common old AIR. OUR houses are surrounded with a custom blend of components to keep us running smooth and clean.

 

[Jim Diver]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A LOADED MAGAZINE in a motor vehicle (with or WITHOUT the firearm) is considered to be a CONCEALED FIREARM. Thats right, you could have NO GUNS in the car..just a loaded Magazine that fell under the seat and you forgot about..and your car gets searched. POW! you have a CONCEALED FIREARM in the CAR. Gotta a CCW? No? Go to Jail!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Completely untrue, although not recommended since a lot of LEO's seem to think it is illegal. It would only be illegal if you are engaged in criminal street gang activity.

Not quite. There have been several convictions on the grounds that a person having ONLY a loaded mag constitutes a loaded firearm. The courts ruled that mags, being part of the gun, constitutes a gun even though the gun is not in the car. More crap and it is hard to believe but it is true from everything I have seen.

 

[EOD Guy]

Not quite. There have been several convictions on the grounds that a person having ONLY a loaded mag constitutes a loaded firearm. The courts ruled that mags, being part of the gun, constitutes a gun even though the gun is not in the car. More crap and it is hard to believe but it is true from everything I have seen./

Those convictions were overturned by the California Court of Appeals which stated that, in order for a person to be convicted, they also had to be in possession of a firearm which used that magazine or ammunition.

I cannot cite the case number, only what I was told by an attorney very familiar with California firearms laws. He also told me that it wasn't a good idea to carry a loaded magazine because of the misconception by many LEO's that it was illegal.

 

[Russ]

TopGun wrote:

"You don't UNDERSTAND...California is a SPECIAL place!
We don't want any of your fruits or vegetables because we prefer to ELECT the former and RE-ELECT the latter.

And we don't want any of your nasty guns. YOUR guns can kill. Ours are SAFE!

Why I doubt I could kill anyone or anything with my .357 or my Mini 14. But.....if I did, it is reassuring that I could get a change of venue to Berkeley and get off to do it again.

That's why we pay so much for houses. YOUR house is probably surrounded by common old AIR. OUR houses are surrounded with a custom blend of components to keep us running smooth and clean. "


That's too funny.