Questions about AR`s

[Master of Arms]

[I`ve tried to weigh out all of the options while searching for an AR. I see lots of advertisements in Shotgun News selling do-it-yourself kits made by different companies. I`ve read that the Colt kits were "all new" with no surplus parts but the Colt kits were a little different in certain areas than the original. I`m totally new to this type firearm so I don`t know whether to buy an AR or buy the kit. I know that I can assemble the kit so thats not my concern. My concerns are price, quality, accuracy of the barrel etc. I don`t want a piece of junk but I also don`t want to spend 3 or 4 grand. Is there such a thing as a middle of the road AR?[/B]

 

[Lonestar.45]

What's your price range, and what kind of AR do you want? Yes, you can build a quality kit for a decent price if you know where to shop and what you want. I researched that route and decided to buy a complete lower, a complete upper, and snapped them together and saved a lot of money, and never turned a wrench. Or, you can get a kit and put it all together yourself. You'll save a little money, but not as much as you might think.

For quality kits I'd look at Del-Ton first:

http://www.del-ton.com/Default.asp?Redirected=Y

and then J&T Distributing:

http://jtdistributing.net/index.html

Or, if you can pick up a complete lower locally, like I did, for around $230 or so, all you'd need to do then is shop around the 'net for a complete upper. A quality one goes for probably $400 on up. And you wouldn't have to rely on your building skills! Worked for me. Do your research and figure out what kind you want first, then go from there. Good luck.

 

[mbpautz762]

middle of the road?

I think a good middle-of-the-road AR15 would be CMMG (worth the wait!). I'm still pretty new with the things, but my last one was a kit from M&A Parts. It was a good shooter, but not much of a looker. dead-reliable, no nonsense rifle - and I only paid about 500-600 total, including lower. I thought it was a great value, but I wanted to try something new (and closer to military spec) this time, so I bought a complete CMMG 18" rifle for a hair over $900 bucks.
not as expensive as the LMTs or Noveskes, but almost as good. The kicker for me was that it was going to cost almost as much to build my own rifle from QUALITY parts as it was going to be for the complete CMMG, and the CMMG came with 2 mags, a case, and lifetime warranty! I'm not familiar with the kits you mentioned though - it seems like a colt kit might be something to look into...

 

[mbpautz762]

one thing I forgot....when you do a build from scratch, you lose a lot of the savings purchasing the armorer tool and receiver block. I think both together are around 70 bucks. I agree with lonestar above....a good idea would be to buy the complete upper and lower separately and snap them together. none of the pain from assembling a kit, but you save on the 11% federal tax thing. I remember finding that I could save about a hundred bucks or more on a Rock River AR if I bought the two halves separately.

 

[brighamr]

I vote M&P. $850 for NIB flattop w/a case, 30 round mag, and sling.

 

[Master of Arms]

Great suggestions. One other think is the ammo. I do alot of reloading with my other rifles and handguns so I`ve been looking at the prices of reloading compared to surplus. The cheapest that I`ve found complete ammo is at Sierra Bullets. I think that they were around $220.00 per thousand. Is this a good price? Would I save much by reloading?

 

[Kino74]

Master of Arms, I don't know how comfortable you would be with a parts kit but if you feel uncomfortable with any assembling check out, DPMS, Bushmaster, Rock River Arms and Stag Arms and Swith and Wesson. Those are good solid AR15s out of the box.

If you want to biuld or assembler one, I like Del-ton, DPMS and PKfirearms.

 

[gunman42782]

I have two ARs, one a Bushmaster I bought new (and have since completely changed!) and a Double Star lower/Del-Ton upper I put together. I got several hundred dollors less in the build, and it is my favorite gun I own, and my favorite gun I ever owned.

 

[geophysicishooter]

Awesome. I've been wanting to start a thread very similar to this for over a week now but have been afraid of the "oh no, not another AR thread!" posters and the "use the search feature" guys..

I've been checking out various stashes of AR's here in town and asking questions to get a feel for what offers the best bang for the buck. Considering the options.. flat-top or carry handle? solid mount or detachable? iron sights or optical? with or without fwd assist? 16" or 20" bbl? what kind of flash suppressor? and then there's the whole stock issue.. I had no idea it would get so complicated.. all I wanted to do was kill zombies!?!?!

So I came to thinking that the configuration I'd most like to have would have flat top receiver, with iron sights (unsure of the correct term for that), 16" bbl, 6 pt stock, .223 and 5.56 compatible (but I'm sure I'll rarely if ever run much 5.56x45). I'm unsure about the fwd assist issue and I have little to no practical knowledge of flash suppressors..

I have considered the upper/lower separate option but not real sure how best to go about it...

anyone have any advice?

sorry if this seems like a thread-jacking attempt but I dread to think what vegetables would come from the crowd if I started a new thread on essentially the same topic..

 

[sernv99]

same here. I just relocated to good ole VA and it's like the wild west here (I'm originally from the northeast where gun laws are a lot stricter). I'm looking at the AR's but near me, they are costing about $900-$1000 + for a basic AR. Are they really worth that much? ***!!

 

[strat81]

The cheapest that I`ve found complete ammo is at Sierra Bullets.

I don't think Sierra makes loaded ammo. Unless there is another Sierra out there.

Don't expect to find new brass-cased ammo for less than $300 per case. Standard 55gr FMJ stuff should be around $350, depending on brand. The sky is the limit if you want heavy OTM stuff.

 

[Avenger29]

o I came to thinking that the configuration I'd most like to have would have flat top receiver, with iron sights (unsure of the correct term for that), 16" bbl, 6 pt stock, .223 and 5.56 compatible (but I'm sure I'll rarely if ever run much 5.56x45). I'm unsure about the fwd assist issue and I have little to no practical knowledge of flash suppressors..

I just saved myself the headache of trying to choose stuff and went with an LMT Defender lower and I will be buying an LMT upper. Or you can go with a slightly cheaper lower (my dealer's Rock River lowers were $40 cheaper than his LMT lowers). I went with the LMT for the high quality internals and the milspec stock extension tube, so I can add any stock later...

LMT makes top quality stuff. Colt is too expensive for me, but LMT provides 98% of the quality for a lot cheaper (my lower cost $340, the upper will cost $485, plus a bolt at $120 and charging handle and handguards for a bit more. Plus, my dealer will get me a detachable carry handle for cheap.

 

[Master of Arms]

I don't think Sierra makes loaded ammo. Unless there is another Sierra out there.

Exactly correct. My mistake. I did the searching at 2:00 a.m. so cut me a little slack. LOL So where would be the best place for cheap ammo and would reloading save much $$$?

 

[MassMark]

Call or E-Mail Jon Kruger at Anvil Arms and be done with it. Build it yourself, or have Jon build it - he's got the goods and the knowledge to guide you through the process... www.anvilarms.com

 

[AR-15 Rep]

Most AR's that are in kit form are pretty much assembled except for the lower receiver, or at least that is the way I sell them. The price depends on what options you would like to install. Basic kits are a great start but keep in mind, if you order 1 piece free float handguards_ the front sight tower has to come off to replace them. If you order a forged A-2 front sight tower- you will have to change it to put flip up front sights-also, if you want a railed gas block etc. I guess there are many options out there to choose from but I always suggest to start basic with the end goal in mind, meaning if you are going to put optics on it, order the A-3 right off and the railed gas block. Then you can add other options as you go.

 

[SSN Vet]

+1 for Anvil arms...

I put a Delton carbine kit on a Anvil lower and have a nice AR for ~$650

Assembling the lower is very easy!

 

[J Star]

Yeah, I found out about Del-Ton from reading THR, and they carry the lower I was looking at anyway. (DPMS) I was considering buying an M&P15 with the rebate, but putting a complete lower together with an upper is so much cheaper, AND I can configure the lower on Del-Ton so that I get the stock and grip I want right off the bat. (And therefore save more money, since I won't have to replace the stock that comes with the M&P)

Right now I'm just looking for a nice DPMS upper in .223 that comes with everything. (Saw M1 in Shotgun News, but the bolt carrier and charging handle don't come with their uppers. Huh? Gee, that cheap looking price is great until you realize you need to spend another $150 to get the parts to shoot the gun!)

 

[PCFlorida]

++1 for Jon from Anvil Arms. He is very well regarded on this board, ARFCOM and others. Oh, by me as well, I have 2 of his AR's. He is very cool to deal with.

 

[Kino74]

same here. I just relocated to good ole VA and it's like the wild west here (I'm originally from the northeast where gun laws are a lot stricter). I'm looking at the AR's but near me, they are costing about $900-$1000 + for a basic AR. Are they really worth that much? ***!!

Short answer: YES.

The sad part is $900 -1000 is actually towards the lower end of the cost scale unless one builds or assembles their own rifle.

 

[RockyMtnTactical]

Stag Arms, best bang for the buck out there.

 

[Avenger29]

The sad part is $900 -1000 is actually towards the lower end of the cost scale unless one builds or assembles their own rifle.

You can get pretty high quality for that price. It will be a plain rifle, though.

Check out the new Charles Daly ARs. Getting good press on M4Carbine.net. Might be a while before you can get one.

LMT makes a good rifle, but kinda limited in options (ya get a 16 inch carbine, and that's about it)

Stag Arms is OK (and you can get a lefty AR from them).

CMMG.

S&W.

ARs are expensive. You can buy a cheap Vulcan, but it's a total POS. Once you get over the $700-800 hump, you start getting quality. But many store dealers aren't going to be very favorable in pricing. They know they can sell a cheaper, lower quality rifle to those who do not do their research. I mean, you hear of Colt, DPMS, Armalite, and Bushmaster as the big ones, and maybe Stag or Rock River. You do not hear about LMT or Sabre Defense or Sully or Noveske or any number of other smaller, yet very high quality manufactorers. So it's very worthwhile to do your research. And then there are many manufactorers that do not make a whole rifle (but instead, make say an upper that is high quality).

Buying the upper and lower seperatly can save you some. All you have to do to put them together is put in two pins. Or building your own lower from a parts kit and mating it to the upper...

I mean, why buy an overpriced DPMS when for a hundred or so more, you could have bought an LMT?

 

[Kino74]

You can get pretty high quality for that price. It will be a plain rifle, though.

Check out the new Charles Daly ARs. Getting good press on M4Carbine.net. Might be a while before you can get one.

LMT makes a good rifle, but kinda limited in options (ya get a 16 inch carbine, and that's about it)

Stag Arms is OK (and you can get a lefty AR from them).

CMMG.

S&W.

ARs are expensive. You can buy a cheap Vulcan, but it's a total POS. Once you get over the $700-800 hump, you start getting quality. But many store dealers aren't going to be very favorable in pricing. They know they can sell a cheaper, lower quality rifle to those who do not do their research. I mean, you hear of Colt, DPMS, Armalite, and Bushmaster as the big ones, and maybe Stag or Rock River. You do not hear about LMT or Sabre Defense or Sully or Noveske or any number of other smaller, yet very high quality manufactorers. So it's very worthwhile to do your research. And then there are many manufactorers that do not make a whole rifle (but instead, make say an upper that is high quality).

Buying the upper and lower seperatly can save you some. All you have to do to put them together is put in two pins. Or building your own lower from a parts kit and mating it to the upper...

I mean, why buy an overpriced DPMS when for a hundred or so more, you could have bought an LMT?

I agree mostly with you. I have had several ARs and my best one was a built from parts. For 900-1000 you can get a bushmaster, rra or stag arms all of which are great rifles and definitely possess IMHO a better value than Colt. I await to be burned as a herectic for saying that but its been my experience. I judge a rifle's virtue by its ability to perform and not by its name.

Honestly on Ar15s, I feel that if one wants to get the best value along with everything they want on that rifle, it is much more cost effective to build. By the time some one buys a AR15 and you know keeping it "stock" is quite hard, that by the time they are done, they would have paid insane amounts of cash.