Questions for Open-Carry state residents

[NavyLCDR]

Open carry is legal in my state but people have been arrested/fined for it but the arrest was understandable when a guy is walking around a major city with a fully loaded AK and a history of mental illness and another was a guy open carring a holstered pistol in front of a deli the workers called the cops and the guy had a cc permit and they told him to conceal it which he refused to do and was issued a citation

What was he cited for? You just said open carry is legal in your state. What law was the guy in front of the deli breaking? And what does "fully loaded" have to do with anything? What does that even mean? If the man had a history of mental illness that would prevent him from legally owning a firearm then it would also prevent him from legally carrying it, open or concealed. It doesn't have anything to do with legal open carry.

Both individuals were cited for violating RCW 9.41.270:
RCW 9.41.270
Weapons apparently capable of producing bodily harm — Unlawful carrying or handling — Penalty — Exceptions.

(1) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry, exhibit, display, or draw any firearm, dagger, sword, knife or other cutting or stabbing instrument, club, or any other weapon apparently capable of producing bodily harm, in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons.

Loaded or not does not matter.

ALL of the elements of 270 must be met. In the case of the guy with the AK-47 the Court ruled that walking down a residential street briskly, not making eye conctact with any other persons, at night, and the fact that emergency personnel felt his actions warranted alarm met all the elements of "in a manner", "under circumstances" and "at a time and place".

In the case of the guy in front of the deli: it was 10:30 at night (closing was 11:00pm), the street was deserted during a blizzard. The police were actually eating in the deli and noticed the guy out front. They approached him and he refused to show ID. The court ruled again that ALL the elements were met. His case is still under appeal.

Now, if you take my case: eating dinner at a restaurant at 6:30pm and someone calls the cops about a MWAG. I was NOT cited because the police knew that NONE of the elements would be met of 9.41.270. "In a manner" would not be met, my gun was in a holster on my belt. Just like the cops' guns. "under circumstances" would not be met, I was eating dinner in a restaurant during dinner time. There was no argument or fight or dispute occurring. "at a time and place", again would not be met. I was eating dinner in a restaurant at dinner time. That's what normally happens in a restaurant at dinner time.

"intent to intimidate" was not met - exactly who was I intending to intimidate? The person who called 911 had no idea who I was, and I had not approached them or talked to them. I was only doing what everyone else in the restaurant was doing...eating dinner. Nothing else. BTW, the MWAG caller was another anonymous customer and nobody from the restaurant. The restaurant management supports people's right to self defense.

"warrants alarm" was not met - just because someone IS alarmed, does not mean that alarm was warranted. The Washington Supreme Court has ruled on that one.

Refusing to show ID is not, by itself, suspicious in Washington State, because a person is only required to provide ID for the purposes of the police officer actually writing the citation, and there is no criminal penatly, even then, for refusing to show ID (except when operating a motor vehicle and a Driver's License is requested.)

So, open carry is legal in Washington. But there is a statute that you can be cited with: however, there are a lot of elements that ALL must be met to be convicted.

 

[Birch Knoll]

So if I'm running down the street, the Officer can tell me to walk and if I don't he's going to cite me because people may think I just robbed a store?

I don't believe I said that. I said a police offer can just about always find something to cite you for. I gave some examples of catch-all violations that are easy to abuse. If you're saying that cops shouldn't do such things, then you're perfectly correct. If you're saying that they never do such things, I think you are sorely mistaken.

 

[hermannr]

My first OC experience was at the LoggerRodeo in Sedro Wolley, WA back in July 1970. They had teh center of town closed off for a quick draw compitition. After the compitition, i talked to one of the competitors and asked about all the people OC all over town...I was told, Oc is legal, no permit necessary in WA. Went home strapped on my big Colt revolver, walked all over town, into every store that was open, the bank... everywhere, no one noticed...probably because there were several hundred people strapped up that day.

I have had one contact with a Sheriff's Deputy. Same big Colt as before. It was a two word conversation: Deputy: "Hunting?" Me "Yep". That was after someone had called MWAG when I was in a grocery store purchasing supplies. Contacted outside loading supplies into my camper. Wasn't the store owner, anyway, the Deputy went into the store to look for the caller to tell her OC was legal.

Granted, I do not OC in Seattle etc, because I don't go to Seattle if I can help it. But Skagit Co is not a problem. Lived in Skagit until 2005...now we live in Okanogan Co. no problem here either.

If you are not a nervous Nelly, no one notices. There are some places tthat do not want you to carry, few, but some. I just don't patronize them.