queston for the police about civilian carry

[allaroundhunter]

What I mean is the law about notifying still stands. However the language in the law that specifies the penalty was removed. So basically it's illegal not to notify an LEO that you're carrying, but there's absolutely no penalty for not doing so.

We have this because the castle doctrine has been extended to one's vehicle, and therefore a CHL is not needed for a person to carry concealed while inside a vehicle. So even if someone is legally carrying, they don't legally have to notify (if they are not a CHL holder).

 

[Grmlin]

@Johnny Doller, good link, I guess I'll use some of this down time I've aquired to get upto date on the regs

@Bigfatdave, I have a sissy bar back that works with the black rifles but it's a pain to break down the .270 and forget it with a lever action. You wouldn't believe some of the ideas I've had.

From what I've seen myself and read from here and other forums most LE's don't have a problem with legal carry, but we all have bad days. You may have to talk to one LE but they have to deal with multiple possible threats every day. Are there people who abuse thier authority yes but it's an extremly small percentage and there are ways to fix that (legal). If I'm treated with curtesy I reply in same. Along time back I was stopped (10 over posted) and the officer was just fuming, late at night tired, when he took a break in berating me for my speed all I said was "one of those days" and I literaly heard him deflate and the rest of the conversation was very proffesional. He gave me a warning ticket and told me about deer up the road. They have a job to do and want to get home to thier families just as much as anyone else.

 

[P-32]

I just retired from L/E for health reasons. I viewed the carry permit people as potential back up. I worked in a rural City where I might be the only officer on for quite a few miles around. I knew the permit holders had their backgrounds checked. Almost all would not do something stupid which could cost them their permit. (very few crimes are committed by permit holders) It’s not a requirement here in Washington State to tell the officer you are packing concealed. Those who did let me know they were carrying often times found themselves cut loose with a verbal warning. I felt like by telling me they were armed and had a permit was a sign of respect for me. I appreciated it and thus the reward. I still had my limits though. I could deal with an infraction but criminal matters were another story. But you know what, I never arrested a permit holder or had a reason to.

 

[NavyLCDR]

I would not have handed it over under those circumstances. I might have asked him to leave my property if he wasn't going to help.

Police only have the right to disarm you for officer safety if they have RAS of a crime being committed and there is RAS to believe the subject is armed and dangerous. I too would have told the LEO to leave my property. Maybe he felt he had RAS to believe you had committed arson....

RAS = Reasonable Articulable Suspicion

 

[rem22long40x]

In Texas you are required to show your C.H.L. with your D.L. weather you are carring or not . and to not do so can be means of a 5 year revocation and a fine. all thow you are not required to have a C.H.L. to have a consealed gun in your car.

 

[allaroundhunter]

In Texas you are required to show your C.H.L. with your D.L. weather you are carring or not . and to not do so can be means of a 5 year revocation and a fine. all thow you are not required to have a C.H.L. to have a consealed gun in your car.

The penalty for not informing has been removed.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

In Texas you are required to show your C.H.L. with your D.L. weather you are carring or not . and to not do so can be means of a 5 year revocation and a fine. all thow you are not required to have a C.H.L. to have a consealed gun in your car.

GC §411.205. REQUIREMENT TO DISPLAY LICENSE. (a) If a license holder is carrying a handgun on or about the license holder's person when a magistrate or a peace officer demands that the license holder display identification, the license holder shall display both the license holder's driver's license or identification certificate issued by the department and the license holder's handgun license.

Are you sure about that?

 

[thefamcnaj]

My only encounter, involving a Leo was positive. However it didn't involve a traffic stop.
I called to make a report because the vacant house beside mine had been vandalised. All the Windows had been broken out by neighborhood teenagers.
Any way when the cop arrived I was unarmed.. He asked to see my id because I was the one making the complaint. I didn't show my cwp because I wasn't armed. After I walked away I was concerned that I may have violated the law because SC is a duty to inform state.
So I walked back to the cop told him I had a question. So I said,"Sir I am unarmed but I do have a cwp". "When I showed you my id, should I have disclosed this to you?"
He replied, "No, if you are unarmed, you don't have to mention your cwp".
I then asked how do you feel about cwp among civilians?
He said,"I think its great, and all responceble law abiding citizens should have one"

 

[Rob G]

Originally Posted by rem22long40x
In Texas you are required to show your C.H.L. with your D.L. weather you are carring or not . and to not do so can be means of a 5 year revocation and a fine.

You don't have to show your CHL if you're not carrying.

There's also no penalty for not showing your CHL. Back in 2009 the Texas legislature wanted to remove this requirement from the law. However due to the screwy nature of the TX legislative process it was going to be hard to do, so instead they just removed the penalty portion of the law. So it is illegal to not show your CHL when you're carrying. However, there isn't any penalty for not doing it.

We have this because the castle doctrine has been extended to one's vehicle, and therefore a CHL is not needed for a person to carry concealed while inside a vehicle.

Actually the law that allows us to carry in a car without a CHL is an older law that has nothing to do with our Castle Doctrine.

 

[Flintknapper]

We have this because the castle doctrine has been extended to one's vehicle, and therefore a CHL is not needed for a person to carry concealed while inside a vehicle.

The Castle Doctrine (in Texas) does extend to your vehicle (or any other place you have a legal right to be) BUT it has no connection to lawful citizens (not otherwise restricted) carrying a firearm in their vehicle. That is covered by the Motorist Protection Act. It is the MPA that gives the authority, not the Castle Doctrine.

So even if someone is legally carrying, they don't legally have to notify (if they are not a CHL holder).

Technically...even a CHL is carrying under the authority of the MPA, but since the law to inform (when carrying and I.D. is demanded) remains in effect, you still have to, THOUGH there is no longer any penalty for not doing so.

Lovely...huh? Come on Texas....lets get with it. I am really starting to lose faith in our law makers (legislators) when they can't seem to pass laws that address the ENTIRE issue.

 

[allaroundhunter]

Technically...even a CHL is carrying under the authority of the MPA, but since the law to inform (when carrying and I.D. is demanded) remains in effect, you still have to, THOUGH there is no longer any penalty for not doing so.

Sorry, I meant that I can legally carry in a vehicle without a CHL, and then if stopped I am not legally required to inform the officer that I am carrying. Whereas someone who does have a CHL would be required to inform the LEO if in the same situation.

 

[av8usn]

Most of the responses seem positive; just be thankful you do not live in the "People's Republic" of Illinois or Maryland or New York.

 

[Ranger Roberts]

In PA I have no way of knowing if you have a ccw. It is a separate card issued through the Sheriffs dept. I verify that your card is good through a serial number in the corner of your card (I live and work in a fairly rural county, it might be different in other parts of the state). I really appreciate when people immediately declare that they have a firearm though, even if it is in the trunk. Traffic stops can get crazy real fast, and limiting the amount of surprises is always appreciated. Now if you are carrying concealed without a permit, we have a whole other issue!

 

[Agsalaska]

I have never run into that situation. However in Las Vegas where I live we had a rookie LE handcuff and disarm a guy who had a CC permit a few years ago at night outside of hs business. If I remember right he was up there investigating some wind damage to his roof or something but there was no crime or threat of crime at the time. She asked for his ID. He showed the ID and CC card. She cuffed him, disarmed him, and then took the cuffs off. He filed a complaint that the newspaper picked up on and received a half hearted apology from the Sherriff's office. It went something like 'We reserve the right to do that at any time but it should not be commonpractice especially in such an instance.'

We have to register all of our handguns with Clark County and get this stupid card for each one. Most of the cops tell me that it is a complete waist of time because they never find registered guns at a crime scene. They will tell me that as they call the gun in that I just carried into their station. I had one guy pay pretty close attention to one pistol because I think he was interested in it.

I also play golf with a local detective. He says he could really care less. Registration, Concealed carry, etc dont change the game for him at all. The bad guys will still have guns and they are not going to tell you anyway. That logic has always made a lot of sense to me.

 

[Ranger Roberts]

The civilians without any clue will generally be nervous and let you know right away. I have only come across one (that I know of!) that I found upon searching and claimed to be clueless. Let's face it though, you bought the gun, you know if your state requires a ccw. Criminals tend to start getting fidgety right away. They usually stash it somewhere before we approach the car and with our lights on them we see their hands and body movement stashing something. More often then not it's weed, but sometimes its a gun. A lot of people tend to try to shield it by sitting awkwardly or facing the gun away from you. I'll be honest, there is a lot of little things that people do that gives them away, and after a few years of patrol experience you pick up on them.
I'd also like to say that I, and many if not most of my fellow officers are pro-carry. If you legally have it, no problem. I would like to see more inexperienced shooters take classes on it though. As a combat vet, I've seen very well trained men crumble under the pressure when a gun is pulled. A little training for people that conceal carry and don't have a ton of real world experience could possibly go a long way.

 

[oldbear]

In all of the states I've lived and worked in have had a duty to inform officers. When I was on the street I always appreciated a heads up from the CCW holder. Armed or not as long as someone obeyed the laws within reason, we did just fine. My only gripe were the FEW who did not understand that a CCW permit was just that, and having a CCW permit did not give them full law enforcement authority.

 

[Orion8472]

I got pulled over for having expired plates. I was so shocked . . . that I didn't notice and have them updated in time. . . that I spaced on the fact that I had my gun on me at that time. He told me to get it done on Monday [it was a Friday night].

Does their onboard computer tell them who has a CCW?

 

[Steve CT]

My state does not require me to inform, I believe it would be better for me to inform, simply because my wallet is in my right (strong side carry) hand rear pocket, and I really don't want any misunderstandings.

Window down, both hands on the wheel in plain sight, "I have a Carry Permit and I'm armed, my wallet is in my back pocket, near my pistol". Every LEO I've ever asked about this (well over a dozen) says that this is exactly how they would like this handled.

 

[Deus Machina]

I'm happy that Florida does not require us to inform, even though I would.

Without trying to cause a debate, I don't think it should be a law, but I do think it's a good idea if there's any chance it might matter. Especially since the officer would appreciate it and it might get you a warning instead of a ticket.

 

[Mr Woody]

I am a retired LEO from a state that did not have a requirement to notify. But it did tie the carry permit to the computer system and your driver's license. After calling in a vehicle stop dispatch would often have run the registered owner and told me about the CCW permit before I got out. Always knew about them after running a driver's license check.

After CCW permits where made shall issue and they were attached to the driver's license I at first asked if they were carrying. After a few months I gave up caring and did not even bring it up on simple contact and traffic stop. If someone told me they were carrying with or without a permit (legal in a vehicle in my state) I would ask them where it was and suggest they just leave it there.

I suspect there is a difference in how the officer treats the situation based on the officer's age and experience with people. This is a generalization: The young college grad fresh out of training will be much more aggressive than the military veteran / more experienced officer.

If your stopped for a minor infraction in your blue pickup the officer may have in mind that blue pickup that just knocked over the local gas station. If you think the officer is over reacting I suggest you cooperate with him. Whatever his reason for being cross, you may be able to teach him that a CCW person may be a friend in the long run.

 

[Hardware]

I got pulled over for speeding with my OC gun on the dashboard, as Delaware law requires. Aside from putting my hands on my knees instead of at 10 and 2 o'clock on the wheel, nothing changed. Of course, I had pulled over, shut off my truck and had my flashers on with the window rolled down before the cop pulled out into traffic. The state police officer never even mentioned the gun. He even wrote me up for 60 in a 55. I was doing a bit more than that.

 

[NavyLCDR]

After CCW permits where made shall issue and they were attached to the driver's license I at first asked if they were carrying. After a few months I gave up caring and did not even bring it up on simple contact and traffic stop.

I have an honest question, that maybe you can answer for me. You pull someone over. Go to the window, obtain the driver's license, insurance and registration, go back and THEN find out they have a CCW permit. Upon your return to the subject's window you THEN ask if they are carrying a gun? Did I understand your process above correctly?

So, my question honestly is, why would the knowledge that the person has a CCW suddenly raise a concern about a firearm causing you to ask, when before you found out they had a CCW there was not enough concern to ask? The knowledge of the CCW permit should indicate that any firearm carried or transported by the subject is 99% likely to be legal. I understand from your post that you changed your habits, but I am just curious as to what the thought process was when you did feel the need to ask AND why not just automatically at first contact?

 

[Formula94]

Far as I am aware, in Minnesota there is no law that says you have to declare whether you are armed or not -- unless the cop asks you. Thought it was the same in all states.

A buddy of mine is a Washington County (MN) sheriff's deputy and he actually told me that it shows up when they run your plates if you have a permit to carry. Not sure if he was just BS'ing me or not.

 

[JustinJ]

The opinions of LE on this board are not going to be representative of LE on the whole. This is a board for gun enthusiasts and most gun enthusiasts view concealed carry favorably. Many cops are not gun enthusiasts as i can attest to by the like new condition of LE trade in guns i've purchased, minus the holster wear. I don't mean to imply most cops are against concealed carry but their points of views are far more diverse than what you will find of LE here.

 

[NavyLCDR]

A buddy of mine is a Washington County (MN) sheriff's deputy and he actually told me that it shows up when they run your plates if you have a permit to carry. Not sure if he was just BS'ing me or not.

How can a police officer tell who is driving the vehicle from the license plates? I have one vehicle registered in my name that it is a 90% guarantee that the driver won't be me, the person whose name is returned by running the plates.