cassandrasdaddy
Member
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2006
- Messages
- 4,206
"I go through the same background checks as them, "
can you support that?
can you support that?
Traffic Stop WHY Is It Safer To Inform
- Thread starter Treo
- Start date
- Status
Oh more then a little heatedness. I've watched this debate over the years change from "I've got a CCW permit and that makes me a certified good guy." to "It's unsafe for anyone but me to handle my gun."
No one on the other side of the debate is willing to acknowledge that anyone can be capable of flying off the handle when faced with something as minor as a traffic violation and that the officer has no guarantee that someone he never has seen before is in fact a "certified good guy".
I read many of these same members who are always on the other side of this issue talk about how careful they live their lives in the Strategies and Tactics forum, yet they insist that a police officer take a chance they never would take in the name of personal freedom, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, the right for them not to feel like a criminal or the right not to have anyone else touch their weapon.
If I were dictator, no state would have a concealed carry permit, and no state would forbid the carrying of any weapon. All the permit system does is inconvenience the law abiding citizen. The criminals carry anyway. If we didn't have permits, we wouldn't have any laws requiring people to tell the police they are armed and this wouldn't be an issue at all.
Jeff
As a retired, mostly traffic, officer here is my 2cents worth...
Never volunteer anything to police that is not required.
If stopped have what you need (license, registration, ins, whatever) ready BEFORE the officer gets out of his vehicle.
Have windows on officers' approaching side open.
Have your hands visible on wheel or dash.
Understand that people die from doing stupid, rash, ignorant things.....
From my experience less than half of 'cops' are gun people. Many qualify only when necessary, and keep their service weapon on a shelf in the closet when off duty.
Respect the officer, unless you are given good reason not to, and remember the officer has the power of law behind him. And it may take the courts a long, expensive time to iron out any 'on street' confrontations (also the police have the legal system behind them and You must pay time and legal fees) Until you win, Maybe.................
Never volunteer anything to police that is not required.
If stopped have what you need (license, registration, ins, whatever) ready BEFORE the officer gets out of his vehicle.
Have windows on officers' approaching side open.
Have your hands visible on wheel or dash.
Understand that people die from doing stupid, rash, ignorant things.....
From my experience less than half of 'cops' are gun people. Many qualify only when necessary, and keep their service weapon on a shelf in the closet when off duty.
Respect the officer, unless you are given good reason not to, and remember the officer has the power of law behind him. And it may take the courts a long, expensive time to iron out any 'on street' confrontations (also the police have the legal system behind them and You must pay time and legal fees) Until you win, Maybe.................
deaconkharma
Member
Blckhwk41
Thats the very thing. I do that every time. grab my stuff and have it ready with window down and the stuff out the window so he can get it without actually coming up to parallel with me. he can stay behind me and cover me if need be. night time? same deal with interior light on.
On to the going off potential of me or my firearm as was mentioned by others:
To assume I'm going to go off after tactically disadvantaging myself (by identifying) is not realistic. To have a pocket firearm go off while being fumbled for by someone unfamiliar with position of or firearm class/type of firearm is much more likely.
I'm really about to make LEO (and for those that are good thanks for what you do) people angry but since it was mentioned, "flying off the handle", we could look at the statistics on who flies off the handle more, CCW holders I doubt would even come close. I haven't seen one case of an identified CCW/CWP holder going off on a cop but fair is fair how many news reports have we seen cops off the handle? My state highway patrol has had quite a year with officers charged and others quit or fired and the head replaced. Like I said I don't wanna make this about that but when it is brought up I think statistically I'd like to be able to defend my position without someone getting mad or blocking me or locking the thread down. Flying off the handle was mentioned and I humbly submit my case to look at both sides.
I've had this argument with my buddies, one who is Pelion (SC) PD, and one who is South Congaree PD, and one state constable, (my father) so let me qualify that I don't "hate cops". Police officers can be the best people in the world or the worst, just like anyone else. I just want folks to recognize that as my argument before going off on me.
That being said about the individuals involved, (and hopefully we can either agree to the common human fallacies of ALL or at least agree to disagree civilly without any hostility) a main concern actually that I didn't get to expound on was, since this hasn't been a common occurance with me getting disarmed is, what if higher ups have started mandating this of their obediant street cops as a means of harrassment and political use? Remember he was new and young and kept mentioning his TO said so. higher up the chain are politicians not police so where'd this come from I wonder?
Here's where we agree "If I were dictator, no state would have a concealed carry permit, and no state would forbid the carrying of any weapon. All the permit system does is inconvenience the law abiding citizen. The criminals carry anyway. If we didn't have permits, we wouldn't have any laws requiring people to tell the police they are armed and this wouldn't be an issue at all. "
CassDaddy a quick browse of SLED website:
SLED conducts an extensive background examination of all applicants prior to a CWP being issued. To obtain an application, you may write: SLED Regulatory Department, P.O. Box 21398, Columbia, S.C. 29221. Learn more at the Concealed Weapons Permit page.
excerpt from SC CWP law: (B) Upon submission of the items required by subsection (A) of this section, SLED must conduct or facilitate a local, state, and federal fingerprint review of the applicant. SLED must also conduct a background check of the applicant through notification to and input from the sheriff of the county where the applicant resides or if the applicant is a qualified nonresident, where the applicant owns real property in this State.
From time to time, job positions (sworn and non-sworn positions) become available at SLED and are routinely posted or advertised in an appropriate manner as required by South Carolina law and regulations. All applicants, regardless of position, must undergo a rigorous background examination. For an employment application, contact: SLED, c/o Human Resources Department, P.O. Box 21398, Columbia, S.C. 29221.
Visit the state jobs website
Ok to the state jobs website---
Job Title: Highway Patrol Trooper
Agency: Department of Public Safety
Opening Date: Mon. 06/02/08
Closing Date/Time: Continuous
State Salary Range: $24,881.00 - $46,033.00 annually
Agency Hiring Range: Min: $29,910.00 Max:$31,154.00
Job Type: FTE - Full-Time
Location: Statewide, South Carolina
Normal Work Schedule: Rotating Shifts
Highway Patrol Trooper Supplemental Questionnaire
*1. For criminal record checks, please list your social security number.
*2. For criminal record checks, please list your date of birth.
*3. Do you have a high school diploma or G.E.D.?
Yes
No
* Required Question
all of this looks like local state and federal background checks in both LEO and CWP.
Thats the very thing. I do that every time. grab my stuff and have it ready with window down and the stuff out the window so he can get it without actually coming up to parallel with me. he can stay behind me and cover me if need be. night time? same deal with interior light on.
On to the going off potential of me or my firearm as was mentioned by others:
To assume I'm going to go off after tactically disadvantaging myself (by identifying) is not realistic. To have a pocket firearm go off while being fumbled for by someone unfamiliar with position of or firearm class/type of firearm is much more likely.
I'm really about to make LEO (and for those that are good thanks for what you do) people angry but since it was mentioned, "flying off the handle", we could look at the statistics on who flies off the handle more, CCW holders I doubt would even come close. I haven't seen one case of an identified CCW/CWP holder going off on a cop but fair is fair how many news reports have we seen cops off the handle? My state highway patrol has had quite a year with officers charged and others quit or fired and the head replaced. Like I said I don't wanna make this about that but when it is brought up I think statistically I'd like to be able to defend my position without someone getting mad or blocking me or locking the thread down. Flying off the handle was mentioned and I humbly submit my case to look at both sides.
I've had this argument with my buddies, one who is Pelion (SC) PD, and one who is South Congaree PD, and one state constable, (my father) so let me qualify that I don't "hate cops". Police officers can be the best people in the world or the worst, just like anyone else. I just want folks to recognize that as my argument before going off on me.
That being said about the individuals involved, (and hopefully we can either agree to the common human fallacies of ALL or at least agree to disagree civilly without any hostility) a main concern actually that I didn't get to expound on was, since this hasn't been a common occurance with me getting disarmed is, what if higher ups have started mandating this of their obediant street cops as a means of harrassment and political use? Remember he was new and young and kept mentioning his TO said so. higher up the chain are politicians not police so where'd this come from I wonder?
Here's where we agree "If I were dictator, no state would have a concealed carry permit, and no state would forbid the carrying of any weapon. All the permit system does is inconvenience the law abiding citizen. The criminals carry anyway. If we didn't have permits, we wouldn't have any laws requiring people to tell the police they are armed and this wouldn't be an issue at all. "
CassDaddy a quick browse of SLED website:
SLED conducts an extensive background examination of all applicants prior to a CWP being issued. To obtain an application, you may write: SLED Regulatory Department, P.O. Box 21398, Columbia, S.C. 29221. Learn more at the Concealed Weapons Permit page.
excerpt from SC CWP law: (B) Upon submission of the items required by subsection (A) of this section, SLED must conduct or facilitate a local, state, and federal fingerprint review of the applicant. SLED must also conduct a background check of the applicant through notification to and input from the sheriff of the county where the applicant resides or if the applicant is a qualified nonresident, where the applicant owns real property in this State.
From time to time, job positions (sworn and non-sworn positions) become available at SLED and are routinely posted or advertised in an appropriate manner as required by South Carolina law and regulations. All applicants, regardless of position, must undergo a rigorous background examination. For an employment application, contact: SLED, c/o Human Resources Department, P.O. Box 21398, Columbia, S.C. 29221.
Visit the state jobs website
Ok to the state jobs website---
Job Title: Highway Patrol Trooper
Agency: Department of Public Safety
Opening Date: Mon. 06/02/08
Closing Date/Time: Continuous
State Salary Range: $24,881.00 - $46,033.00 annually
Agency Hiring Range: Min: $29,910.00 Max:$31,154.00
Job Type: FTE - Full-Time
Location: Statewide, South Carolina
Normal Work Schedule: Rotating Shifts
Highway Patrol Trooper Supplemental Questionnaire
*1. For criminal record checks, please list your social security number.
*2. For criminal record checks, please list your date of birth.
*3. Do you have a high school diploma or G.E.D.?
Yes
No
* Required Question
all of this looks like local state and federal background checks in both LEO and CWP.
Big Discussion!
The big point here is... How many times are any of us pulled over in a traffic stop?
In my case (already stated) once in twenty years.
I have taught vehicle stops.. This officer was not very friendly, he does not have to be, gave me a ticket, I know I was going over the limit.
End of incident, I never even thought of the 9mm on my right side, concealed under a shirt, my Wife did not look like a threat, I did not look like a threat.
I went for my traffic Court, very interesting, learned a few things I did not know.
The whole set up was a ticket issuing system, two Officers, two cars, parked in Funeral Home lot. This worked well with me, over a year ago, I still do 35MPH down the road in question, that wee Officer did his job, he probably has a short person syndrome! (about 5'3") that's why he gave me the ticket? or may be because I was speeding? This will be a mystery for ever, but I will still be careful going down that Ave.
Keep Safe.
The big point here is... How many times are any of us pulled over in a traffic stop?
In my case (already stated) once in twenty years.
I have taught vehicle stops.. This officer was not very friendly, he does not have to be, gave me a ticket, I know I was going over the limit.
End of incident, I never even thought of the 9mm on my right side, concealed under a shirt, my Wife did not look like a threat, I did not look like a threat.
I went for my traffic Court, very interesting, learned a few things I did not know.
The whole set up was a ticket issuing system, two Officers, two cars, parked in Funeral Home lot. This worked well with me, over a year ago, I still do 35MPH down the road in question, that wee Officer did his job, he probably has a short person syndrome! (about 5'3") that's why he gave me the ticket? or may be because I was speeding? This will be a mystery for ever, but I will still be careful going down that Ave.
Keep Safe.
I can't change the way the world is on my own so I to live with things the way they actually are.
Cops are understandably hinky about traffic stops because there are cases every year where cops get killed in traffic stops. I suspect more are killed by vehicles than by guns in traffic stops, but I don't know that to be a fact.
Do what you can to limit his fear so you can come home safely.
Cops are understandably hinky about traffic stops because there are cases every year where cops get killed in traffic stops. I suspect more are killed by vehicles than by guns in traffic stops, but I don't know that to be a fact.
Do what you can to limit his fear so you can come home safely.
cassandrasdaddy
Member
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2006
- Messages
- 4,206
il bob BINGO
old book zen and the arty of motorcycle maintenance has a section on getting pulled over humerous
deaconkarma if you believe that that you get the same background check they do before hiring a cop good luck. did they psych test you? check references?
old book zen and the arty of motorcycle maintenance has a section on getting pulled over humerous
deaconkarma if you believe that that you get the same background check they do before hiring a cop good luck. did they psych test you? check references?
Last edited:
SCKimberFan
Member
cassandrasdaddy said:
Huh?
How about some proper punctuation, paragraphs and the like. It makes it much easier to comprehend what you are trying to get across.
Huh?
How about some proper punctuation, paragraphs and the like. It makes it much easier to comprehend what you are trying to get across.
Actually in TX you must notify the police of your CHL status, and provide the CHL along with your DL when they request ID, only if you are carrying. You do not have to notify them you are carrying (although it's a reasonable assumption when you hand over your CHL).
deaconkharma
Member
the requirements
The psych test- none. polygraph only in some jurisdictions. references also a joke. how many of us say "hey dude i put you on my job app talk me up ok? " the background checks are identical.
The psych test- none. polygraph only in some jurisdictions. references also a joke. how many of us say "hey dude i put you on my job app talk me up ok? " the background checks are identical.
Drgong
Member
in my state you have to inform, so its moot...
Stevie-Ray
Member
Why don't you run for president? Already sounds better than our choices, now.
Duke Junior
member
But not when we cross that border to GA,TN or VA.
TStorm
Member
SCKimberfan: When did SC link to license? I was told they were talking about it, but that it was not linked when I took my course two years ago.
I know it is SC law to present permit when asked for identification when carrying, but what happens when you are not (I can't carry or leave in car @ work)? Linking the two sounds like the potential for even more problems when the LEO runs your license. The mere fact he finds this out through other means, even though you are not obligated to bring this up when not in possession of a firearm, could be used as cause to search.
"Your honor, he had a CWP and said nothing, so I thought he must be hiding something with regards to firearms."
I know it is SC law to present permit when asked for identification when carrying, but what happens when you are not (I can't carry or leave in car @ work)? Linking the two sounds like the potential for even more problems when the LEO runs your license. The mere fact he finds this out through other means, even though you are not obligated to bring this up when not in possession of a firearm, could be used as cause to search.
"Your honor, he had a CWP and said nothing, so I thought he must be hiding something with regards to firearms."
deaconkharma
Member
Tstorm
We don't have DL/CWP linked. I just asked my Pelion PD buddy to make sure. So when I carry in the glovebox, I'm safe from having to identify or being disarmed.
We don't have DL/CWP linked. I just asked my Pelion PD buddy to make sure. So when I carry in the glovebox, I'm safe from having to identify or being disarmed.
SCKimberFan
Member
Tstorm: Although I don't recall posting that they were linked, I am inclined to believe they are. Your CWP is printed/made at the DMV office in Blythewood. They use the same photo as your DL. The address shown on the back of your CWP is the DMV office in Blythewood. My presumption is that they are tied together, although I have not officially researched it myself.
If you are not carrying, why would you present your CWP?
deaconkarma: If you have a permit and your firearm is in the vehicle, why is it not on your side or wherever you carry it?
If you are not carrying, why would you present your CWP?
deaconkarma: If you have a permit and your firearm is in the vehicle, why is it not on your side or wherever you carry it?
SCKimberFan
Member
dalepres: Get a better fitting holster. Mine is on my side all day long. And I drive a great deal.
shooter_john
Member
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2005
- Messages
- 9
I understand that most cops aren't gun people, but I happen to be... Showing me your Pistol Permit will probably go along way in you not getting a ticket from me (but I'd lean toward not disclosing if you don't have to for the "big picture"). Same goes for respectful attitude and honesty. Jerks and Aholes get tickets, courteous and honest people usually don't... I go into 90% of my "routine" stops planning on NOT writing a ticket, then I let the stop-ee talk me into it.
As far as the "why is it safer if I tell" question, cops usually are not big fans of surprises.
As far as the "why is it safer if I tell" question, cops usually are not big fans of surprises.
I guess that I am kinda spoiled being here in southern Utah where you are the odd ball if you don't have your ccw. Most of the cops here are pro 2A or at the very least indifferent. Both times that I have had to inform LE that I was armed my permit was given the most brief of glances before given back. The second time it was given back with almost a "Yea, so?" kind of look.
TStorm
Member
I realize the same department is generating the card in SC, same photo, etc. The case, hypothetical or not, of linking the permit to license, or worse yet, a vehicle registration is very problematic to me.
I didn't say I would necessarily present a CWP to an officer when not carrying. I am concerned that if my permit status were to be divulged through a routine DL check, and the LEO did not already know, this could promp concern/suspicion/fear from Officer Friendly. Or as Shooter John pointed out..."Surprise." This would not be the time or place to have a theoretical discussion of firearms laws with a LEO.
What's the LEO opinion of this scenario?
I didn't say I would necessarily present a CWP to an officer when not carrying. I am concerned that if my permit status were to be divulged through a routine DL check, and the LEO did not already know, this could promp concern/suspicion/fear from Officer Friendly. Or as Shooter John pointed out..."Surprise." This would not be the time or place to have a theoretical discussion of firearms laws with a LEO.
What's the LEO opinion of this scenario?
bogie
Member
Tell y'all what...
I'd rather avoid a surprise situation.
And as for the cops on this board? Maybe some of them see some of the non-cops as being highly irresponsible, testosterone-thinking, walking (or driving) attitudes. For that matter, they probably see some cops the same way.
So you're driving stupid, you've got a "bad cop, no donut" bumper sticker on the back of your car, you make the cop tap on your window or try to play other games with him, when all he really wants to do is get off the road after giving you your stupid slip.
In case some of y'all haven't figured it out, people sometimes shoot at police. They don't know WHO might be in the car. It might be Bubba, on the run from robbin' his neighborhood likker store two states over, and he's vowed that he ain't gonna go back to no jail...
Jeff, where you work - maybe I'll look you up next time through (while I drive the speed limit) and buy you a tasty circular pastry...
I'd rather avoid a surprise situation.
And as for the cops on this board? Maybe some of them see some of the non-cops as being highly irresponsible, testosterone-thinking, walking (or driving) attitudes. For that matter, they probably see some cops the same way.
So you're driving stupid, you've got a "bad cop, no donut" bumper sticker on the back of your car, you make the cop tap on your window or try to play other games with him, when all he really wants to do is get off the road after giving you your stupid slip.
In case some of y'all haven't figured it out, people sometimes shoot at police. They don't know WHO might be in the car. It might be Bubba, on the run from robbin' his neighborhood likker store two states over, and he's vowed that he ain't gonna go back to no jail...
Jeff, where you work - maybe I'll look you up next time through (while I drive the speed limit) and buy you a tasty circular pastry...
Old School
Member
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2008
- Messages
- 307
TexasRifleman.
I hope that is photoshop! 110mph and you are taking pictures?
I hope that is photoshop! 110mph and you are taking pictures?
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
