Traffic stop/you're CCW-legal & cop wants your gun ....

[Detachment Charlie]

It hasn't happened to me, yet. But here in FL, I believe that when they run your DL, the fact that you have a CCW will come up. Also, every time I have been stopped (in any state), the cop has asked if I have any weapons in the car.
Planning ahead, I will keep my hands on the top of the wheel where they are in plain site. After he/she asks If I know why I was stopped (Good Driver Award?), I'll tell him I have a weapon on me and a permit. The way I carry, if I reach for my wallet with DL & CCW my weapon will be exposed. I want him to know that I am legally carrying.
What I and the cop don't want is SURPRISES. I don't believe there is any room in a situation like this for testosterone.
Regarding the "May I search your vehicle" question, anybody ever try this one: "Sure officer, as soon as I have a copy of your affidavit of probable cause and there is another witness to the search." This gets really interesting.

 

[2nd Amendment]

El Tejon, I was under the impression that it did NOT pop up in Indiana? I know it does in some other states but these stops were here at home?

 

[Archie]

And then, there's ignorance.

I work in a law enforcement field, many of my associates could not tell the difference between a Churchhill SxS shotgun and an Illudium Pu-36 Explosive Space Modulator. The word "gun" on the lips of most anyone engenders distrust and fear verging on panic. ("But why would he have one?") I'm not talking about the badge-heavy types who figure "citizens" ought to be content being victims, but fairly normal thinking officers.

The lawmen who have responded on this forum are obviously the exceptions; please don't take offense. There are many others who just flat don't know enough about the subject; which accounts for the non-sentient questions like "You have a gun?"

Jato mentioned

Because...someone has reported you as a suspect in a crime!

However, that possibility has nothing to do with a regular traffic stop.
Jato, if you had probable cause for a stop based on specific information regarding a crime, you wouldn't treat it the same as a regular traffic stop, would you? And you wouldn't diddle about asking about permits, would you?

I've had the same problem. Stopped one night for a broken tail light (legitimate enough, it was broken), the officer asked if I had a gun in the car. I said yes. (I was in uniform going home from work.) He asked where it was. It was in a strong side holster on a duty belt, just like his was. He finally asked me out of the car to show him, read the patches and badge and stuff, and decided I wasn't a 7-11 bandit. So don't feel too put upon.
Got a fix-it ticket; fair enough.

And remember, the bulk of lawmen are like the bulk of the rest of the citizenry: all day long they get anti-gun propaganda blared at them from all sides. They are indoctrinated in what is called "situational awareness", but usually comes out to be "us and them paranoia".

 

[sasnofear]

i think police/public relations are very important. most cops are control freaks who jus wanna annoy you because they have nothing better to do. there are exception and i think labgrade is the sort of cop i'd like to see more of!

 

[dave]

" most cops are control freaks who jus wanna annoy you because they have nothing better to do." by sasnofear




Yep. And gun owners are all "gun nuts" who would kill a schoolyard full of children at the drop of a hat, just to watch them die.


And some folks wonder why the "anti" crowd treat all gun owners the same. After all, we're all "nuts", right?

 

[12GA]

for any NYS LEO's on the board

What would be your reaction, during a traffic stop, to an individual who is carrying and has a CCW with the "hunting/trapping/target/transport to and from" restrictions written on it?

 

[bronco61]

If they indicate that they have a gun, I ask them where it is, what it is, and do they have a license for it. If they have a license, I request same, asking them to try to keep their hands visible and away from their weapon. I will then confirm that the license is valid. Once I've determined the license is valid and they're not a badguy/gal I'll usually express my strong belief in the 2nd Amendment,


Although I'm sure your intentions are good; Actively participating in and enforcing gun control does not display a "strong belief" in the 2nd Amendment.

 

[Eamonn Wright]

So Bronco61,
I guess all people, regardless if they are law abiding or not, should have a gun. I should just assume their intentions are good, and let them be on their merry way. I hope if they are en rte to make a withdrawal from the local stop & rob, none of your loved ones are in line. I've locked up many people with no prior criminal record. Tell me how to determine that the person with the gun, but no license, is really one of the good guys. It certainly isn't by lack of a criminal record. Then hire yourself out to Mistress Cleo, because you have a true gift.

 

[tyme]

E. Wright, it is not your duty to determine who has just made a withdrawl from a stop 'n rob. Your duty is to stay out of their business unless you have reason to believe a crime is being, has been, or in some cases will be committed.

 

[bronco61]

I should just assume their intentions are good, and let them be on their merry way.

DING! Innocent until proven guilty, and driving down the road w/out a "gun license" is NOT a crime.

I hope if they are en rte to make a withdrawal from the local stop & rob, none of your loved ones are in line.

They should be able to take care of themselves.....unless of course, you've already taken their firearm away because they didn't have the correct government papers for it.


Tell me how to determine that the person with the gun, but no license, is really one of the good guys.

The same way you can tell me how to determine that the person with the gun, but no license, is really one of the BAD guys.

Are you saying that the license they carry on them PROVES that they are NOT on their way to commit a crime or leaving the scene of a crime? You can't! The same as I can't prove that a guy with a gun, but no license, is one of the GOOD guys!

The fact of the matter is that taking people to jail for merely having a firearm when you have no proof or reason to believethat they've done anything criminal with it...IS GUN CONTROL and no different than what other countries do.

The ONLY thing a "license" proves is that the person jumped through the hoops to get it, or was one of the "elite" who are "allowed" to carry a firearm in some areas. IT DOES NOT SHOW INTENT!!

 

[Matthew Courtney]

It wasn't amusing at the time, but I do chuckle when I think about the time a Sherriff's deputy tried to unload my Remington 1100. It's not hard to do, but you do have to be familiar with one to avoid fumbling.

 

[AK103K]

I had some fun with a Deputy Game Protector, who must have just got out of school, tried to tell me I was gong to fined because I didnt pick up my brass at the range. As he inspected my 1851 Navy he wanted to know how to open the loading port to see if it was loaded. I informed him it didnt have any, which really seemed to annoy him. It took me, and two others at the range to convince him it didnt use cartridges and there was no brass to be left and no port to open. I felt very safe when I left knowing he was on duty.

 

[Eamonn Wright]

Bronco61,
You may not agree that there should be any licensing of firearms, however you are wrong that driving down the street without a gun license is NOT crime. It IS a crime to have an unlicensed firearm where I'm from. I may not agree with every other law on the books, but should I be able to turn a blind eye toward those as well? I never said I could determine the intentions of every licensed gun owner, but it is a fact that a very small percentage of crime is committed by licensed gun owners. Conversely, most gun crimes are committed by unlicensed gun owners. We could probably go around in circles on this, but I doubt we'll ever see eye to eye.
Tyme, it's not my duty to determine who just robbed the local convenience store? Huh? My "duty" is to stay out of their business unless a crime is, has been, or will be committed? Your first sentence contradicts your second sentence. Maybe you can rephrase that so I understand what you mean.

 

[bronco61]

I meant "Crime" in the sense that it is harming anybody in any way. It is only a crime in the sense that there is a law in your state which prohibits carrying without a license. Oddly enough, in my state, a person may carry concealed legally w/out a license whenever outside a city limit. Evidently, everything changes because when we enter a town, we need to find our little ID's. I guess that once we enter a city limit, our morals change.

it is a fact that a very small percentage of crime is committed by licensed gun owners. Conversely, most gun crimes are committed by unlicensed gun owners

I've done much reading on this. My best source would be "More Guns Less Crime" which shows that although most gun crimes ARE committed by unlicensed gun owners, this means nothing as there is no way of knowing how many people carry w/out a permit in the first place so we can't tell the ratio of licensed people that commit crimes to unlicensed people who commit crimes.

I understand that you can't do your job in good conscious while turning a blind eye to people carrying w/out a license and that you may not agree with all laws in which you enforce. Luckily for me, I had the opportunity to ride with my cousin who is a P.O. and found that I couldn't in good couscious do the job because I am a true supporter of our 2nd Amendment (as well as the 4th, 9th, 10th among others).

I agree that we won't be able to see eye to eye and that arguing this would just be futile. I just wanted to point out the contradiction when you actively participate in, and enforce gun control and then immediately tell the same person that you are a big supporter of the 2nd Amendment. If you did that to myself and the people around here, there would be a lot of people needing stitches on their chins from their jaws dropping to the floorboards.

 

[Matthew Courtney]

Most states do not require a license of any kind to own a firearm. Massechusetts is an abberation in this regard. Many states do not even require any sort of permit to carry in your vehicle.

 

[Bainx]

Dave you are top-flight....

I hope to encounter LEOs like you out there.

In my state, you don't have to tell them you have a permit but, I think it is only reasonable that I would.

 

[suvdrvr]

I thought that when you hand a firearm to someone that it should be unloaded and the action open. I believe I would ask if the LEO would like me to unload it before I handed it to him.

 

[Eamonn Wright]

Matthew Courtney,
Check out Packing.org sometime. You've got your facts a little confused. Most states have some type of licensing laws re concealed carry. I checked out your state, Louisiana, and guess what? To obtain a license to carry you need to fill out an application with the LSP, show an NRA or similar training certificate, and file fingerprints with the LSP. Sounds strangely like licensing requirements to me.
A quick question Bronco, not to belabor the point. If there are laws against shouting fire in a theater, and I support these laws, can I not be a supporter of the 1st Amendment?

 

[labgrade]

Kinda thought this would go off-shore some.

Still haven't had an answer (after a quick skim) from any LEO-type who can answer the (allbeit fairly ineptly put) question.

Let's try it again.

Unless I'm in "the position," how is me handing you my gun anything good for you?

That any easier?

We'll take up why might be in th eposition for doing absolutely nothing wrong if it comes up ....

"Colorado does not require that you inform an LEO that you are carrying."

Nope, but many Sheriffs do as a requirement of application or issuance. Larimer County for a fact requires that you notify upon contact. Failure to do so is cause for loss of license. A nit, but hey! that what we're here for.

"and i think labgrade is the sort of cop i'd like to see more of!"

Thanks much, sasnofear, but it's been a long while since I wuz badged.

Fun enough job - one of the best I ever had, but the more I learned about the (formerly capitalized) constitution, just couldn't do it any longer.

 

[mjustice]

Unfortunately, New York allows the police officer to disarm you during a stop/confrontation. However, you are not required to inform an officer that you are carrying (but you do have to present your license if they ask for it). Since most cops don't even *think* to ask that in a non-felony-stop situation, I don't count on it happening.

If it did happen (the cop asks for my gun), I would probably explain that it is not in a place that I can reach with my hands on the dash.

I'd probably offer to step out of the car and let him take it. Pointing a pistol at a cop, even inadvertently, is a recipe for disaster. I'll take the chance of an A/D over the likely possibility of me covering the cop by accident.

If I tell him to grab by the grip and yank, how likely is he or she to put their finger in the trigger guard and squeeze with enough pressure to drop a DA hammer?

MJ

 

[lapidator]

Unless I'm in "the position," how is me handing you my gun anything good for you?

Quite simple actually: you cannot be trusted with a gun. Legally they cannot keep you from owning/possessing it, but during official contact they can, and usually do, prevent you from possessing it. Thus you must be disarmed.




Eamonn Wright,

If i may join in...

If there are laws against shouting fire in a theater, and I support these laws, can I not be a supporter of the 1st Amendment?

Please consider what you are saying. Gun ownership is analogous to vocal cord ownership; speaking is analogous to shooting. Therefore, what you mean is, "If there are laws against shouting fire in a theatre, and I support laws that make it illegal to possess vocal cords in theatres, can I not be a supporter of the 1st Amend.?" Right?

Supporting the 2nd Amendment, regardless of what your think of our (Massachusetts') gun control laws, means understanding that people have a right to keep and bear arms. That means that the simple act of possessing said arms, while driving in an automobile on the streets of the Commonwealth is NOT a crime. If it is not a crime, then there is no probable cause that a crime is being committed.

IMO, enforcing the gun control laws of Massachusetts, those that are in violation of the 2nd and 14th Amendments to the COTUS, is therefore not "supporting the 2nd A".

Don't get me wrong. Given the alterrnative, i'll gladly see you enforcing the (largely absurd) laws of the Commonwealth, since you are apparently gun-friendly, then to deal with the vast majority of LEOs here that are clearly anti-gun.

lapidator

 

[Thumper]

The lawmen who have responded on this forum are obviously the exceptions; please don't take offense. There are many others who just flat don't know enough about the subject; which accounts for the non-sentient questions like "You have a gun?"

They're not the exception around here, Archie. In my neck of the woods, having a CHL is almost like having a get out of jail free card.

Societal differences.

 

[Thumper]

I've determined the license is valid and they're not a badguy/gal I'll usually express my strong belief in the 2nd Amendment

and

You may not agree that there should be any licensing of firearms, however you are wrong that driving down the street without a gun license is NOT crime.

Eamonn, unfortunately your contradictions are showing.

 

[DMK]

Labgrade, I'm sorry as I don't have an answer to your question, and am as dumfounded as you are in the logic of an officer asking a citizen to present their weapon when it should be safe in the holster.

I actually have a further question. Sitting stopped in a vehicle, exactly where should your weapon be pointed when handing it to the officer?

Pulled over on the side of a busy road, I can't think of any safe direction and I was always taught to keep the muzzle pointed in a direction where if the weapon was accidently or negligently discharged, it wouldn't hurt anyone!

In other words presenting a loaded weapon in a public place for any reason other than self defense is contrary to public safety.

 

[Eamonn Wright]

So Thumper,
by your logic, anyone who obtains a LTC or obeys the laws of their state cannot be a supporter of the 2nd amendment. How am I contradicting myself by stating the FACT that in my state there is a law against carrying an unlicensed firearm, and also that I support the 2nd Amendment? I suppose all you guys who want to slam me show your support of the 2nd by refusing to obey the laws of your states and get the proper licenses, etc., right? Because if you do, you are hypocritical. Why are there so many posts regarding licensing from people all over the country? All of these people surely aren't anti 2nd, are they?
Maybe it's me, but there are people in this society whom I believe have no right to carry a gun. Gun crime is what is making it so difficult for law abiding people to obtain guns. I know the media and left wing groups like the VPC routinely lie and distort the facts, but I get to see the results up close. How do we keep the guns from the criminals without violating their 2nd rights?