queston for the police about civilian carry

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I was on the job in a city for 26 years and I LOVED having a citizen tell me prior to my asking " are there any weapons in there",that they were armed AND where the gun was.

I let most go when I was told PRIOR to asking.

I do get stopped [ very,VERY seldom [ low profile ] and when stopped I I.D. myself and state that I am armed.

So far all have been very polite and let me go with a "slow down" and a have a nice day sir [ I am MUCH older than the average officer ].

Being polite and honest is THE best policy imnsho.

That's in general the best policy with everyone, and with the Police, it can definitely get them to be nicer to you. Being obstinate and aggressive is a great way to get a resisting arrest +/ assaulting an officer charge. Be helpful and cooperative and you might not even get that speeding ticket.
 
NavyLCDR the dispatcher probably does not have time to run the license on a registered owner most of the time. During the day I probably did not have that information until the license itself was run. At night when more bad guys are out running around it is nice to have.

Running the driver's license check during a stop is standard OP.

Of course you can't know who is driving the car until you contact the; seems like an odd question. The idea of running the registered owner at the beginning of the stop is not to find out about a CCW. It is to check on the possibility of warrants or other previous contacts that could affect how the stop is conducted.

As JustinJ said, I am an enthusiast but overall the police are very pro gun on an individual basis. When you see a statement from a police department that is anti-gun stop and remember that the chief work at the pleasure of the Mayor and the Mayor is a politician.

You asked why I stopped asking so I will clarify a bit. I got to know the CCW people a bit better. Now, if they have been drinking, uncooperative or there was something else suspicious about them I may have still asked. The action of asking if someone is armed is not an unreasonable question.
 
Greeting's Tim My Friend-

Speaking as a former LEO, I have NO PROBLEM with you being armed and in
your vechile. I'm a highly trained, professional LEO; and I like to treat folks,
the way I woluld want too be treated. I'm always on the "look-out" for the
unexpected; which as you know could present its-self in many forms, and
from many ways. Simply runn'in a license plate [with the operator informing
me that you may be armed cuz you have a CCW license]; don't really excite
me. Upon our [greeting], I'm sure that you are going to tell me that you are
armed, correct~? If you present your DL, please always present your carry
license as well; and we will both be more relaxed. Heck, if time permits-we
may even discuss a little firearms knowledge~? ;):cool: :D
 
Of course you can't know who is driving the car until you contact the; seems like an odd question.

My odd question was in response to this odd statement posted by Formula94 (and a statement which I have heard more than once), "A buddy of mine is a Washington County (MN) sheriff's deputy and he actually told me that it shows up when they run your plates if you have a permit to carry. Not sure if he was just BS'ing me or not."

It is impossible for the officer to determine if the driver has a CCW permit or not from the license plates, because the license plates cannot possibly provide the officer with the identity of who is driving the vehicle. Maybe a likely indication, but nothing for sure.

The action of asking if someone is armed is not an unreasonable question.

What I specifically asked about was: You stop a person, interact with them, go back to your vehicle, run their driver's license and THEN find out they have a CCW permit. Then, AFTER you find out that they have done everything to get the permit, it is still valid and there is 99% chance that any firearm they may possess is completely legal, some officers will then RETURN to the subject and then ask them about the presence of a firearm. That may not be unreansonable, but it certainly is unnecessary considering the fact that the officer felt no need to ask about a gun at the beginning when he knew basically nothing about the subject he had stopped.
 
Upon our [greeting], I'm sure that you are going to tell me that you are armed, correct~?

If you present your DL, please always present your carry license as well; and we will both be more relaxed. Heck, if time permits-we may even discuss a little firearms knowledge~? ;):cool: :D

If my state law does not require me to tell you about my gun or permit, why would I? It is a legal object in my lawful possession. The safest place for my gun is in it's holster with nobody touching it. You, as a police officer, may feel no need to fondle my gun when I tell you about it, but can you guarantee that 100% of the other officers will not want to?

When I tell a police officer about my lawfully possessed and carried gun, which is safe in it's holster with nobody touching, I am doing NOTHING in reality to actually MAKE anyone safer. All that I am doing is extending an invitation to the officer to fondle my gun, uneccisarily, if they choose to do so.

I don't tell my garbage man, the guy cutting wood at the lumber yard or the farmers near where I live about my gun because there is no need to. If you stop me for speeding, there is no need for me to tell a police officer about my lawfully carried and possessed gun any more than to tell them about my cell phone, gps unit, or which CDs are in my stereo. It is completely 100% irrelevent to the reason I am stopped.

Before someone asks what do you have to lose by informing...like I said, the safest place for my gun is in it's holster with nobody touching it. Telling the officer about the gun when not required does NOTHING more than extend an invitation to that officer to fondle that gun, "for officer safety", of course, which instead puts everyone nearby at an increased risk of a negligent discharge.
 
Police only have the right to disarm you for officer safety

RAS = Reasonable Articulable Suspicion


LEO has same rights as everyone else, and nothing more or less. Their authority is different.

When I was a Cop Articulable Suspicion had nothing to do with reasonable. When did that Change?

Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk
 
LEO has same rights as everyone else, and nothing more or less. Their authority is different.

When I was a Cop Articulable Suspicion had nothing to do with reasonable. When did that Change?

Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk

It changed in 1967 in a US Supreme Court case: Terry v. Ohio.

http://www.legalupdateonline.com/4th/59

Defined: "Reasonable suspicion" is information which is sufficient to cause a reasonable law enforcement officer, taking into account his or her training and experience, to reasonably believe that the person to be detained is, was, or is about to be, involved in criminal activity. The officer must be able to articulate more than an "inchoate and unparticularized suspicion or ‘hunch' of criminal activity." (Terry v. Ohio (1968) 392 U.S. 1, 27 [20 L.Ed.2nd 889, 909].)

How old are you? You must have been a long time ago.
 
If my state law does not require me to tell you about my gun or permit, why would I? It is a legal object in my lawful possession. The safest place for my gun is in it's holster with nobody touching it. You, as a police officer, may feel no need to fondle my gun when I tell you about it, but can you guarantee that 100% of the other officers will not want to?

When I tell a police officer about my lawfully possessed and carried gun, which is safe in it's holster with nobody touching, I am doing NOTHING in reality to actually MAKE anyone safer. All that I am doing is extending an invitation to the officer to fondle my gun, uneccisarily, if they choose to do so.
...
Before someone asks what do you have to lose by informing...like I said, the safest place for my gun is in it's holster with nobody touching it. Telling the officer about the gun when not required does NOTHING more than extend an invitation to that officer to fondle that gun, "for officer safety", of course, which instead puts everyone nearby at an increased risk of a negligent discharge.

Although we are required in SC to notify an LEO of our CWP and whether we are armed when ID is requested, I think it's a dumb law too. It's almost never relevant to the purpose of the stop, and leaving the weapon holstered in my possession is without doubt the safest course of action. I don't disagree with a word of your justification for not notifying, but I can answer your question of why one might do so anyway.

I respect LE, and I'm one of the good guys. By providing my CWP and declaring my firearm, I convey these sentiments to the LEO. So while I object to the law on 4th and 5th Amendment grounds, it doesn't have much practical effect for me. It's just a dumb law, because the good guys don't have anything to hide, and the bad guys aren't going to tell on themselves anyway.

To your point about whether notifying an LEO about my CWP and firearm invites unnecessary fondling, I've already stated that I agree it's far safer holstered in my possession. I also agree this is a valid reason for choosing not to notify the LEO, where such a choice is legal. However, I would generally choose to notify anyway, even if I weren't legally bound to do so, based on a subtle risk vs. reward equation:

Most officers know better than to remove a citizen's legally carried firearm "for officer safety" during a simple traffic stop. Although it could happen, it's not the expected outcome. On the other hand, by notifying the LEO of my permit and firearm, and thus genuinely and politely letting him or her know that I respect LE and I'm one of the good guys, I may be let off with a warning. In my estimation this is a far more likely outcome than having the LEO remove the firearm from my possession, however briefly. If I thought a more unpleasant outcome were likely, I would not be as willing to notify, but may consider doing so anyway as a matter of respect (again, if not already legally bound to do so anyway).

But to the main point...we should not be required to notify. It should be a matter of discretion for both citizens and LEOs: for citizens, whether they want to notify or not; for LEOs, whether they think they should ask about firearms or not.
 
On the other hand, by notifying the LEO of my permit and firearm, and thus genuinely and politely letting him or her know that I respect LE and I'm one of the good guys, I may be let off with a warning. In my estimation this is a far more likely outcome than having the LEO remove the firearm from my possession, however briefly.

You are a very honest person! I feel that is why most people really desire to inform.

When I am stopped, and I used to speed chronically and gotten stopped quite a bit more than the normal person, I would always look for the safest place to pull over, have my window rolled all the way down, not just cracked, driver's license and military ID card (driver's license not valid without it) in my hand resting just outside the window, folder with insurance and registration in my lap, other hand on steering wheel. Greet officer with all the pleasantries and sirs.

If that isn't polite and respectful enough, I really don't think telling them about my CPL and gun is going to do much more, just for me personally.
 
I haven't read every post, but in NC, you have to inform when you are addressed by a police officer. Most days, my bank has an officer at the door, and just his or her saying, "Hello," means I must inform them. If I'm not the only one walking in at the time, then someone nearby can overhear that I have a CCW or that I might have a firearm in my vehicle. It may make some nervous, or it might make others remember my license plate number if they see me get in our out of my vehicle.

I have mixed feelings about the law. I think the LE has a hard enough job and I'm not looking to make it harder. At the same time I'm concerned about how I appear to those who hate gun owners, or those who have $15 to find my address after running my plate online.
 
Don't forget about the Unions
when actual members of the local teachers union were polled on a topic that the teachers and government workers unions (why in the hell are they unionized?) have been testifying against, they found 49% were for it, and 51% were against.

Yet if you had listened to the union shill, you would think the teachers and school administrators were ready to take up torches. One could see this as union problems, and they wonder why the school board is so unpopular.

As for the must inform law
I believe the term used for my state is 'official contact'
don't believe Hello would count.
 
I have a lead foot, a long commute, and live in a "must inform" state, so I get to "inform" probably more often than the average person. However, if not required, I would not do it.

Only once has there ever been an issue made of it, but even one time out of many is one time too often. It is a terrible law. How is that "officer safety" going to work out if the officer shoots me in the back while trying to figure out how to unload a gun he may or may not be familiar with? My life would be over or changed forever, and his career would likely be over. And for what?

Also I guess it varies by state, but "are there guns in the car" is not an unsolicited standard question during a traffic stop here. Frankly that question would baffle me. Can he ask you to list the entire contents of your trunk, for example? I don't believe he has the right to just search anything in the car that he wishes.

Sometimes I get a ticket, and sometimes I don't. I have never once got the impression that the discresionary decision on whether to issue a ticket is in any way tied to whether or not I have a CWP.
 
It's funny how some state legislatures think that requiring law abiding citizens to tell cops about their lawfully possessed and lawfully carried firearms is somehow supposed to magically make police safer from those same law abiding citizens.... :scrutiny:

Well, OK, it's even funnier (or sadder?) that some gun owners think the same way....
 
I understand that I am not required to notify. If I prefer to inform, I really don't need people telling me not to. In the same way that it's my right to carry, it's my right to inform if I choose to, correct?

I don't mean to be confrontational, but are people here really advising me not to exercise my rights the way I legally want to?
 
Especially since the officer would appreciate it and it might get you a warning instead of a ticket.
  1. What if the cop would appreciate you not CARRYING? Would you do STOP carrying to please him?
  2. The way to avoid traffic tickets is to obey the traffic laws, NOT to render extra-legal "courtesies" that invariably morph into extra-legal entitlements.
 
I understand that I am not required to notify. If I prefer to inform, I really don't need people telling me not to. In the same way that it's my right to carry, it's my right to inform if I choose to, correct?

I don't mean to be confrontational, but are people here really advising me not to exercise my rights the way I legally want to?

I can't speak for others. I am merely posting the reasons why I do not inform so that people can see all sides of the argument and decide for themselves. Also, realize that it is your right to choose to notify...by exercising your right to choose to notify, you are waiving your right to privacy (concealed means concealed, right?) and if the officer chooses to disarm you (for officer safety, of course) you waive your 4th amendment right of protection from unreasonable seizure of your personal property and if the officer chooses to run the serial number of your gun (I have no idea why they do this, but they routinely do when they come into possession of a completely lawfully possessed gun) you also waive your right of protection from unreasonable searches.

As soon as an officer who has lawfully detained you becomes aware of or has reasonable suspicion of the presence of a firearm, he now has the authority to disarm you for officer safety for the duration of the stop. Sure, the courts say "armed AND DANGEROUS" but there has only been one state supreme court so far (and I don't recall the state at the moment) that has ever separated armed from dangerous.
 
I do appreciate the opinions expressed here, I must admit that the discussion has me thinking more about this than I have recently.

This is why it's The High Road!
 
I have not been stopped by a officers to weight the pro's and con's of how they react to being inform that I carry. NC law! Only licence checks and there no one seems to carre no matter troppers or deputies. I keep my CC and drivers licence back to back and pass the CC side out to the officers and tell them I am carry'n and have not had officer care one way or the other or ask about my firearm. Just have a good day and go on about my way.

It would be nice to not have to deal with it but I also don't want a young new officer or old crusty one getting all fluffed up when slow computer or some dispatcher comes up with info saying I carry and not have my cc and drivers licence up and be ready to tell them ether.. Some officers i know are so layed back and calm I think they can handle about anything and some are twisted a bit to tight and allways seem on edge. Maybe the coffee too. Know different than the rest of us.

Ole leo buddy back in florida said his computer info should tell him if i carry even with a NC licence tag. Not sure if thats true but when so many officers you see will pull a person and stay in there car long enought to review your info before getting out of there car you might as well be up front with them, hands at or out the window with my licence's just to be safe.
 
JustinJ said:
The opinions of LE on this board are not going to be representative of LE on the whole. This is a board for gun enthusiasts and most gun enthusiasts view concealed carry favorably. [...] I don't mean to imply most cops are against concealed carry but their points of views are far more diverse than what you will find of LE here.
I agree. A better way to frame the question, IMO, would have been to ask non-LE members their experiences, to get a better cross section (as far as that is possible) of views.

My one interaction with LE while armed (Glendale, AZ PD in 2007), was positive. As far as any "duty to inform," I will follow whatever the law is, but not volunteer any extraneous information.
 
I can recall 5 times I have been stopped for speeding while I was carrying a firearm. Never informed. Got tickets 2 out of the 5 times. Firearm or CPL was never mentioned by the officer or myself and remained a completely irrelevant non-issue as it should be.

Even the one time the officer asked me to step out of the vehicle so he could lecture me and let me go with a warning, just not in front of my family....my openly carried stainless Taurus PT-145 in the holster on my belt didn't phase him one bit.
 
Even the one time the officer asked me to step out of the vehicle so he could lecture me and let me go with a warning, just not in front of my family....my openly carried stainless Taurus PT-145 in the holster on my belt didn't phase him one bit.

This surprises me, but in a good way.
 
This was my post from after last St. Patrick's Day:

I got stopped last night on my way home from practice. (I'd forgotten it was St. Patrick's Day and hadn't counted on all three of my township's cars being staged at the turn-off to my neck of the woods.)

Young cop walks up and after telling me my headlight is out (doh!) asks for license & reg.

I tell him I'm going to reach for my wallet, in my left front pocket.

"What, are you armed?"
"W..."
"'Cause that's ok if you are I don't care it's just nobody ever bothers to tell me where' they're going to put their hands so I figured you probably were and that's cool, no problem I just have to do the license thing 'cause I already called the plate in but you aren't getting a ticket just a warning and you don't even have to really follow the directions on the sheet it's just get the headlight fixed sometime i'll be right back ... hey... wait, are you carring anything COOL?
"Uh, Smith and Wesson. 629. ..."
"Oh COOL! Hey do you know if there are any cool gun shops around? I moved out here from Philly a while back and I love it but where do you go for gun stuff? ...."

...And on, and on, with a very chatty and pleasant young cop who never did ask to see my LCTF and who told me that they were all out looking for drunks, and hadn't found one yet. :)


...15 minutes later...

"Well take care, you have my card call me if you ever need anything, see you at the next tractor show or the fireman's carival maybe, g'night!

(To myself:)"Uh, strange, he forgot to even write me the warning...!" :)
 
A law without consequence is merely advice.

That may be your take, but as far as I'm concerned it is still a law. I am going to follow the law, even if the penalty for not doing so has been removed. Police officers take a risk and make enough of a sacrifice going to work each day to uphold the laws, and I will respect them enough to notify them that I am carrying. I am a law-abiding citizen, and I will stay as such.
 
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