Quick question about blade coatings
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rcmodel
Member in memoriam
It doesn't matter.
The only blade finish that won't chip, flake, or scratch off the first time you strike it against something hard enough to make sparks is DLC finish used by some makers now.
(Diamond Like Carbon coating)
rc
The only blade finish that won't chip, flake, or scratch off the first time you strike it against something hard enough to make sparks is DLC finish used by some makers now.
(Diamond Like Carbon coating)
rc
buckfynn
Member
I don't care for coated knives when it comes to using a ferrocerium rods. I'll either remove the coating entirely or at the very least grind an area off the spine where the metal will have good contact with the spine.
I have owned an uncoated SK-5 for several years now and have been more than pleased with it.
I have owned an uncoated SK-5 for several years now and have been more than pleased with it.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
My thought is, if you are going to carry a fire sparker, carry a steel to use on it!
Like an old file or something.
And save all the abuse to your good knives from whacking them on hard stuff.
Myself?
I Always carry a BIC lighter, and a spare new one in my winter jacket or coat.
I couldn't start a fire in the rain or snow if my life depended on it with a sparker.
But I bet I could with a BIC lighter!!!
rc
Like an old file or something.
And save all the abuse to your good knives from whacking them on hard stuff.
Myself?
I Always carry a BIC lighter, and a spare new one in my winter jacket or coat.
I couldn't start a fire in the rain or snow if my life depended on it with a sparker.
But I bet I could with a BIC lighter!!!
rc
Agreed. I carry a zippo in the woods for the same reason. Since this is going to be a general purpose, all around outdoors knife I figured I'd ask since I want to make sure I understand the advantages and limitations of each knife I'm considering.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
I finally gave up on Zippo's after carrying them 40 years.
They were always either out of fuel, flint, or burning a hole in my leg with excess fuel leaking out after I filled them.
My old black Zippo with Army logo I carried a long ways!!
I've smoked, and tried every kind of wind proof / waterproof lighter there is over the last 50 years.
IMO: BIC is the best affordable lighter there is made by anyone, at any price.
Some of the little refillable butane crack torches are hotter for lighting fires.
But they run out of fuel Real Fast, and the refill valve often leaks all the fuel out when you need it 50 miles from home in the rain.
rc
They were always either out of fuel, flint, or burning a hole in my leg with excess fuel leaking out after I filled them.
My old black Zippo with Army logo I carried a long ways!!
I've smoked, and tried every kind of wind proof / waterproof lighter there is over the last 50 years.
IMO: BIC is the best affordable lighter there is made by anyone, at any price.
Some of the little refillable butane crack torches are hotter for lighting fires.
But they run out of fuel Real Fast, and the refill valve often leaks all the fuel out when you need it 50 miles from home in the rain.
rc
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You can't strike a spark with a powder coated surface. You'd have to remove a small section or use the cutting edge.
ugaarguy
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I'm just wondering why you's want a coated blade SK5 to begin with. Ontario powder coats their carbon steel blades for corrosion resistance, but many folks remove the powder coating anyway because it's rough and adversely affects cutting performance. The SK5 has a stainless steel blade which doesn't need the coating.
That aside, if you're using a ferrocerium rod it won't matter, because the rod is the fuel and just needs a sharp corner to scrape it.
First, Ferrocerium rods are scraped, not struck. It's not going to hurt a quality knife to scrape its spine down a ferro rod. If you're trying to protect a knife you shouldn't be carrying it the field to start with.
Second, why carry another piece of steel when you have your knife? Ounces add up to pounds, and pounds add up to pain when traveling on foot.
Evil-Twin
member
My Zero tolerance 350 EDC has the Tungsten DLC coating . Mine is tiger striped.. I know of people who have had this coating for years with little evidence of wear.
My two EDC's
I abide by Rule #9. never leave home without a knife.
My two EDC's
I abide by Rule #9. never leave home without a knife.
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rcmodel
Member in memoriam
I guess I am real out of touch with modern Ferrocerium fire starters.
The only old one I still have is a chunk of magnesium I brought home from work 30 years ago.
Sparks like a zippo but it's hard on blades.
rc
The only old one I still have is a chunk of magnesium I brought home from work 30 years ago.
Sparks like a zippo but it's hard on blades.
rc
Powder coating on blades is polymer. It can't throw a spark.
You have to get through the coating to get to the metal underneath to throw a spark. It may not take more than a couple of tries with a ferro rod to get through that coating, but the easiest thing to do is to pick a specific spot on the spine with a good edge and remove the coating with an abrasive before you try. Carbon steel throws a higher volume of sparks than "stainless" which is why it is more often chosen by bushcrafters.
All of mine have a piece of saw blade cut to the same length as the rod with a hole drilled in the blade to tie the two together to prevent loosing one of the pieces.
You have to get through the coating to get to the metal underneath to throw a spark. It may not take more than a couple of tries with a ferro rod to get through that coating, but the easiest thing to do is to pick a specific spot on the spine with a good edge and remove the coating with an abrasive before you try. Carbon steel throws a higher volume of sparks than "stainless" which is why it is more often chosen by bushcrafters.
All of mine have a piece of saw blade cut to the same length as the rod with a hole drilled in the blade to tie the two together to prevent loosing one of the pieces.
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ugaarguy
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My understanding is that the "spark" from modern ferro rods is actually the ferrocerium shavings igniting from the friction as they're scraped off. I had no problem getting a Light My Fire brand Swedish Fire Steel to "spark" when I used the spine of a black coated Benchmade Griptilian to verify this.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
O.K.
I just tried the spine of my DLC coated Benchmade Nimvarus on my old Doan Magnesium fire sparker.
http://www.oldjimbo.com/survival/doan.html
The Nimverus DLC took tiny hits off the sharp corner of the blade spine, but barely visible.
But, given a choice, I would rather use one of the broken hacksaw blades attached to the fire starter by a cord then my $160 Binchmade!!
That's why they are attached to it!
rc
I just tried the spine of my DLC coated Benchmade Nimvarus on my old Doan Magnesium fire sparker.
http://www.oldjimbo.com/survival/doan.html
The Nimverus DLC took tiny hits off the sharp corner of the blade spine, but barely visible.
But, given a choice, I would rather use one of the broken hacksaw blades attached to the fire starter by a cord then my $160 Binchmade!!
That's why they are attached to it!
rc
Longhorn 76
Member
With a flint and steel, you strike the steel with the sharp edge of the flint. You are scraping bits off of the steel, which get hot and spark. The steel should be struck with authority.
The magnesium blocks usually have a ferro strip attached to the side. The plan is to cut or scrape some of the magnesium off, to be used as tinder. Then you scrape the ferro rod. The sparks are pieces of the ferro rod, which get hot and spark. Nothing should be damaged on the steel, you are just using it to scrape pieces of the ferro off. Like the flint and steel method in reverse.
The magnesium blocks usually have a ferro strip attached to the side. The plan is to cut or scrape some of the magnesium off, to be used as tinder. Then you scrape the ferro rod. The sparks are pieces of the ferro rod, which get hot and spark. Nothing should be damaged on the steel, you are just using it to scrape pieces of the ferro off. Like the flint and steel method in reverse.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
Whatever.
I still contend you can carry a new BIC lighter, a candle stub, and probably 50 or so waterproof Life Boat matches in the same size container.
And stand a 150% better chance of starting a fire in the rain with wet timber then you do with a magic sparkler & steel do hickey.
That's my story, and I'm sticking to it!
rc
I still contend you can carry a new BIC lighter, a candle stub, and probably 50 or so waterproof Life Boat matches in the same size container.
And stand a 150% better chance of starting a fire in the rain with wet timber then you do with a magic sparkler & steel do hickey.
That's my story, and I'm sticking to it!
rc
Valkman
Member
I was watching an "expert" (self proclaimed) try and start a fire the other night on "Naked and Afraid". He couldn't do it and exhausted himself and his partner trying. I think if I was on that show (and you know you want to see me naked 
) I'd get something to help with fire as the tool.
I'll stick with the lighter like RC does. otherwise I'm going to be very cold/dark/hungry.
) I'd get something to help with fire as the tool.I'll stick with the lighter like RC does. otherwise I'm going to be very cold/dark/hungry.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
I agree!
NO, not the seeing you naked part.
Starting a fire in the cold or rain with nothing but a bow drill or a flint & steel on a TV show is one thing.
But don't bet your life on it when your life depends on it, and there are much better ways now.
Those TV people have a camera crew to rescue them if the sparker don't work!!!
But You won't if you have ever fell through the ice duck hunting and need a fire 'Ratch Now'!!
I have.
rc
NO, not the seeing you naked part.
Starting a fire in the cold or rain with nothing but a bow drill or a flint & steel on a TV show is one thing.
But don't bet your life on it when your life depends on it, and there are much better ways now.
Those TV people have a camera crew to rescue them if the sparker don't work!!!
But You won't if you have ever fell through the ice duck hunting and need a fire 'Ratch Now'!!
I have.
rc
Valkman
Member
Really? That happened to you? No wonder you want a lighter! Taking 1/2 hr to start the fire would not have been good - you could've froze by then.
Longhorn 76
Member
If my earlier comment seemed confrontational, it was not intentional.
I just spent quite some time trying to figure out how to make fire with flint and steel; in my dry garage, with proper tinder.
If my life depends on it, I usually carry a couple of road flares. Those will start ANYTHING!
I just spent quite some time trying to figure out how to make fire with flint and steel; in my dry garage, with proper tinder.
If my life depends on it, I usually carry a couple of road flares. Those will start ANYTHING!
You guys are a trip. Thank you for all the replies and info. I have just posted another thread about knife steel for the knife I'm looking to get. I don't imagine having to spark on a ferro rod being high on my list, but you know... curiosity and all that...
You'd be wrong on that one (since I have all of the above), RC. Maybe if you ditch the candle stub. If you put some bicycle innertube around that lighter, you got everything beat, though since it is easy to start a little strip of that stuff burning and difficult to get it to go out.
herrwalther
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I have one of the magnesium bricks like RC has in his last picture. Hate that thing with a passion. Works well enough but you will easily break or at the very least dull your blade scraping off the magnesium block. Even using a hard D2 or 154cm blade it can get very dull if you didn't bring a sharpener on your camping trip.
I ditched the block in favor of a Swedish Firesteel. The Firesteel comes with its own serrated scraper to eliminate the need to use your own knife. And you don't need to scrape off a pile of it like the magnesium block. Have started probably about 100 fires with it over the years and can barely tell Ive used it at all, goes with me daily in a bag in my car.
http://www.amazon.com/Light-Fire-Original-Swedish-FireSteel/dp/B0013L8D9K
I ditched the block in favor of a Swedish Firesteel. The Firesteel comes with its own serrated scraper to eliminate the need to use your own knife. And you don't need to scrape off a pile of it like the magnesium block. Have started probably about 100 fires with it over the years and can barely tell Ive used it at all, goes with me daily in a bag in my car.
http://www.amazon.com/Light-Fire-Original-Swedish-FireSteel/dp/B0013L8D9K
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
:banghead:
Maybe I should have said birthday cake candles!!
They are SMALL candle stubs!!
About the same size as the Lifeboat matches.
That pack nicely around the BIC Lighters.
rc
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