Quick Question: Cheap Progressive Press

[LiveLife]

do you know the difference between the Lee Pro 1000 & 4000?

Pro 1000 is a 3 station progressive press:

• Revised in 2019 to address several known issues except primer feed attachment that particularly has issues with slightly larger diameter metric sized foreign made primers.
• Positive auto index rod with holes through shell plate (Index adjustment made with a large Phillips head bolt)
• Utilizes universal case feeder and solid Z-bar rod and case collator (That quickly refills with a few handfuls of brass)
• Uses removable tool head with dies (turret) to change caliber along with switching out small/large primer attachment that requires removal of shell plate
• Due to ram under sizing die/station #1 with floating shell plate design, provides least amount of shell plate tilt/deflection down to .001" OAL variance using pre-resized brass - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...progressive-press.833604/page-2#post-10779806
• Comes with ergo roller handle and can load .223

Auto Breech Lock Pro is a 4 station progressive press and Pro 4000 is the kit version that includes ABLP press (Kit comes with dies, powder measure, safety prime, etc.):

• Lee seemed to have built ABLP to address all the issues users of Pro 1000 and Load Master had
• Uses Safety Prime attachment that will feed primers down to the last primer
• Positive auto index rod with holes through shell plate (Index adjustment is automatic on the fly by backing shell plate a bit during ram lever operation)
• Uses Quick Change Bushings to change caliber with the easiest and fastest primer foot change that simply drops in without having to remove shell plate (All the primer feet and tools are stored onboard so no need to look for tools/parts)
• Due to ram under sizing die/station #1 design, provides least amount of shell plate tilt/deflection down to .001"+ OAL variance using pre-resized brass (But not as low as Pro 1000)
• Utilizes universal case feeder and spring that is more forgiving than solid Z-bar (smoother operation) and case collator
• Comes with ergo roller handle and can load .223

.45 ACP ... Is there a ... good Progressive press with cheap [caliber conversion] parts that you guys recommend? I just need 4-5 station. My next project is tons of .223

If you want to seat and crimp in separate operations, 4 station ABLP is the clear choice. (You can seat and crimp separately on Pro 1000 but requires using pre-resized brass)

ABLP hands down provides the fastest and easiest caliber change of any progressive press using just the Quick Change bushings as small/large primer feet come with the press (3 pack for $17).

When I had to scale down reloading equipment to help my aging parents with medical issues, out of 15 presses that included Dillon 650 with case feeder, 550C, 450, C-H 3/4 station H type presses, Herters turret press, ABLP/Pro 4000, LCT, several Pro 1000s, along with single stage presses, I chose Dillon 550C and ABLP/Pro 4000 as two presses that I used most often and addressed all of my reloading needs.

 

[kidneyboy]

do you know the difference between the Lee Pro 1000 & 4000?

I know the Pro 1000 is a 3 hole press. The 4000 is the auto breech lock pro (ABLP) with all the stuff for a specific caliber. I already owned most of the stuff for 45 and 9mm so just bought the ABLP.

 

[kalielkslayer]

Like “mcb” said!

Doing mixed head stamp brass (range brass) on the 550, I’ll have 2-3 pieces a 100 that don’t feel right. I’ll index to the next station, pull the little retaining pin and inspect. If the primer didn’t seat, or if the spent primer is still in the case, I’ll put it back in the 1st station 1 more time. Most times the 2nd try works, probably because I didn’t have the case set correctly in the tool plate. If the case doesn’t work on the 2nd attempt, I look at the headstamp out of curiosity, then discard in and move on.
Some time when it doesn’t feel right, the case will be fine, fresh primer installed correctly. About once every 250 or so, I’ll have one not seated deep enough. I used to think it was because I short stroked the priming step. But it seems to be specific to one particular headstamp so I’m not certain. When this happens, I finish seating the primer with my hand priming tool and get my flow going again.

But the tool heads are rather expensive especially if you buy a new powder drop for each tool plate like I’m doing.

 

[EricBu]

like if I messed up on seating a primer, or I forgot to drop a bullet in the case station

Well, if that's all you're worried about. It's pretty easy to correct an issue on the 650 or 750. Normally I just pull the offending case out and come back to it later. But it's not difficult to fix things as you go. I know the lee looks tempting at that price point, but you will be sooooo much happier over the next 30 or 40 years that you'll be running that 750!

 

[LiveLife]

lee looks tempting at that price point, but ... 750!

But if you read the OP, it said ...

Cheap Progressive Press ... Cheap but good Progressive press with cheap [conversion] parts that you guys recommend?

While 750 is a great press, it does not meet OP's criteria of cheap press with cheap caliber conversion parts.

And ABLP meets OP's criteria that I would recommend.

 

[EricBu]

But if you read the OP, it said ...

​

While 750 is a great press, it does not meet OP's criteria of cheap press with cheap caliber conversion parts.

And ABLP meets OP's criteria that I would recommend.

My reading skills are just fine, thank you very much. But if YOU read...I'm trying to talk him out of buying a cheap press.......or at least to include the additional cost of the hair plugs he'll need to replace his natural hair trying to keep a Lee progressive running. There's cheap, and there's value. A lee progressive is cheap, but the value of the press reflects that.

 

[LiveLife]

My reading skills are just fine

Really?

I’m kindda gun broke.

 

[EricBu]

Really?

​

Really...Mark Mark has more money than Trump...he owns most of Seattle. He just has a mean wife who won't let him buy lots of cool shooting stuff.

 

[kmw1954]

So, I’m kindda gun broke. Is there a Cheap but good Progressive press with cheap conversation parts that you guys recommend? I just need 4-5 station. My next project is tons of .223.

SUGGESTIONS?

My true suggestion if most of what is to be done are 223 rounds would be either a used Lee 3hole turret press or a Lee Pro1000.

I can have on my bench at any one time a Lee 3 hole turret, a Lee Pro1000, Lee Auto Breech Lock Pro, Lee new model Value turret press or an RCBS JR3.

I use the 3 hole turret to load my 223 rem. but am only using 2 positions. The powder measure and the seating die. I do not crimp my bullets. All brass prep work is accomplished on the JR3 single stage and priming is also done separately, off press, as I check each pc. while in process as I use this as target ammo and not just blasting ammo in an AR platform.

 

[LiveLife]

He just has a mean wife who won't let him buy lots of cool shooting stuff.

Been married 28 years and I can appreciate the translation to "broke" ... So, OP needs a progressive press that his wife will allow.

My wife has $10K-$15K pocket money slush fund she can do whatever whenever but if I want to spend a mere few hundred dollars on my hobby, she has to ask "If I really need it ..." (She will always give me the green light IF I say "Yes, I do" ... Awesome wife)

Seriously, the new 4 station ABLP is a new kind of animal Lee Precision put out that is a capable and cleverly designed press that addressed many "tinkering" Lee press owners complained about. I really believe OP will be pleasantly surprised and would be well suited for 45ACP loads ... Especially for caliber changes as it literally takes few minutes to change caliber (swap out dies in bushing, swap out primer foot, swap out shell plate, swap out different Auto Disk hole/powder measure ... Tada and you are reloading)

And I have nothing against Dillon presses as I was initially trained on 550B to load USPSA loads and for retirement made a full circle and got a 550C ... memories.

Here's a demo of caliber change (Jump to 4:20 minute of video) - If you have dies already set in bushings, it's a "drop in" swap. (Demo of press operation at 12:05) Pros/Cons at



BTW, Pro 1000 operation at 18:10 reloading 45ACP ... But I would still recommend ABLP/Pro 4000 kit due to easier caliber change and 4 stations for separate seat and crimp operations.

 

[kmw1954]

I have arrived at the point that trying to tell someone which press it buy is like trying to tell a person which gun to buy. We all have different tastes, needs and opinions on what is best..

I don't shoot shotguns, I don't hunt, and don't like 1911's yet I own more than a doz. handguns.

 

[PapaG]

I have had two Pro1000s and one Loadmaster. If tinkering more than loading is your thing Lee might work. Priming device sucks rotten eggs. I’d like to see the 4000 in person in operation. I have a ClassicTurret and use it for small batches. In my mind the only Lee priming methods worth using are the hand ones. I still use both1000s but not as full progressives. Batch size a bunch on a single stage, hand prime then use the Pro with expand/charge on 1, seat on two and crimp on three. That would be a great way to do a bunch of 223.

 

[LiveLife]

I have arrived at the point that trying to tell someone which press it buy is like trying to tell a person which gun to buy. We all have different tastes, needs and opinions on what is best..

I agree but there's a factor to consider for reloading, especially when it comes to presses.

If you factor "lifetime" of reloading, what @EricBu is suggesting is absolutely true. For lifetime of shooting, cost of firearms and reloading press/equipment is tiny small compared to the cost of ammunition/reloading components. During past 30 years, over $180,000 was spent on shooting/reloading related cost but over $160,000 was spent on mostly reloading components/ammunition. And this is why many seasoned reloaders having realized small cost of reloading press compared to sum of component cost will recommend buying the "best" press you can buy as whether you spend a few hundred dollars or few thousand dollars, really doesn't matter if considered from "lifetime" perspective.

I am retired and financially at a point where I can buy whatever I want to for my hobbies (Yup, I am into salt water fishing with 3 boats, one with jet drive ... Can you say one outboard motor costs like $16K - $32K+ easy depending on HP ... And you always need more than one. Heck I have a Titanium salt water reel that costs more than average reloading press and just bought 2 fish finders that would be some reloader's annual budget ... ).

But I believe using the right tool for the job. And ABLP along with refreshed post-2019 Pro 1000 is no longer the same presses Lee used to make in the 90s (Pro 1000 now dumps spent primers through ram into a tube like LCT). So while ABLP may not be Dillon 750 or FA FX-10, it certainly is capable of reloading consistent rounds, particularly with quick and easy caliber conversion (With all the tool/primer attachment onboard).

Wife and I had this same exact discussion not too long ago when 750/FX-10 were coming out (We had just spent $9,000 on four puppies she really wanted and I had to drive to PA and TX twice to pick them up and she was feeling guilty) and I kinda surprised her when I said, "Well, actually ... I am thinking if we end up getting the Mercedes Sprinter/Ram Promaster 2500 van for part-time RV conversion, smaller ABLP would be better for portable mount so I could reload and bench test at the BLM shooting spot right inside the comfort of the van at 100 yards rain or shine."

While I won't blink twice about buying (And wife would gladly "let me") the $1200 10 station FX-10, it won't be practical for part-time press to use at the range/shooting spot. And the smaller ABLP would be a breeze to set up and take down (I probably do quick detach mount bolted to the van wall).

So in the grander scheme of things, 10 station FA FX-10 and even $3000 Lyman Apex press that will allow you to put whatever die you want to use for your reloading may be a better press option with cost being absorbed into "lifetime" cost of shooting over $100K for many reloaders, compact and simpler ABLP (regardless of price) may certainly have its place in our hobby.

 

[Blue68f100]

I would suggest going middle of the road with the Hornady LNL-AP. It is a simple machine, change over is quick and easy. It's designed to run with or without a brass feeder. Without a brass feeder 300/hr is very doable. Primer change is only 1-2 min. The most expensive part of a conversion is the shell plate, ~$40. Bushing bought in bulk pack get them down to around $3 ea.

See if you can find a used one and save some more.

 

[Mark_Mark]

Really...Mark Mark has more money than Trump...he owns most of Seattle. He just has a mean wife who won't let him buy lots of cool shooting stuff.

Drinks on me when I come down To Arizona! Well on my wife, but who’s counting

 

[Mark_Mark]

My reading skills are just fine, thank you very much. But if YOU read...I'm trying to talk him out of buying a cheap press.......or at least to include the additional cost of the hair plugs he'll need to replace his natural hair trying to keep a Lee progressive running. There's cheap, and there's value. A lee progressive is cheap, but the value of the press reflects that.

My hair is has a lushness that commercials made of, why, Supplements, Grey or no hair is a sign of nutrition deficiency due to growing older. We don’t die, our cells just stop multiplying.

Anyways, I want to feel the frustration of a Cheap Lee Do-All for $250 press! I feel you can’t really complain about something until you experience it yourself!

Then I can make a fair comparison between a $250 Lee Progressive and a Dillion 750XL or a Mark 7

 

[Mark_Mark]

My true suggestion if most of what is to be done are 223 rounds would be either a used Lee 3hole turret press or a Lee Pro1000.

I can have on my bench at any one time a Lee 3 hole turret, a Lee Pro1000, Lee Auto Breech Lock Pro, Lee new model Value turret press or an RCBS JR3.

I use the 3 hole turret to load my 223 rem. but am only using 2 positions. The powder measure and the seating die. I do not crimp my bullets. All brass prep work is accomplished on the JR3 single stage and priming is also done separately, off press, as I check each pc. while in process as I use this as target ammo and not just blasting ammo in an AR platform.

I’m going with the Pro 400 just because it’s a bigger number

 

[Mark_Mark]

Been married 28 years and I can appreciate the translation to "broke" ... So, OP needs a progressive press that his wife will allow.

My wife has $10K-$15K pocket money slush fund she can do whatever whenever but if I want to spend a mere few hundred dollars on my hobby, she has to ask "If I really need it ..." (She will always give me the green light IF I say "Yes, I do" ... Awesome wife)

Seriously, the new 4 station ABLP is a new kind of animal Lee Precision put out that is a capable and cleverly designed press that addressed many "tinkering" Lee press owners complained about. I really believe OP will be pleasantly surprised and would be well suited for 45ACP loads ... Especially for caliber changes as it literally takes few minutes to change caliber (swap out dies in bushing, swap out primer foot, swap out shell plate, swap out different Auto Disk hole/powder measure ... Tada and you are reloading)

And I have nothing against Dillon presses as I was initially trained on 550B to load USPSA loads and for retirement made a full circle and got a 550C ... memories.

Here's a demo of caliber change (Jump to 4:20 minute of video) - If you have dies already set in bushings, it's a "drop in" swap. (Demo of press operation at 12:05) Pros/Cons at



BTW, Pro 1000 operation at 18:10 reloading 45ACP ... But I would still recommend ABLP/Pro 4000 kit due to easier caliber change and 4 stations for separate seat and crimp operations.

You already Know! 28 years of marriage and you’re still alive and together! Few $$$$ for them and a meager $ for us. And you are correct, I’m trying to buy something Progressive under the Wife dictator radar.

Lee Pro 400 it is! and I already got the clear this afternoon, So I need to buy it before she forget or remembers

 

[Mark_Mark]

I have arrived at the point that trying to tell someone which press it buy is like trying to tell a person which gun to buy. We all have different tastes, needs and opinions on what is best..

I don't shoot shotguns, I don't hunt, and don't like 1911's yet I own more than a doz. handguns.

that’s why we should and do buy them all!

 

[nettlle]

I want the auto indexing, I think that’s the big reason for a progressive. I just wish they make a button to temporarily stop the indexing

The big reason for a progressive is that a round is completed with each pull of the handle. Whether it's auto indexed or indexed with a thumb. I have bought a few Lee things and although I am sure Lee is a good value for the money the quality just isn't there with Lee stuff. I have a Dillon 550C. It's a tank. It's guaranteed for life regardless of who owns it. Of all the gun suppliers, reloading suppliers, gun smith suppliers, or for that matter anything else nothing can compare the customer support of Dillon.

 

[Mark_Mark]

I would suggest going middle of the road with the Hornady LNL-AP. It is a simple machine, change over is quick and easy. It's designed to run with or without a brass feeder. Without a brass feeder 300/hr is very doable. Primer change is only 1-2 min. The most expensive part of a conversion is the shell plate, ~$40. Bushing bought in bulk pack get them down to around $3 ea.

See if you can find a used one and save some more.

Mid Price Progressive will be another post! I’m confident Hornady makes a killer press but I’m only allowed $250-ish right now

 

[tightgroup tiger]

I have the Pro 4000 and it is a good press. I have the Pro 1000 from the old days and it's a piece of you know what. The newer they got the better they got.
I don't prime on mine, but you can prime on the ABLP without difficulties. It' a completely different system from the old problematic primer system Lee started out with.
One of my apprentices bought an ABLP and he's very happy with the primer system on it.
As far as running it manually, take out the die in station 4 and pull out the twisted rod and the press is manual rotation like the Dillon 550. That simple.
the die in station 4 holds the rod in place so it can turn the shell plate when it's in there.
I have probably 5000) .357mags through mine so far with no problems at all.
I was going to buy another one right before the pandemic hit but it shut that purchase down when components got scarce.

 

[Mark_Mark]

I have the Pro 4000 and it is a good press. I have the Pro 1000 from the old days and it's a piece of you know what. The newer they got the better they got.
I don't prime on mine, but you can prime on the ABLP without difficulties. It' a completely different system from the old problematic primer system Lee started out with.
One of my apprentices bought an ABLP and he's very happy with the primer system on it.
As far as running it manually, take out the die in station 4 and pull out the twisted rod and the press is manual rotation like the Dillon 550. That simple.
the die in station 4 holds the rod in place so it can turn the shell plate when it's in there.
I have probably 5000) .357mags through mine so far with no problems at all.
I was going to buy another one right before the pandemic hit but it shut that purchase down when components got scarce.

how hard is it to change from .357 to .223. I kinnda like both calibers but the .223 is not available. And I have 3 sets of .223 dies, don’t need another one

 

[nettlle]

On my Dillon 550C with an optional tool head I can change calibers in less than 5 minutes.

 

[kmw1954]

On my Dillon 550C with an optional tool head I can change calibers in less than 5 minutes.

With the threaded steel plate on my bench I can easily change between 5 different presses in less than 5 minutes..