R51 issue and questions, yes the 2nd generation

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lincen

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I was an early buyer of the first generation R51 and had very little trouble with mine other than the strange looking primer dimples after firing. Took the R1 in trade and really like it. Bought the RM380 and can honestly say it has never failed in over 500 rounds. It is my daily carry.

My local FFL had a 2nd generation R51 for $360 OTD and since I had four 1st generation mags I bought it. Took it out yesterday with 6 fully loaded magazine with three types of ammo and had 100% failures. It was like having a single shot pistol. Shot great as far as accuracy and feel but the slide would stop every time on the way back with the empty cartridge just about clear of the chamber. Also had those same strange looking dimples on the primers.

I've taken it down and do not see any obvious marks, burrs, or wear. This one is even harder to take down than the first one. I'm sure Remington will make it right but I'm really let down over this.

Do any of you guys see the same marking on the primer where it looks like some of the primer is raised up and may have flowed back around the firing pin??

I've also measured the chamber and it "seems" to be within the dimensions of other chambers that I could find online.

Any suggestions on what to look for would be greatly appreciated.
 
What ammo? The guns seem to like hotter ammo, and really hate a few specific bullets (TFB reviewer found his hated Brown Bear, my gen 1 hates Winchester White Box)

TCB
 
Most of the ammo used/tried was Remington 115. Also some MagTech 115 grain, and a few Speer Gold dot. I've put it back together and may try it again today. With the magazine out I was racking the slide to see if it would hang up, well it did once but that may have been related to the slow way I pulled. Couldn't get it to hang up so its back to the range and then back to Remington.
 
I've heard great things about the new R51. I do know however that they don't like certain inferior ammunition such as steel cased stuff. Experiment to find the best load that works reliably in the gun and carry with confidence. :)
 
Seems to me like everytime the r51 is brought up there is an issue. My carry and range pistols do not need a special "hot" ammo to operate properly. Is there a time that we call it like it is and the horse is dead or keep going back for more. Sorry to not answer a ? the r51 is the jennings j22 of our time.
 
I very much want an R51. If I can find a good deal on one, I'll get it.
If it doesn't work out I'll be ok because my 2 Makarovs work have never failed me and fill the small, thin CCW role very well.
 
I buy handguns for various reasons and the R51 is "interesting" to me because of the Pedersen action. I like the size and feel but I have several Makarovs, Sigs, revolvers, and other conceal carry guns that I would trust my life with. I also like to shot various 22 short semi-autos just for fun. I was hoping this R51 would be another gun for the range. To be honest, I don't need much of a reason to buy a handgun.

All that said I just want a range gun to work at least 99% of the time. I've tweaked my Springfield 9mm Range officer Compact from about 75% reliable to that 99 percent and that's good enough for me as I never intend to carry it.

Just want a reliable R51. I'll let you know how things progress.
 
Good luck. Given the attention to detail required to make the Pedersen action work, I suspect you're in for a lot of frustration. Remington no longer builds guns with attention to anything other that cutting corners.
 
I handled an R51 yesterday and was not impressed. The gun balanced okay and the trigger pull was fine, but the grip safety clicked every time it was engaged...it's plastic and has a cheap feel to it. Ditto for the trigger...I've had guns with polymer triggers before but this one just looked cheap. I decided not to buy one for a few years until there are lots of solid reviews and until an aftermarket metal trigger is available.
 
The gun balanced okay and the trigger pull was fine, but the grip safety clicked every time it was engaged...it's plastic and has a cheap feel to it.
Click to expand...
Grip safety is definitely aluminum. It 'clicks' because it slides over a spring-loaded locking block into a stop on the frame --it's not a 1911 grip safety. It never fails that people think it should be a ~3lb squishy-feeling lever :rolleyes:

Trigger's plastic & cheap, undoubtedly ;)

Okay, back to debugging the OP's gun;
Lincen, it really sounds like your gun isn't getting enough "go" to drive the slide fully back, right? If there's no binding on the slide rails or ejector blade or disconnector ears or magazine lips, there are only two other ways I can think of that the gun's energy would be getting sapped. Might be worth trying some heavier ammo (>115gr) since the TFB review saw that larger bullets tended to perform well (granted, ammo besides Brown Bear 115gr did meet with a lot more success than you did). Would at least tell you if your gun is at the very edge of functioning or not (which would imply some break in is all that's needed, as well as make doing that easier than one shot at a time).

One, the chamber is really rough, and the recoil energy can barely get it out of the tube --you'll see a lot of scratches on it if so, and if you hold the slide forward & fire (edge of a bench or your hand if you're brave) so it can't cycle even partially, you might find it very hard to extract manually (if there's a wallowed out area of the chamber that the case is expanding into, you'll feel it getting sqeezed back down to get through the breech).

The only other way I can think of off hand is that the slide is not getting enough initial setback to accelerate the slide sufficiently. This could be caused by too-long ammo, too-short chamber (short, not tight), or the frame/bolt gap being manufactured too tight. Apart from checking with a go-no-go gauge in the barrel and some calipers on a loaded case givnig some clear answers, your best bet is sadly Remington, most likely.

I assume all six mags were equally bad? They did change out the followers in the new ones, so maybe that's your explanation? It sucks when a new gun is buggy, but sometimes it really is just a break in issue; the AR70 I built was a jammomatic POS for the entire first range trip no matter what I did, but has been flawless ever since (even though I didn't clean after the crummy debut :p)

TCB
 
I do not understand infatuation people have for Keltecington that does not seem to work. I would just buy Kel-Tec instead.
 
Jeez, a guy has an issue with a pistol, and your only response is "you bought garbage" rather than to try & help? Handguns are simple machines, it ain't rocket science to figure out what's wrong.
 
barnbwt said:
Jeez, a guy has an issue with a pistol, and your only response is "you bought garbage" rather than to try & help? Handguns are simple machines, it ain't rocket science to figure out what's wrong.
Click to expand...
That message needs to be sent to people at Remington Arms.
 
Jaymo said:
I very much want an R51. If I can find a good deal on one, I'll get it.
If it doesn't work out I'll be ok because my 2 Makarovs work have never failed me and fill the small, thin CCW role very well.
Click to expand...
To claim a modern tactical R51 is inferior to a 1950's designed Makarov is just laughable at best.

Do yourself a favor and ditch the archaic commie gun and go buy yourself a modern American masterpiece that is the Remington R51. Thank me later. :cool:
 
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Cooldill, my guess is you are in the super extreme minority that would match an incredibly reliable Makarov with the word "archaic" AND this second round "improved" version of the R51 as a "masterpiece". Wow! This may prove to be Remington's "Ford Pinto". It's bad enough that Remington released this problem gun in the first place but IF, and am stressing "IF" Remington rereleased this "fixed and improved" and it indeed flubs again, well I can politely say that I wouldn't trust any Remington product for a LONG, LONG time!
 
barnbwt said:
Jeez, a guy has an issue with a pistol, and your only response is "you bought garbage" rather than to try & help? Handguns are simple machines, it ain't rocket science to figure out what's wrong.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately the OP bought a garbage pistol, and rather than diagnosing the issue himself would be better off sending his expensive new paper weight back to Remington. So they can attempt to fix it. Judging by most feedback I've read about on the R51 v2.0 Remington will fail miserably to make the pistol work correctly.

There are so many good quality alternative single stack 9mm carry pistols out there it boggles my mind why anyone would take a chance on one given the recent history of Remington and the R51 specifically.
 
As I said in an earlier post, I don't really need a reason to buy a handgun. I like the different ways that have been engineered to produce the same or similar result in handguns. Probably more of a collector than some of the folks that have posted. I have a S&W 9mm Shield and a Sig P938 that have served me well in the single stack 9 category.

Thank you barnbwt for your most helpful advice. I do have some 124 grain that I can try. I was hoping you would join this conversation as I've learned that you have the most technical and unbiased information on the R51. I did not buy Gen2 R51 blindly or quickly. There are folks already with 500+ rounds with no issue, I'm just not one of them.......yet.

Thank you all !
 
Your probably right about resale price. My plans are, Lord willing, to keep it for a long time, especially if it will function properly. Most of my guns are shooters, almost like a tool. I buy them, use them, clean them, and keep them.
 
Coal Dragger said:
I don't understand why people keep buying these things.
Click to expand...



Coal Dragger said:
There are so many good quality alternative single stack 9mm carry pistols out there it boggles my mind why anyone would take a chance on one given the recent history of Remington and the R51 specifically.
Click to expand...



I'll try to help un-boggle your mind by reposting the very first sentence in the OP


lincen said:
I was an early buyer of the first generation R51 and had very little trouble with mine other than the strange looking primer dimples after firing.
Click to expand...
 
Round two with the new R51 was at first encouraging and then not so.

First magazine of 115 grain feed perfectly and then the gun became a single shot again. Tried all the combinations I could, 115 and 124 grain, new mags and old mags, made no difference.

Back to Remington it goes.

Again, thank you all for being part of this process.
 
Cooldill, um, I don't even know quite how to respond.
Makarovs are accurate and they are reliable to a fault.
Where is the downside of that?

Your reply reminds me of the Harley fanboys who tell me to get a "real" bike, because I ride a Japanese bike. Never mind all the Japanese parts in a modern Harley.

Anyhoo, how is an unreliable, new-production R51 better than a reliable Makarov?
If anything, the Jammington is a more obsolete design than the Mak.

I'll keep looking for a 3913/3914, just in case the R51 2,0 turns out to be a stink burger.
 
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