Real Life shootout

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1776 Rebel

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I enjoy the comments and thoughts in this section. My own views on self defense have been shaped by growing up in a lousy part of NYC. These formative years saw me having to adapt to gangs, police raids, murders and drug dealers on a daily basis. No different than millions of others. In sum I practice "combat advoidance". I don't hang out at strip clubs, bars, or nasty areas of town. I pick my friends carefully and have no problem running away.

So here I am this morning watching the Communist News Network. I do this regularly to study the enemy. On comes this video regards a grocery store hold up in Milwaukee. There is so much of this on the news that I am not particularly engaged. Then I see something worthy of watching. How the customers in this store are reacting. Well I haven't seen anything like this at Gunsite!!! The link below is of the video. Watch for the woman in the flourescent green jacket walking right thru the gunfire.

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2008/04/15/vo.wi.grocery.shootout.wisn

So here is the question. How would YOU deal with this kind of wild situation? From begining to end. I think there are several times in this short video one could have had major decision points.


Let me add here the AP story for context:

Milwaukee police use tape to try to catch shooter

Associated Press

MILWAUKEE (AP) — Police used a surveillance tape Monday in an attempt to find a man shown trying to rob a Milwaukee grocery store and getting in a shootout with a clerk.


According to police, the tape shown on local television news programs shows the man entering Villard Food and Liquor Sunday afternoon and getting in a tussle with store personnel, including one who swings a baseball bat at him before the man leaves.

The man re-enters the store a few minutes later, this time with a handgun, but a clerk also has a gun and aims it at him.

The man can be seen going out a door, then turning and firing as a clerk also fires, while a woman who was shopping walks through, seemingly oblivious to the gunfire.
No injuries were reported.

Police Capt. Christopher Domagalski said no arrests had been made as of Monday night in the case.
 
That happened at no more than 7 yards, once again showing how close real-life gunfights are. The fact that both missed also goes to show how hard it is to hit a target when it is shooting back at you.

That woman looks like she's trying to sneak a case of beer in her jacket...
 
Someone needed more range time. Nah...couldn't be that. :rolleyes:

They must have been using 9mms. :evil: If they'd been packing Colt 1911s in .45 ACP, well, that would have been that. :neener:
 
yeah, it kinda looks like that woman is up to something... like shes trying to clear the scene before the cops arrive...

i saw something similar on tv the other night... was a video of a bar getting robbed... there were 3 robbers but only one pulled a gun... so this guy customer tackles him and starts whipping his ass... well the 2 accomplices walk up and pull guns on him... at that point he runs... they throw a bottle that bounces off his nose while hes running out the door... about this time a woman walks out of the the restroom, sees this robbery and calmly pulls her cell phone out, stops and stands in the middle of the bar with 3 people drawing down on her and calls 911... she didnt seem to be concerned at all with the three guys with guns pointed at her... it almost looked like she didnt believe it was real... i couldnt believe what i was seeing
 
I'm surprised no one's pointed out that the clerk was holding his gun sideways. I suspect that may be why he couldn't hit crap.
 
After watching it a couple of times, I wonder if she was in on it the whole time.

This whole thing is too weird to begin with. The wannabe robber is very casually strolling out for someone having a gun pointed at him. Almost seems fake.

Maybe these guys are used to it though?
 
Things always seem "calm" when you can't hear what is going on like in surveillance videos.

Would it really cost that much more to have sound on surveillance videos? Seems to me that hearing the voice of the criminals might help with people saying, "Yeah that looks kinda like so-n-so, If i could hear him I might be able to tell."
 
"yeah mutha eff-a, Imma steal yo boozes mutha eff-a. what you gots a bat? Mutha eff-a I owns this mutha eff-a, Imma come back in this mutha eff-a and shoot this mutha eff-a up"

meanwhile I scream like a girl, keep repeating "omg don't shoot me", duck and run, so I can draw from cover and not be shot. Nothing screams shoot me more than a 6' 240lb guy with red in his eyes trying to jerk a pistol from an IWB holster. I have to be the one to respond to the threat because I'm probably the only guy in the place that is carrying.

That's how it goes down in my mind, but I'm sure when it really happens I'll probably stand there for a few seconds goin "think... think... what was I gonna do?" then turn and trip on a salsa jar and get shot in the ass.
 
I'm gonna have to admit it would probably go down like Tarvis says... kinda... not many of us have actually been in a real time, live fire-fight to say exactly how we'd react... we know how we'd like to react, and be hero for a day though...

my plan would be to find cover and toss a can of tomato soup at the guy to get him to look my way... and well, do what's necessary... LOL... (looks for that stray jar of salsa...)
 
That's how it goes down in my mind, but I'm sure when it really happens I'll probably stand there for a few seconds goin "think... think... what was I gonna do?" then turn and trip on a salsa jar and get shot in the ass.
Click to expand...
ROFL :D:D:D
 
Someone needed more range time. Nah...couldn't be that.

LOL, so true.

They must have been using 9mms. If they'd been packing Colt 1911s in .45 ACP, well, that would have been that.

Yes, but since the odds are that the clerk has only fired the gun once, with the 45 ACP he may had hit the customer. Jail time and lawsuit to follow.
_________________
 
In the end, this is the domain of murphy's law. Also, a proverb comes to mind: "You will never rise to the occasion. The best you will ever do is default to your highest level of training."
 
That's how it goes down in my mind, but I'm sure when it really happens I'll probably stand there for a few seconds goin "think... think... what was I gonna do?" then turn and trip on a salsa jar and get shot in the ass.
Click to expand...

I'm a little teary over that... :D And in public... Kind of emberassing. :)

I think we all know that the firts thing one should do in a situation like this is take cover. What most people don't understand is that the last thing you should do is shoot. The guy on your side of the counter is obviously the bad guy, right? No. Possibly.

Here's what I'd do:

First thing, obviously, take cover, preferably behind the chip aisle because I love Doritos. This will make more sense in a minute.

I have no idea what the altercation truly entails, so I squat low and ready. If I have enough cover I make a moat out of Doritos. I may be down there a while, so some sustenance may be necessary. Anyway, I hear gunfire, then footsteps...

Who got shot? If it's the customer, we're probably in the clear, call out to the clerk and assure clear before breaking cover. If it's the clerk who was shot, two things can happen. Fortunately, they both result in me getting some Doritos.

I hear gunfire, then footsteps. The footsteps come toward me. I hear crackling on the Dorito moat, badguy may run away, but at tis point he is in my sights. If he still has his gun in hand, he's toast. I then grab a bag of Doritos and munch on them untilt he police arrive.

Second option, clerk is shot and badguy leaves. Clerk may be dead, in which case I eat his Doritos and call the cops. If wounded, I eat his Doritos and tell him to put pressure on the wound until the cops arrive.
 
If I worked in a store I would be wary of any guy wearing baggy clothes and hoodie.I would have a snubby in my front pocket and my hand on it the whole time he was in the store.That's not profiling that's common sense.I would also watch anyone near the Doritos lol.
 
You guys would be amazed how stupid people really are (if you aren't already).

I work in a crowded ghetto, and we deal with serious criminals on a fairly regular basis... I've made a number of felony traffic stops (defined briefly: officers stay at their cars with guns drawn on vehicle stopped, call occupants out of vehicle, etc) where citizens have walked right between us and the stopped vehicle.

In the heat of adrenaline we sometimes yell things like "Hey, what the F are you doing?". They look at you like you have two heads and give a confused response of "I was just crossing the street officer".

Personally, I might take an extra few steps to avoid walking in front of ten guns pointed down range. At the very least, I guess the citizens trust our trigger control!
 
To the person who asked why no sound... I just installed some video surveillance equipment for our company. There are more legal hoops to record sound than there is video. Gets into the whole "wire-tapping" thing.

I believe releases must be signed first, which might cut down on the flow of customers into the store. But yes, when we do sound on our videos it gives you a hundred time's better idea of what's actually going on.
 
depends on the state, a lot of states will let a business put up a sign saying "audio recording is done at this location, entering gives your consent"
 
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