old lady new shooter
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They should still be able to get the location via GPS.
Rebuffed scammers call the law on victims
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old lady new shooter
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Mea culpa, my experience in this area is from before VoIP, that's a whole nother ballgame.According to the telcos they can. They don't like to admit not being in control of their own equipment but you can bet it's true. All those VoIP companies are essentially spoofing their caller ID's they send out to the world. Some of them allow you to not send any data among other things. But the thing is there are places that have the same technology that exist outside the US. It's very easy to make untraceable calls using those offshore services. The governments of the countries where it takes place couldn't care less. If they think their people are making money they actually think it's a good thing. In fact our own government is probably the worst for providing information to telemarketers. They sell lists of homeowners, taxpayers, etc.. They will do anything for a buck. They couldn't care less about spoofed calls either. For example did you know there is a law against spoofing in the US? But how often does it happen? How many calls a day do you get that are spoofed? They might pass a law to make themselves look good on election day but actually doing something about it is another story.
Skype is a particularly bad offender in this area. Any hacker with a minimal knowledge of how the systems work can bounce their calls around the world several times before actually getting to their target. Tracing those calls is just impossible as is enforcing laws against spoofing. The law doesn't even cover all the major ways spoofing is done.
Here's a quote from a web page on the subject:
" individuals who want to spoof their caller ID can use a commercial third party provider. Here are four that you can readily find on the web: Spoofcard, Telespoof, Spooftel, and Itellas. All of these services, as well as Google, operate as call re-originators meaning that the spoofing service provider places the actual call to the desired target number, and bridges the outbound call to the originator’s line. During the process they substitute a fake caller ID that is delivered to the far end. The originator either dials an access number and inputs his desired destination and spoof ID, or initiates the process over a web interface where the service provider places calls to both the originating and terminating line and bridges them together."
So you see your ANI information is not transmitted by the spoof calling host. They actually call you and the number you want to call and link the calls together so there is no way the evidence sent via ANI is ever available to anyone on the receiving end of such phone calls unless the spoofing host gives it up and they survive by being a buffer. They don't want to give it up easy.
Read the whole article on the page I linked to. It will give you the low down on the way things are being done. Again third party spoofers act as a buffer between caller and the person being called so that "no" data is sent to the person being called except the information of the spoofing company which in the worst cases exists outside the USA.
I don't really want to go on and on about this. It is just true that calls can be made with not way of tracing them other than going through a months long process of tracing. That's how they catch people who release the major malware programs into the wild. If you notice it takes them a good while to trace back to the originator of the information because hackers know how to bounce their stuff around the world several times before it gets where they want it. That's an old technology that was commonly used during the bot wars of the 90's. Use a few gateways scattered around the world hidden on unsuspecting host computers and before you know it you can make your stuff seem like the recipient sent it. I know how to do that stuff. It was part of my old job to know how it works. I was a computer consultant and security was always a primary concern. My best friend was head of computer security for Blockbuster video back during the time they had brick and mortar stores around the country. We used to sit around and figure out ways to steal millions of dollars. It can be done. Or at least it could back then. I've been out of that game a while now. Obviously I didn't actually steal anything. I didn't want to move to Tierra del Fuego.
Kaeto
Member
Those pre-paid phones generally don't have GPS.
TwinReverb
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Yeah and even if they could, life isn't CSI. Rarely to local police forces have CSI-level resources to track down random non-lethal, non-violent criminals.
And you're right: if the phone don't have GPS, they probably won't bother trying to locate where it was when it called unless the case is noteworthy enough or has done something that interests the DHS (terrorism, etc).
Again, best option is to have a phone that has caller ID and/or reverse look-up (some of the newer smart phones have it). That and be vigilant and aware, and smart.
And not use your phone number as your user name to log into Facebook. I had that happen to me: someone I helped turned out to be a scammer (though they didn't get more than $20 from me). Got a bunch of login attempts on Facebook. They all failed (I used dual authentication), but the person at least attempted it.
And you're right: if the phone don't have GPS, they probably won't bother trying to locate where it was when it called unless the case is noteworthy enough or has done something that interests the DHS (terrorism, etc).
Again, best option is to have a phone that has caller ID and/or reverse look-up (some of the newer smart phones have it). That and be vigilant and aware, and smart.
And not use your phone number as your user name to log into Facebook. I had that happen to me: someone I helped turned out to be a scammer (though they didn't get more than $20 from me). Got a bunch of login attempts on Facebook. They all failed (I used dual authentication), but the person at least attempted it.
No problem. Stick around long enough and you'll definitely see me say something completely dopey. What you said was true at one time. It's just been a while. Trust me I can say things completely off the wall at times. Then I hit reset and turn my brain back on.
RetiredUSNChief
Member
Well, I narrowly avoided being swatted yesterday!
My phone rang, waking me from a nap. Caller ID said "804". Strange...and suspicious.
I answered and an automated voice said "Your Bank of America debit card has been frozen. Please press 1 for our security division."
I don't have a Bank of America card, so I hung up before I said something stupid and got swatted!
My phone rang, waking me from a nap. Caller ID said "804". Strange...and suspicious.
I answered and an automated voice said "Your Bank of America debit card has been frozen. Please press 1 for our security division."
I don't have a Bank of America card, so I hung up before I said something stupid and got swatted!
Jim Watson
Member
The first reports of SWATting that I heard of were by poor loser online gamers. Spread now to disgruntled online salesmen and scammers. As Jerry Pournelle says, these people should be located and caused to feel physical pain. Hard to do, though.
ATT offers in some areas - not mine - a secret code number system. You furnish authorized callers an extra code to append to your phone number. Somebody who dials your number at random or reads it off the restroom wall will not get through without the code.
ATT offers in some areas - not mine - a secret code number system. You furnish authorized callers an extra code to append to your phone number. Somebody who dials your number at random or reads it off the restroom wall will not get through without the code.
larry_minn
Member
`Sadly people are able to not only block caller ID but to fake where call is comming from.
I'm sure openly talking of violating a person's civil rights is good for his bravado/ego, but in the real world, cops who think they are above the law are at the core of societies' issues with law enforcement, and nonsense like this only serves to promote the idea some cops see the law as only a sugestion as to how they are to behave.. I have no time whatsoever for "cops" like your brother in law. They do more damage with such talk then they'll ever do good talking such smack. Even if it is "just talk" he helps NO ONE with his attitude, and does his fellow officers, as well as anyone who wears the badge, a disservice. Really, other than reinforcing negative stereotypes, what does such bragging do? It certainly doesn't give people a warm, happy feeling regarding cops when they say things like people deserve to be shot for not giving them an sufficient (in THEIR eyes) amount of attention in a given situation...you know...like not answering your door of all things! I wonder if people like your brother in law even pause to think about the damage such gems do when shared with the world at large?
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LemmyCaution
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They say sunlight is the best medicine. As such, the officer's comments are actually helpful. By confirming the increasingly popular notion that police not only have this attitude, but are willing to act on it, he is providing incentive and justification for reforming what are obviously broken attitudes in our country toward law enforcement.
The only thing to which he's doing damage is the status quo, which does not hold the police adequately to account and is unduly credulous of police narratives of conflict with the public they serve.
Not that any of this is germane to the topic at hand.
Ash
Member
I got pulled over in 1995 in Tuscaloosa, Alabama on Interstate 20/59 southbound, by a motorcycle officer. I was driving from Birmingham to southern Mississippi in a green Chevy C-1500 Cheyenne.
What did I do? I was passing through with my cruise control set. In the right lane was the officer on his motorcycle doing about ten miles under the limit. Going through towns, I always set the cruise to exactly the speed limit. So, I'm doing about ten over him. I put on the blinker, move to the left lane, and overtake the officer. I was obeying all traffic laws and was not exceeding the speed limit.
About the Moundville exit in south-west Tuscaloosa I notice his lights flashing, pulling me over. I pull over on the side of the interstate. He comes to my window and I ask him if there was a problem. I was not speeding, nor was I in the wrong lane nor weaving. There literally was no legal reason for me to be pulled over that I knew of.
The officer was angry. I mean he was livid, nostrils flaring, mad. He told me that he had pulled me over because I disrespected him. Really? Overtaking an officer doing ten miles under the limit is disrespect?
Being fresh out of college, I naturally yes sir'd and no sir'd him until I had satisfied his anger and he went on his way. He was already escalating the situation, I would not make it worse.
I should not have been put into that situation by an officer of the law. There was no excuse in it. I had no cell phone or any means to record our experience so at that moment I knew he could say or do anything and I would be the loser. I could not win.
That day I learned a very important lesson about officers of the law. Many are good. I know quite a few who are. A few are bad. The bad ones have the power to do things, say things, make up things, and I can do very little in the moment about it. Nobody here has enough clout to reliably do anything in the moment.
Only later can things be sorted out. What will I have gone through before then?
My wife's car, a Ford Escort, was parked at my office back in 2005, at night. She was using my Cherokee and I was on a back packing trip. The street is about 3 blocks long and my office was midway down the street. At the end of the block was the police station. At about 2:00 AM, an officer came tearing around the corner from the police station and t-boned my wife's car at the right rear quarter, hitting it hard enough to spin it about. They called her up to the scene (out of bed and having to get our 3 month old son out of the crib) to drive down there. She arrived and was immediately cited for not having her driver's license with her. She was then accused of illegally parking her car in such a way as to cause the accident. The officer was merely doing safety checks of the buildings and she had caused the accident by having her car wrongly parked.
Because it was an officer-invovled accident, the Sheriff's department investigated. In the morning, they discovered the tire marks from where my wife's car was spun about. They determined the officer was doing at least 45 mph on a 25 mph street. They determined the officer had lied on her report. The Escort was totaled and the city settled the damages. They were even nice enough to drop the license deal since she was waken out of bed to take care of the wreck.
In the moment, the officer lied through her teeth and tried to lay all blame on my wife. It was settled later. Of course, what would have happened if my wife responded indignantly to the officer's accusations and was taken to jail for disorderly conduct and our son placed into state custody until it was sorted out? How can you undo that? It does happen.
If I do not know an officer, I cannot assume he will be one of the good ones. I cannot trust an officer in that way because they can lie like anyone else, they can get angry like anyone else, they can misbehave like anyone else.
So, if I get swatted, what happens? It all depends on the cops that show up. It might end without anything other than a courteous knock on my door. It will probably involve damage to my house and potential harm to my body. It might involve my death.
That is just the way it is.
What did I do? I was passing through with my cruise control set. In the right lane was the officer on his motorcycle doing about ten miles under the limit. Going through towns, I always set the cruise to exactly the speed limit. So, I'm doing about ten over him. I put on the blinker, move to the left lane, and overtake the officer. I was obeying all traffic laws and was not exceeding the speed limit.
About the Moundville exit in south-west Tuscaloosa I notice his lights flashing, pulling me over. I pull over on the side of the interstate. He comes to my window and I ask him if there was a problem. I was not speeding, nor was I in the wrong lane nor weaving. There literally was no legal reason for me to be pulled over that I knew of.
The officer was angry. I mean he was livid, nostrils flaring, mad. He told me that he had pulled me over because I disrespected him. Really? Overtaking an officer doing ten miles under the limit is disrespect?
Being fresh out of college, I naturally yes sir'd and no sir'd him until I had satisfied his anger and he went on his way. He was already escalating the situation, I would not make it worse.
I should not have been put into that situation by an officer of the law. There was no excuse in it. I had no cell phone or any means to record our experience so at that moment I knew he could say or do anything and I would be the loser. I could not win.
That day I learned a very important lesson about officers of the law. Many are good. I know quite a few who are. A few are bad. The bad ones have the power to do things, say things, make up things, and I can do very little in the moment about it. Nobody here has enough clout to reliably do anything in the moment.
Only later can things be sorted out. What will I have gone through before then?
My wife's car, a Ford Escort, was parked at my office back in 2005, at night. She was using my Cherokee and I was on a back packing trip. The street is about 3 blocks long and my office was midway down the street. At the end of the block was the police station. At about 2:00 AM, an officer came tearing around the corner from the police station and t-boned my wife's car at the right rear quarter, hitting it hard enough to spin it about. They called her up to the scene (out of bed and having to get our 3 month old son out of the crib) to drive down there. She arrived and was immediately cited for not having her driver's license with her. She was then accused of illegally parking her car in such a way as to cause the accident. The officer was merely doing safety checks of the buildings and she had caused the accident by having her car wrongly parked.
Because it was an officer-invovled accident, the Sheriff's department investigated. In the morning, they discovered the tire marks from where my wife's car was spun about. They determined the officer was doing at least 45 mph on a 25 mph street. They determined the officer had lied on her report. The Escort was totaled and the city settled the damages. They were even nice enough to drop the license deal since she was waken out of bed to take care of the wreck.
In the moment, the officer lied through her teeth and tried to lay all blame on my wife. It was settled later. Of course, what would have happened if my wife responded indignantly to the officer's accusations and was taken to jail for disorderly conduct and our son placed into state custody until it was sorted out? How can you undo that? It does happen.
If I do not know an officer, I cannot assume he will be one of the good ones. I cannot trust an officer in that way because they can lie like anyone else, they can get angry like anyone else, they can misbehave like anyone else.
So, if I get swatted, what happens? It all depends on the cops that show up. It might end without anything other than a courteous knock on my door. It will probably involve damage to my house and potential harm to my body. It might involve my death.
That is just the way it is.
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ironworkerwill
Member
Ash, LEO are people too, therefore they are fallible and should not be trusted any more than the average Joe.
Most times the best thing to do is "Yes Sir" the heck out of them and be as polite as humanly possible. Having lots of bystanders also keeps everyone honest.
As others have suggested, I agree, one should make the visiting officer have a warrant before gaining entry to your home.
Most times the best thing to do is "Yes Sir" the heck out of them and be as polite as humanly possible. Having lots of bystanders also keeps everyone honest.
As others have suggested, I agree, one should make the visiting officer have a warrant before gaining entry to your home.
Ash
Member
The point is, if it is a swatting, you likely will not be able to make the officer get a warning. 4th Amendment is irrelevant in the heat of the moment. By insisting to see a warrant, are you now resisting arrest? Knock the door down, bust your face in?
Already it is established that an officer can shoot you in your own home if you are armed and be perfectly legitimate in doing so. You're at home, have been swatted, and a no-knock burst into your house happens. You are three feet away from your shotgun. Blam, blam, blam, blam, blam, blam, blam, blam, blam, blam, blam...too bad you were going for it (even if you weren't). Oh well.
Like I said, it depends on who shows up. These days, it is more likely a paramilitary squad will show up.
Already it is established that an officer can shoot you in your own home if you are armed and be perfectly legitimate in doing so. You're at home, have been swatted, and a no-knock burst into your house happens. You are three feet away from your shotgun. Blam, blam, blam, blam, blam, blam, blam, blam, blam, blam, blam...too bad you were going for it (even if you weren't). Oh well.
Like I said, it depends on who shows up. These days, it is more likely a paramilitary squad will show up.
As many times as cops did good things for me when I was a reckless lunatic teenager (like picking me up and giving me a ride home when trying to hitchhike the 10 miles of country roads to my house at 11 pm - I was too young to have a driver's license) there have been more that have harassed me beyond belief for no good reason whatsoever. Like the Indiana state cop who pulled me over because he thought I shouldn't be in an area and telling me not to ever come back. I wasn't doing anything but taking a Sunday drive with my wife looking at a nice lake but not even stopping there. Apparently the high and mighty muckity mucks didn't like people in their cushy neighborhood (which wasn't that nice anyway). Or the cop who asked me 1500 times if I had been drinking because I had hit a "barrier" they had placed across a parking lot driving area. The barrier consisted of a 3" piece of gray steel just put up across the street portion of the parking lot. Behind it was a gray concrete wall and there were no signs of any kind to warn me I was about to bush my windshield. The city was at fault and he knew it but he wanted a DUI to cover their rears. No matter. The police wrote it up as totally my fault (even though they broke every DOT regulation in the book) and my insurance got a bill to replace their valuable piece of steel. They had bolted 2 sign posts together and strung them across the alley for who knows what reason. I guess they didn't want people in that lot. All I was doing was taking what I thought was an alley to the next block over. That cop told me everyone drank even though I assured him I never touched the stuff. No matter what I said his response was, "You sure you haven't been drinking," like I was just going to blurt it out for him. Moron.
I know certain segments of society get treated even worse. I've seen that happen. But they don't get that everyone gets treated that way to an extent by cops who want to be Dirty Harry. I do believe that cop would have shot me if given the slightest reason. I have heard too many cops go on about how they wanted to kill someone really, really bad. It's generally some rule crazy Nazi type that thinks a badge is the equivalent of a crown.
I know certain segments of society get treated even worse. I've seen that happen. But they don't get that everyone gets treated that way to an extent by cops who want to be Dirty Harry. I do believe that cop would have shot me if given the slightest reason. I have heard too many cops go on about how they wanted to kill someone really, really bad. It's generally some rule crazy Nazi type that thinks a badge is the equivalent of a crown.
Carl N. Brown
Member
People who do SWATing calls may claim to be "pranking" but the danger of over-reaction by police and/or by people getting swatted is very real.
I do worry about SWATing as an anti-gun tactic. Ever so often, commenters on gun control discussion threads will suggest SWATing carry permit holders as a tactic to punish/discourage legal gun ownership (such comments are often deleted by the administrators but they have been spotted).
I think most local cops are not the type to overreact, but I have known two that were too eager to assert their authority beyond what was necessary.
I do worry about SWATing as an anti-gun tactic. Ever so often, commenters on gun control discussion threads will suggest SWATing carry permit holders as a tactic to punish/discourage legal gun ownership (such comments are often deleted by the administrators but they have been spotted).
I think most local cops are not the type to overreact, but I have known two that were too eager to assert their authority beyond what was necessary.
1stmarine
Member
These are dangerous times in deed. We had similar situations in the 50's where fear and ignorance led to huge civil rights and constitutional violations during the mccarthyism.
The best we can do is to educate our kids, family and others to make sure they understand their most fundamental rights.
A good start could be to follow the equal justice foundation at ... http://www.ejfi.org/
The Equal Justice Foundation is a nonprofit organization of citizens from all walks of life working to:
• Restore due process.
• Reverse the loss of our civil liberties.
• Ensure equality for all citizens before the bar.
• Establish judicial accountability.
• Reestablish the rule of law.
• Maintain property rights and enforcement of contracts.
• Define marriage as a contract between men and women to provide for the upbringing and education of their children without collectivist interference.
• Preserve the secret ballot.
• Ensure open, fair, and honest elections.
• Make the Bill of Rights a living document in our time.
Our viewpoints and findings are presented by an eclectic array of male and female authors from a wide variety of fields, backgrounds, and viewpoints.
Fundamental Liberties
The Equal Justice Foundation works to insure that:
• Citizens shall not be torn from their homes and children in the middle of the night based on nothing more than hearsay.
• Men and women shall not be presumed guilty until they can prove their innocence.
• A secret tribunal shall not have the power to force a man from his home without notice or hearing.
• Police shall not have the right to enter and search a citizen's home without a warrant.
• Citizens shall not be imprisoned based only on hearsay.
• Citizens are not more afraid of the police than they are of criminals.
• A legal system exists that does not tolerate perjury or the subornation of perjury.
• Citizens shall not be censured by public officials for crimes they have not committed.
• Men and women are not made to work as indentured servants or held in thrall to others for acts they have not committed.
• A marriage license does not make men and women servants of the State or give courts possession of their children.
The best we can do is to educate our kids, family and others to make sure they understand their most fundamental rights.
A good start could be to follow the equal justice foundation at ... http://www.ejfi.org/
The Equal Justice Foundation is a nonprofit organization of citizens from all walks of life working to:
• Restore due process.
• Reverse the loss of our civil liberties.
• Ensure equality for all citizens before the bar.
• Establish judicial accountability.
• Reestablish the rule of law.
• Maintain property rights and enforcement of contracts.
• Define marriage as a contract between men and women to provide for the upbringing and education of their children without collectivist interference.
• Preserve the secret ballot.
• Ensure open, fair, and honest elections.
• Make the Bill of Rights a living document in our time.
Our viewpoints and findings are presented by an eclectic array of male and female authors from a wide variety of fields, backgrounds, and viewpoints.
Fundamental Liberties
The Equal Justice Foundation works to insure that:
• Citizens shall not be torn from their homes and children in the middle of the night based on nothing more than hearsay.
• Men and women shall not be presumed guilty until they can prove their innocence.
• A secret tribunal shall not have the power to force a man from his home without notice or hearing.
• Police shall not have the right to enter and search a citizen's home without a warrant.
• Citizens shall not be imprisoned based only on hearsay.
• Citizens are not more afraid of the police than they are of criminals.
• A legal system exists that does not tolerate perjury or the subornation of perjury.
• Citizens shall not be censured by public officials for crimes they have not committed.
• Men and women are not made to work as indentured servants or held in thrall to others for acts they have not committed.
• A marriage license does not make men and women servants of the State or give courts possession of their children.
Jim Watson
Member
IAsh said: "I always set the cruise to exactly the speed limit."
Surely you have heard the probably apocryphal story about the police academy lecture on speeding:
If they are exceeding the speed limit, they are breaking the law, ticket them.
If they are driving under the speed limit, they are probably being extra careful because they are driving impaired, which is illegal; arrest them.
If they are driving right at the speed limit, they are probably hiding something, check them out.
Surely you have heard the probably apocryphal story about the police academy lecture on speeding:
If they are exceeding the speed limit, they are breaking the law, ticket them.
If they are driving under the speed limit, they are probably being extra careful because they are driving impaired, which is illegal; arrest them.
If they are driving right at the speed limit, they are probably hiding something, check them out.
http://www.bedlamfarm.com/2015/05/2...s-cruelty-injustice-and-the-death-of-privacy/
According to this article, forms of SWATing are already a tactic being used by animal rights activists, very similar to SWATing of the variety being encouraged by anti groups. Goes to show how much damage a police response/investigation can cause even when no laws are broken. In this case filing false reports/lies are being used to harass lawful citizens who for whatever reason are offending PETA or even just "activist" minded individuals.
According to this article, forms of SWATing are already a tactic being used by animal rights activists, very similar to SWATing of the variety being encouraged by anti groups. Goes to show how much damage a police response/investigation can cause even when no laws are broken. In this case filing false reports/lies are being used to harass lawful citizens who for whatever reason are offending PETA or even just "activist" minded individuals.
Oiy. I hate to go off topic again but civil rights issues had nothing to do with McCarthy. And just for the record everything that Joe said was proven to be true when the Soviet archives were made public. Every person he said was a spy was a spy. There's plenty of proof of that. Actually the CIA knew all along that the people he was calling spies were spies. They're the ones that gave him the list. They got their information from intercepted cable communications with the Soviets. The media slandered Joe like crazy in no small part because the media was invaded by commies. I just wish that we could stop smearing the name of a guy who tried to do what he thought was best.
Civil rights violations were the result of racism not McCarthy. McCarthy had very little impact on anyone or anything in fact because the media shot him down just like they shot down Scott Walker yesterday for saying something people have been thinking for years. It's something that has already happened in Canada that he warned about. So the fact the media went after Joe doesn't impress me. What impresses me is how little resistance to the media juggernaut existed at the time. They defended the Rosenbergs too. And they were guilty as sin. Maybe you think selling nuclear secrets to our mortal enemy was a good thing. I don't. Still the media defended them along with Alger Hiss - also guilty. The media in the 50's was NOT a reputatable source of information of any kind. Remember this was shortly after the NY Times printed that Stalin was not deliberately starving people - he was.
Ash
Member
"If they are driving right at the speed limit, they are probably hiding something, check them out."
He sure checked me out
He sure checked me out
1stmarine
Member
Cee, I am not saying it was all McCarthy's fault but it was representative of a time where people lived in real fear and accused based speculation on hearsay. After all many politicians are there to exploit those situations of fear. I know racism was very real too.
They also suspected of Murrow and they had the fbi looking at him and his staff. We will never find any indication nor proof that Murrow was a spy for the soviets. Actually quite the opposite. He was an amazing broadcaster who took lots of risks while others chose safety.
But any others please let me know any materials. I would like to read and learn more.
I am trying to find any material that explain how everyone investigated by HUAC was truly an spy. Maybe the encyclopedia is not up to date. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_Un-American_Activities_Committee
They also suspected of Murrow and they had the fbi looking at him and his staff. We will never find any indication nor proof that Murrow was a spy for the soviets. Actually quite the opposite. He was an amazing broadcaster who took lots of risks while others chose safety.
But any others please let me know any materials. I would like to read and learn more.
I am trying to find any material that explain how everyone investigated by HUAC was truly an spy. Maybe the encyclopedia is not up to date. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_Un-American_Activities_Committee
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So SENATOR McCarthy had influence over the HOUSE UnAmerican Committee you say? Think about that. McCarthy wasn't in the house and he never accused Murrow. But if you want the whole story on the VENONA Intercepts that led to the arrest of the Rosenbergs and the list of names that McCarthy worked from. And McCarthy had nothing to do with racism BTW. Here's a tidbit of info about the intercepts from the NSA:
https://www.nsa.gov/public_info/declass/venona/
Then there's this:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Venona-Secrets-Definitive-Espionage/dp/1621572951
The book is "The Venona Secrets: The Definitive Exposé of Soviet Espionage in America"
Essentially it proves the state department was overrun by Soviet agents. There are other books on the subject including a definitive study by two authors that I'm having trouble remembering right now. I know that Ann Coulter wrote a book, "Treason", based on the work of those two authors. You see more noise being generated about the issue now because a sacred cow of the left has been gored and they don't like it. So naturally they go for their primary weapon - personal attacks.
It may be true that Coulter was over the top in her book - that's what she does. But she based her book on another book that wasn't at all sensational and I'm sorry but I can't remember the name or who wrote it. It will come to me soon.
I know McCarthy was over the top and probably hurt his own cause because of it but he was scared by what he saw. He didn't react well but his basic premise - that the state department was infested with Soviet spies - is now a proven fact.
Again he had nothing to do with the house unAmerican committee and their excesses. He wasn't even in the house. But he was unfairly targeted by the media. They destroyed him because they were also influenced by the Soviets.
There are other sources of info on this subject including the Soviet archives. I went through all this stuff way back when those archives were opened back in the 90's. I'm sorry if the details are a bit foggy now but this was a hot issue at the time. My brain goes on vacation sometimes.
https://www.nsa.gov/public_info/declass/venona/
Then there's this:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Venona-Secrets-Definitive-Espionage/dp/1621572951
The book is "The Venona Secrets: The Definitive Exposé of Soviet Espionage in America"
Essentially it proves the state department was overrun by Soviet agents. There are other books on the subject including a definitive study by two authors that I'm having trouble remembering right now. I know that Ann Coulter wrote a book, "Treason", based on the work of those two authors. You see more noise being generated about the issue now because a sacred cow of the left has been gored and they don't like it. So naturally they go for their primary weapon - personal attacks.
It may be true that Coulter was over the top in her book - that's what she does. But she based her book on another book that wasn't at all sensational and I'm sorry but I can't remember the name or who wrote it. It will come to me soon.
I know McCarthy was over the top and probably hurt his own cause because of it but he was scared by what he saw. He didn't react well but his basic premise - that the state department was infested with Soviet spies - is now a proven fact.
Again he had nothing to do with the house unAmerican committee and their excesses. He wasn't even in the house. But he was unfairly targeted by the media. They destroyed him because they were also influenced by the Soviets.
There are other sources of info on this subject including the Soviet archives. I went through all this stuff way back when those archives were opened back in the 90's. I'm sorry if the details are a bit foggy now but this was a hot issue at the time. My brain goes on vacation sometimes.
Ash
Member
In the 1950's there was something to fear. Over the last 30 years, Communist civil wars erupted in Spain, Finland, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, China, Yugoslavia, Poland, Bulgaria, Romania, Greece, and Albania. Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania were absorbed into the Soviet Union. The Soviets had the largest army in the world and had just gotten The Bomb and had installed a communist leader in North Korea and were allied with the Chinese. Asia and Europe were under their sphere of influence covering more land than was ever occupied by the Axis Powers. In roads were being made in Africa and South America. Cuba would become communist and Egypt would align itself with the Soviets in this era.
Communists were more than simple political parties, they were insurrectionists which had caused vast deaths across many continents (not even counting the deaths by Stalin). Finland and Spain were particularly bloody, and many had seen what communist rebels were capable of. Fear? Yes. Ignorance? Indeed, it was the exact opposite. Communist powers, some with nuclear weapons spreading across every continent except Australia and Antarctica.
Imagine how things might be today if ISIS controlled most of Asia, half of Europe, and were expanding in Central America and Africa...oh, and they had nuclear weapons.
A better example in this forum though is Katrina and New Orleans. There, no rights existed. You did not even have the right to stay in your home much less the right to bear arms.
Communists were more than simple political parties, they were insurrectionists which had caused vast deaths across many continents (not even counting the deaths by Stalin). Finland and Spain were particularly bloody, and many had seen what communist rebels were capable of. Fear? Yes. Ignorance? Indeed, it was the exact opposite. Communist powers, some with nuclear weapons spreading across every continent except Australia and Antarctica.
Imagine how things might be today if ISIS controlled most of Asia, half of Europe, and were expanding in Central America and Africa...oh, and they had nuclear weapons.
A better example in this forum though is Katrina and New Orleans. There, no rights existed. You did not even have the right to stay in your home much less the right to bear arms.
Well said Ash. Let's not forget the deaths caused by Stalin's buddy Mao. Mao is estimated to have caused the deaths of more than any human that ever lived. 65 million by some accounts died in China because of his policies and his actions. The Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution both caused incredible numbers of deaths. And we had hippie kids selling copies of Mao's "Little Red Book" in the streets of America. Communism was a real threat to us.
Again McCarthy was scared by what he saw in the intelligence reports about Soviet infiltration of the state department and I can see why he felt that way.
Again McCarthy was scared by what he saw in the intelligence reports about Soviet infiltration of the state department and I can see why he felt that way.
DeepSouth
Random Guy
I've been thinking on this a bit and I fully believe in this day and age if you do not comply with a LEO you will likely be arrested, or in far to many cases, shot.
If they ask I'll tell them "no warrant = no entry" but more and more often they don't ask ESPECIALLY "swat" teams. They are generally "no knock" law enforcement.
Their have been many, many cases of swat teams storming into people's houses and they (scared homeowners) panic and end up dead, just to find out the swat team has the wrong address, appt number, ect, ect.
If they ask I'll tell them "no warrant = no entry" but more and more often they don't ask ESPECIALLY "swat" teams. They are generally "no knock" law enforcement.
Their have been many, many cases of swat teams storming into people's houses and they (scared homeowners) panic and end up dead, just to find out the swat team has the wrong address, appt number, ect, ect.
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