Recommendations: 158 grain carry load for Charter Arms Undercover Lite (.38 +P)

[Macchina]

On an odd turn of fate, I'm going to be trading into a Charter Arms Undercover Lite (aluminum frame) rated for .38 Special +P. I am trading things I have no use for, so it's basically free to me. It's a couple months old and almost brand new.

I load almost exclusively 158g lead and JHP for my 357/38 with the exception of 148g HBWC. I'm thinking I want to use an Xtreme Bullets plated 158g hollowpoint or a 158g XTP. I have W231 and Power Pistol. I'm beginning to wonder if I'm missing out on something by not trying out a pound of Unique.

What do you think? Standard pressure for the Charter or +P? Can you push the pressure on these new Charters or do they still get beat up quickly from heavy loads?

Would the "standard Unique" load of 5g be to much for the Charter?

 

[Macchina]

A note on the XTP: far too often I hear the XTP is just a hunting bullet and doesn't expand well. Although it doesn't turn inside-out like some deep-cavity hollowpoint, it tends to blend expansion and penetration very well.

Check out this Standard Pressure .38 Special loading shoot from a snub (Probably slower than 800 FPS): http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=W5pWEU8qX7g

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Most +P factory ammo and load data is hardly standard pressure let alone +P pressures. If the revolver is rated for +P ammo I would have no problem shooting +P ammo in it. I use HS-6 for my 158gr P+ loads but Power Pistol should work just fine. (if you can get past the flash) From a 2" barrel my load generates a AV of 889 fps with a 158gr LSWC/HP bullet.

 

[gamestalker]

Just from a personal stand point, I wouldn't want to be putting true +p reloads through an aluminum frame wheel gun. I highly doubt anything bad will happen if on a now and then basis, after all it is rated +p. But 100 or 150 rounds a week, it may not take that type of diet without getting beat up.

As for a decent load, HS6 like Archangel mentioned has worked well for me. I also get some impressive results with Longshot, flashy, but it gets them out there pretty good. Power Pistol would do well also.

OTOH, I've heard some positive things about the "new" CA offerings. Give it a try, it isn't going to fall apart in your hands, it just might start to work loose with continued "true" +p range use. In other words, it's not a range gun.

GS

 

[Rico567]

OP says he shoots HBWCs. Reverse seat those, load to a moderate level (I favor Universal, but there are lots of good powder choices for .38 Spl.). Great snubby load, should work well in your Charter.

 

[Steve C]

If you want a defense load you can not get enough velocity out of a .38 spl to get expansion out of a 158 gr jacked HP bullet. Rounds that ar 900 fps + out of a 4" revolver will be around 750 fps out of a snub nose.

You need to load a 158gr soft lead HP bullet if you want any expansion out of 158gr bullet. Both Speer and Hornady produce a 158gr swaged LSWCHP bullet that if you load to +P pressure will get expansion from a snub nose. I use a load of 4.7 grs of W231 with these bullets for a +P load.

 

[Macchina]

If you want a defense load you can not get enough velocity out of a .38 spl to get expansion out of a 158 gr jacked HP bullet. Rounds that ar 900 fps + out of a 4" revolver will be around 750 fps out of a snub nose.

You need to load a 158gr soft lead HP bullet if you want any expansion out of 158gr bullet. Both Speer and Hornady produce a 158gr swaged LSWCHP bullet that if you load to +P pressure will get expansion from a snub nose. I use a load of 4.7 grs of W231 with these bullets for a +P load.

Did you not watch the video I posted above about the XTP from a snub barrel standard pressure 38 Special load? It expanded AND penetrated plenty!

 

[HexHead]

A note on the XTP: far too often I hear the XTP is just a hunting bullet and doesn't expand well.

That's nonsense. The XTP is Hornady's standard SD bullet, other than in their Critical Defense line. It's used in their Custom and TAP loads. It's also an extremely accurate bullet.

 

[jim8115]

For what it is worth
158 swaged lead hollow point ( hornady or zero )
5.6 grains Power Pistol @ 1.460

6" ruger GP100 1005 FPS
4" model 67 920 FPS
2 1/2 " M 686 877 FPS
Smith Airwieght 1 7/8" 825 FPS

JIM

 

[35 Whelen]

My wife's Valentines gift two years ago was a CA Pink Lady, same song, different verse as yours. They ARE +P rated and I've treated hers as such. I've done quite a bit if load development and chronographing for it, primarily with my cast bullets, and here are a few that might interest you:

3.8 grs. Unique-

148 gr. DEWC- 703 fps
152 gr. SWCHP (gas check)- 690 fps
165 gr. SWCHP- 655 fps
168 gr. SWC- 621 fps

4.5 grs. Unique-

148 gr. DEWC- 810 fps
152 gr. SWCHP (gas check)- 784 fps
158 gr. SWC (commercial)- 760 fps
160 gr. SWC- 758 fps
165 gr. SWCHP- 715 fps
168 gr. SWC- 690 fps

5.0 grs. Unique-

148 gr. DEWC- 850 fps
152 gr. SWCHP(gas check)- 860 fps
165 gr. SWC- (gas check)- 791 fps
160 gr. SWC- 775 fps
165 gr. SWCHP- 750 fps-

5.2 grs. Unique-

152 gr. SWCHP(gas check)- 880 fps (This is the load she carries)

5.5 Herco-

152 gr. SWCHP(gas check)- 837 fps

You'll notice velocity variations with similar weight and styles of bullets, this is evidently due to different bearing lengths of the bullets.

5.0 grs. of Unique is not generally considered a +P load; at least not in my manuals, but this can vary from manual to manual and particularly from bullet to bullet. The Lyman 3rd Edition cast bullet manual lists 5.4 grs. of Unique as a +P load with two of their 158 gr. bullets.

If you've never fired a 12 oz. .38 Special, I bet you'll be surprised as recoil is all there, especially with the heavier bullets. The significant recoil/muzzle flip had my wife and I struggling as points of impact were VERY high even at relatively close range. We finally figured out that squeezing the ring finger and pinky, but especially the pinky, on the grip made a huge difference in controlling muzzle flip and points of impact.

Were I not a bullet caster, I'd probably load Hornady's 158 gr. SWCHP as they appear to me to be quite soft.

35W

 

[gamestalker]

The 38 spcl. and the XTP will perform very well regarding penetration and expansion in my experience when loaded with the right powder. I've been loading a +p 158 gr. JHP load with Longshot and am getting over 1000 fps from a 2-1/2" snub for quite some time with excellent results. When I load XTP's or Gold Dot's, they expand well, and penetration exceeds 16" of tightly rolled up wet denim.

Hodgdon under rates this load I feel. I have worked Longshot up quite significantly with results taking me well into the 1050's fps, and with no indication of excessive pressures.

GS

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Just to add to my first post, while I use HS-6 for 158gr LSWC/HP bullets in a FBI Replica load when loading JHP bullets I have found Longshot a better choice. (as much as that pains me to say)

Way back when I tested a Remington 158gr JHP bullet over 5.6gr Longshot in a .38 Special +P case the AV from a 4" M686 was 922.8 fps. (CCI-500 primer) Note, Hodgdon lists a max charge of only 5.5gr Longshot under a 158gr Hornady XTP/HP bullet but the pressures are only 17,000 PSI. That pressure is the limit for standard .38 Special ammo so I'm not sure why Hodgdon stopped there.

 

[gamestalker]

I second that Arch, I have worked up well above Hodgdon's 5.5 gr. with Longshot and didn't experience any issues what so ever. It seems I remember Hodgdon, or maybe it was another publisher that had a bit higher charge than that 5.5 grs.?

GS