Red Dot on Glock 17 - need selection help

[socalbeachbum]

I want to mount a red dot on a G17 and having trouble finding enough info to make a decision which way to go. I think I'd like to have the option of going to co-witness iron sights. It seems Glock Store shows only a few sights they offer for this:
Trijicon RMR, Vortex Viper, Shield RMS

I'm guessing it is a matter of having a low profile to the sight and have it mounted in the OEM recess of have the recess machined? My other choice could be to get a spare slide, have one slide with iron, one with dot. Seems better to have both on one slide.

Are there any other dots that can work with co-witness iron sights? Also, the MOS Glock offerings seem to require an adapter plate, thereby raising the sight, is this correct?

 

[tarosean]

Like my backup sights?? unless its a competition gun. you really don't need them IMO.. Any SD situation/distance the window will serve all the sight you need if it were to fail.




There are only two "gold standard" RDS's Trijicon and Delta Point. even then both will likely last approx 5k rounds.

I have the MOS as seen above. If I had to do it over again I would just get the slide milled to lower the RDS.


ETA there is supposed to be some new RDS tech introduced at shot show this year.. Maybe hold off to see what drops?

 

[socalbeachbum]

thanks. I was wondering if the window itself was sufficient if the electrics failed, dead battery, etc.

 

[DukeConnor]

Most people go with supressor height sights to get a co witness. as stated, thr mos system trnds to mount the red dot a little high.

 

[1KPerDay]

There are only two "gold standard" RDS's Trijicon and Delta Point. even then both will likely last approx 5k rounds.

On what are you basing this statement?
My type 1 RMR is currently over 12K rounds. I know a couple people who have 40K+ on theirs.

OP might want to watch this also.

 

[js8588]

The new RMR sized Holosun would (will) be my choice.

 

[rpenmanparker]

Please don’t overdo this thing. $225 is more than enough to spend on a mini-red dot. The Burris and Vortex are very durable. They just plain work. I don’t care about co-witnessing but do watcha gotta do. I am perfectly happy with dovetail attached mounting plates. Ade makes one for Glock that accepts most of the popular red dots.

 

[tarosean]

On what are you basing this statement?

Chuck Pressburg of Presscheck
Steve Fisher of Sentiel

I'm right under 5k for mine, buttt I would assume it's a good average/mean count. Esp. When I've seen so many fail in USPSA

 

[socalbeachbum]

I'm inclined to go with what works as long as the adjustment holds when sighting in. Burris, Vortex, SIG, they all look similar, and I'm a very light duty go to the indoor range once a week kind of application. My eyes are old, so I'd be better off wearing prescription glasses and a dot than iron with no correction.

 

[1KPerDay]

Chuck Pressburg of Presscheck
Steve Fisher of Sentiel

I'm right under 5k for mine, buttt I would assume it's a good average/mean count. Esp. When I've seen so many fail in USPSA

FAIL? Or have batteries die?

 

[Lennyjoe]

I have a Burris Fastfire on my FNX45 Tactical and am still getting used to it.

 

[Jim Watson]

Two friends have Burris.
One has gone red dot all the time, all uses, no cow sight.
The other is just dabbling and draws to the cow, aims with the dot.

Mount as low as possible.

 

[tarosean]

FAIL?

as in Dead.. Battery contact is the biggest issue with slide RDS

 

[thomas15]

I want to mount a red dot on a G17 and having trouble finding enough info to make a decision which way to go. I think I'd like to have the option of going to co-witness iron sights.

I had been mulling this same exact thing for a while now. I have just put a new G34 MOA into the collection, in stock condition and have a G17 with a drop in trigger, aftermarket steel guide rod and springs and iron sights. The conventional wisdom would be to put an optic on the new optic ready G34 but I want to have a production gun and a carry optic gun and will probably shoot carry optic much more than production. So after literally weeks of internal struggle I finally decided the G17 would become my CO gun.

Well, as you probably know there are two ways to attach a dot to a slide. Mill it out or get a dovetail mount. Obviously the dovetail doesn't allow the co-witness option. Milling it out will limit the options for the dot because different sights have different mounting provisions.

I have a Burris FF3 already so I decided that sight and the EGW dovetail mount. It's installed but not tested out yet, hopefully this weekend. Everything from a visual perspective looks like a bad ass carry optics gun. I know there are other dovetail mounts but I can tell you even with a sight pusher tool it was a project getting the dovetail mount installed. I didn't pad the pusher enough and it put scratches on the slide. First time using this tool. Now I know, lesson learned. Would not try to use a drift pin to install one. I have read a lot about using dovetail mounts some say they can get lose. I doubt this mount will get lose I actually dread the possibility of ever removing it. Tight is the operative word here.

I'm not in any way trying to get you to buy a dovetail mount from EGW or a Burris FF3. All I'm doing is letting you know that I spent a few weeks debating myself over the same question you have. I will offer this I agree with those negative on the co-witness thing I personally think it's silly. I had considered getting an aftermarket G17 slide and having that milled. I couldn't find one for my particular G17 at a price I was willing to pay. Milling of course is permanent. Good luck with your decision.

 

[1KPerDay]

as in Dead.. Battery contact is the biggest issue with slide RDS

Not to be argumentative, but how could you tell it was a contact issue? Did you wait around for them to break the loctite, unmount the optic, change the battery, remount, and then determine the contacts were bad? Or did you follow up with them after the match? If you did, do you happen to know if they were type 1 or type 2?

The type 1s often have to be shimmed (I shimmed mine) but the type 2s supposedly have much better contact and redundancy.

 

[rpenmanparker]

I had been mulling this same exact thing for a while now. I have just put a new G34 MOA into the collection, in stock condition and have a G17 with a drop in trigger, aftermarket steel guide rod and springs and iron sights. The conventional wisdom would be to put an optic on the new optic ready G34 but I want to have a production gun and a carry optic gun and will probably shoot carry optic much more than production. So after literally weeks of internal struggle I finally decided the G17 would become my CO gun.

Well, as you probably know there are two ways to attach a dot to a slide. Mill it out or get a dovetail mount. Obviously the dovetail doesn't allow the co-witness option. Milling it out will limit the options for the dot because different sights have different mounting provisions.

I have a Burris FF3 already so I decided that sight and the EGW dovetail mount. It's installed but not tested out yet, hopefully this weekend. Everything from a visual perspective looks like a bad ass carry optics gun. I know there are other dovetail mounts but I can tell you even with a sight pusher tool it was a project getting the dovetail mount installed. I didn't pad the pusher enough and it put scratches on the slide. First time using this tool. Now I know, lesson learned. Would not try to use a drift pin to install one. I have read a lot about using dovetail mounts some say they can get lose. I doubt this mount will get lose I actually dread the possibility of ever removing it. Tight is the operative word here.

I'm not in any way trying to get you to buy a dovetail mount from EGW or a Burris FF3. All I'm doing is letting you know that I spent a few weeks debating myself over the same question you have. I will offer this I agree with those negative on the co-witness thing I personally think it's silly. I had considered getting an aftermarket G17 slide and having that milled. I couldn't find one for my particular G17 at a price I was willing to pay. Milling of course is permanent. Good luck with your decision.

There is a lot of variation in dovetail cuts and in the dovetail inserts that are part of or come with the mounting plates. Sometimes they are tight, sometimes not so much. Some models of the dovetail inserts have two threaded holes through them. One example is the Burris brand plate for the adjustable Novak sight dovetail like you get on some better 1911s. On that kind I have found that two short set screws down in the bottom of the two holes can be used to tighten the insert. Then the fastening screws for the plate and optic go into the same holes above the set screws. It can take some jiggering to keep the upper screws from bottoming on the lower ones, some adjustment of the screw lengths, but when you get it right, it is a very secure mounting method. If the insert is really loose, you will see the set screws raise it up in the dovetail cut until it presses tightly on the walls. That insert isn't going anywhere after that. Always use blue Loctite on all the screws and try for a torque of 12-15 inXlb. Otherwise without the torque and Loctite the vibration will shake the sight loose in just a few shots. Just be careful not to strip those little screw heads. Whenever possible use Torx screws. You will thank me down the road.

 

[rpenmanparker]

I go to EGW for exotic mounting plates, but they are pricey. Ade Advanced Optics makes a wide variety of models for different pistols and sells them through some of the optics makers, supplier, Amazon, etc. They are much more reasonably priced. Burris also makes some models of the mounting plates for a little bit more money. If worse come to worst, and you can't find a dovetail insert that fits, you can buy one that is too large and have a gunsmith (or do it yourself) cut it down to make a nice, tight fit. That is better than buggering up the dovetail cut on the pistol to match the available insert. Ask me how I know! You also have to be careful that the mounting plate is shaped in a way that will fit securely on top of the slide and look nice. Buying a mounting plate intended for the specific model gun is the best way to go, but sometimes you just have to be a little more creative.

 

[tarosean]

The type 1s often have to be shimmed (I shimmed mine) but the type 2s supposedly have much better contact and redundancy.

those are known issues.. esp on the competition forums. Benos, etc.

From what Ive seen Type 2's fail after the 1st or second shot or work till thousands and thousands of rounds..

(The emitter pops out.. Also a known issue with Type 2's.)


Ive got both Leu and Trijic.. Nothing against anyones choice we are in the infancy of the mini technology vs. slides

As I said earlier there is supposed to be some new tech at this years Shot Show that leaves all prior in the dust.. (Course that very well could be advertising)

 

[Trey Veston]

Holosun HS507C. Solar back up and supposedly 50,000 hour battery life. $299 and run out of stock all the time.

 

[rpenmanparker]

Said this before. Will say it again. Nearly infinite battery life and/or solar backup are certainly valuable. But there is a very cost effective alternative. Simply replace the battery on a specific schedule within it’s expected lifetime (like a smoke detector battery) to avoid any nasty surprises. For a buck apiece or so in bulk it is cheap enough to do. You can leave the unit on all the time (assuming no auto shutoff) and still have full reliability.

 

[thomas15]

I replace the battery in my C-MORE RTS2 about 5 or 6 times a year. The battery in my Burris FF3 is the one that came with the sight and has seen a full year of service, still going strong. I have two C-MORE Slide Glides still on the original batteries with them also. I have an inexpensive Sight Mark, the dot on this is not bright enough for me and the dot itself is too busy and it eats batteries at a fast rate. I prefer a single red dot but that is just me.

When I shoot I turn the dot on once and keep it on the entire time I'm shooting, Many times this is 4 or 5 hours. In any case, with all of my dots I keep plenty of extra batteries in my range bag and at home. I usually buy 10 batteries at a time.

 

[thomas15]

I go to EGW for exotic mounting plates, but they are pricey.

Pricy but quality. And by pricy we are talking about 10 or so dollars? As mentioned I'm not trying to get anyone to buy something mainly because I find the "buy this because I have it" mantra to be quite annoying. I doubt that anyone who doesn't know me really cares what I own/use anyway.

EGW is local to me and they sponsor many big matches in the area. Because they are supportive of the shooting sports I support them. Amazon does not support the shooting sports as far as I know. The fact that they (EGW) are high quality is a bonus. EGW actually advertises on the local (Allentown PA) talk radio station.

The taper on the width dimension of the dovetail mount is quite obvious when viewed unmounted. As mentioned I'm a rookie using a sight pusher and I made mistakes. If I want to remove the mount it's only coming out in one direction, opposite of the way it went in. I've convinced myself that the little ding I put on the mount where the pusher blade made contact with the mount is a good thing, it is a reminder that if I want to remove the sight I will have to push from the other side. Have a good day.

 

[98bluewave]

error

 

[rpenmanparker]

Pricy but quality. And by pricy we are talking about 10 or so dollars? As mentioned I'm not trying to get anyone to buy something mainly because I find the "buy this because I have it" mantra to be quite annoying. I doubt that anyone who doesn't know me really cares what I own/use anyway.

EGW is local to me and they sponsor many big matches in the area. Because they are supportive of the shooting sports I support them. Amazon does not support the shooting sports as far as I know. The fact that they (EGW) are high quality is a bonus. EGW actually advertises on the local (Allentown PA) talk radio station.

The taper on the width dimension of the dovetail mount is quite obvious when viewed unmounted. As mentioned I'm a rookie using a sight pusher and I made mistakes. If I want to remove the mount it's only coming out in one direction, opposite of the way it went in. I've convinced myself that the little ding I put on the mount where the pusher blade made contact with the mount is a good thing, it is a reminder that if I want to remove the sight I will have to push from the other side. Have a good day.

No, the price you are quoting isn't right. For the Glock mount that accepts Venom, FF3, etc. the EGW plate is 3X the Ade, $45 (Amazon)-$50 (direct from EGW) vs. $17 for Ade (Amazon). And Prime shipping is free on Amazon. So Ade is a much better buy. Quality is also excellent.

And yes, many rear sights only come out to the right. It is best to get in the habit of always pushing in that direction. I don't know of any (correct me if I am wrong) that come out to the left.

 

[98bluewave]

I'm guessing it is a matter of having a low profile to the sight and have it mounted in the OEM recess of have the recess machined? My other choice could be to get a spare slide, have one slide with iron, one with dot. Seems better to have both on one slide.

Are there any other dots that can work with co-witness iron sights? Also, the MOS Glock offerings seem to require an adapter plate, thereby raising the sight, is this correct?[/QUOTE]

Yes, the MOS pistols require an adapter plate.

I attempted to download a picture of my Glock 19 with a Vortex Venom but gave up. I wanted the red dot to mount as low as possible on the slide, and to have co-witness sights. Therefore I had the slide milled by JagaerWerks. They did a great job. JagerWerks will supply red dots, sights, etc. and mount them if you prefer.

The Venom cost about $ 230 and is a great sight. It comes with a mount that I can use to mount it on my Buck Mark pistols with rails. It's easy to switch the Venom between pistols.