Registration
- Thread starter irishpunk
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How does one enforce the ban on marijuana? If an item is banned the possession of that item is illegal. It is really very simple.
[Quote ]
Do you work for poverty law center ? When did you move to the South from NYC ? [/quote]
I do not. I moved from Michigan 15 years ago. Never been to NYC but upstate NY is nice.
Sam Cade
Member
Not this liberal.
Jeeze. :banghead:
Statist.
Statist is the word you want ,I think.
Personally, my guns are primarily for killing people who threaten life or liberty with a very tertiary role of killing tasty or annoying critters.
I think (and I am positive that most of my socially liberal, politically active friends concur) that anyone who supports gun control supports the Police State, the eternal foe of freedom.
Sam Cade
Member
Indeed. It is very simple.
All laws are enforced with either Violence or the threat of Violence.
Now, does anyone want to have a conversation about Gewaltmonopol des Staates and how the legitimacy of that monopoly erodes when leveraged against the citizenry?
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Ed Ames
Member
Which says nothing about how you enforce such a ban.
A great example is marijuana. It is illegal per federal law (with a few exceptions) in the US, but enforcement of that ban has proved impossible. Marijuana is easily available throughout the United States and can be purchased from fixed-address retailers (with various degrees of restriction) in several states. If the federal government cannot enforce a ban on possession of a plant, how can you take seriously their ability to enforce a ban on anything?
The main things the US government has ever accomplished with any attempt to ban possession of anything is to make people willing to circumvent that ban rich, and destroy lives.
A registry just makes that easier, with no measurable benefit. It isn't required, but it helps (especially on the destroying lives side, but also making black marketers rich by helping eliminate potential competition).
Registration is not required for a ban. However, if registration is put in place, confiscation of a subsequently-banned item becomes much easier, at least in terms of confiscating from those who registered their items.
On your side but I don't think this is a very good comparison. Stuff is called weed for a reason. While there's countless threads on zip guns and 80% lowers on this site gotta admit they're harder to make than throwing some seed in the ground and coming back later.
irishpunk
Member
Bingo!
barnbwt
member
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"Note I am not advocating banning anything. I am simply pointing out that a registry is not required for a ban."
Yeah, I don't know how people got the idea you were advocating for them. I understand you simply don't see them as a threat. I do, since they have been misused in recent history and earlier, have dubious effectiveness, and serve no public purpose (vehicle registration helps pay for roadwork and licenses --which aren't applicable to a constitutional human right like guns). And given the current/preceding administration tactics we've recently been made aware of, we would all do well to avoid assembling any more big databases of personal information.
Like I said; no good comes from telling the State how many resources are in your possession. They will eventually arrive to take them by force.
TCB
Yeah, I don't know how people got the idea you were advocating for them. I understand you simply don't see them as a threat. I do, since they have been misused in recent history and earlier, have dubious effectiveness, and serve no public purpose (vehicle registration helps pay for roadwork and licenses --which aren't applicable to a constitutional human right like guns). And given the current/preceding administration tactics we've recently been made aware of, we would all do well to avoid assembling any more big databases of personal information.
Like I said; no good comes from telling the State how many resources are in your possession. They will eventually arrive to take them by force.
TCB
Sam Cade
Member
This is straight out of the antis playbook. It is important to them because it makes confiscation so much easier.
So why did they push as hard as they did, risking serious political fallout, if it isn't a key step towards confiscation? The answer is it is a critical step towards confiscation. Always has been, always will be.
You're simply being naive if you don't believe this. Go study history and you will find the answer.
newfalguy101
Member
NOPE not of the guns nor of the shooters!!!
barnbwt
member
- Joined
- Aug 14, 2011
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- 7,340
"If the federal government cannot enforce a ban on possession of a plant, how can you take seriously their ability to enforce a ban on anything?"
It really doesn't matter how effective they are at large, if it gives them carte blanche to kick down your door with flashbangs and shoot you/your dog if you ever get on their radar, now does it? There's a lot to be said for maintaining legitimacy in a political movement, which in the case of guns, ends up with all the good guys' guns being registered and inevitably seized.
Only law-abiding citizens obey gun laws; do we really want to be criminals of conscience? And if so, what's to stop us from progressing further down that road, to NFA weapons and illegal (but self-righteous) trafficking? You see why it's important to maintain legality? So no; disobeying registration is not a legitimate option even if it is physically possible, and likely to be used by many folks. Same reason we can't just go shootin' up city hall when we disagree with a new law.
TCB
It really doesn't matter how effective they are at large, if it gives them carte blanche to kick down your door with flashbangs and shoot you/your dog if you ever get on their radar, now does it? There's a lot to be said for maintaining legitimacy in a political movement, which in the case of guns, ends up with all the good guys' guns being registered and inevitably seized.
Only law-abiding citizens obey gun laws; do we really want to be criminals of conscience? And if so, what's to stop us from progressing further down that road, to NFA weapons and illegal (but self-righteous) trafficking? You see why it's important to maintain legality? So no; disobeying registration is not a legitimate option even if it is physically possible, and likely to be used by many folks. Same reason we can't just go shootin' up city hall when we disagree with a new law.
TCB
Ed Ames
Member
You put a block of aluminum in the mill and start the program. You may need to re-clamp it or something but once the programming is done it isn't a huge amount harder than running a dishwasher.
Are we going to put limits on how much aluminum people can buy at one time, like they have on pseudoephedrine? Because short of that an AR receiver is easy, and you could make 100 of them a week in your garage if you invested in a CNC mill. A barrel is harder but not impossible.
Glockula
Member
I don't support any kind of fire arms registration. Period.
KarenTOC
Member
That's it? Is Bingo the formerly bagged cat?
SilentStalker
Member
The bad thing is discussing this kind of crap on the Internet does nothing more than give them plays for the playbook, sadly. I am not for any kind of registration whatsoever. However, the sad reality is, most of you have already given up information that could, to some extent, be used in confiscation. It's pretty obvious here that everyone on this board is 99.9% likely to own a firearm of some sort. So, there is the start of a list. And, if you think your made up username protects you lol, think again. So lets take this a step further, now they have your username on a pro gun website which they could use to contact said owners of site to give them further info. Ok, so now they have your full name and info you used when you registered here. Now they can go and cross reference that stuff with insurance agencies and determine lots of things. Some say your insurance company doesn't require serial numbers! It doesn't matter they still require a type of arm and a value. So, you can see how there is already quite a bit of information out there waiting for them to get. And this is just one possibility if many I could give. Your only hope is to live in a state that does not require any kind of private sales records, not going through FFL. But even then if you chose not to register and say you sold it to someone else you would have a firearm that would be useless because if you were ever caught with it you would go straight to jail. You see they, in large part already have all the info they need. It's out there it just depends on how bad they want it. Now the question is, what are you really going to do about it? You either register and enjoy your freedom for however long you have it or you don't have your freedom. So, I ask again what real choices do you have? The truth is we are lucky we have gotten to enjoy our freedoms this long and that really hurts to say that as every member in my family that could serve has served and fought for those freedoms! Instead of wasting time talking about crap like this on the Internet it's time to plan a real offensive! You better start fighting the legal way as much as you can.
BullfrogKen
Moderator Emeritus
Bingo sounds like a dog's name to me.
Well who cares what you want and what you don't want. That's the problem when you give up yet a little more of your civil liberties to your rulers. The people you want me to give up and submit myself to don't care if you don't want to ban guns. It's on their agenda.
And if it's not on the agenda of the politician who passed it today, it'll be on the agenda of the one who replaces him a decade or two from now. And this new guy doesn't care if the guy he beat in an election pinky-swore a promise never to use that list to take away anything.
They might be separate issues in your mind, but to a statist registration is a means to and end, not the end goal itself.
JSH1 said:
Well who cares what you want and what you don't want. That's the problem when you give up yet a little more of your civil liberties to your rulers. The people you want me to give up and submit myself to don't care if you don't want to ban guns. It's on their agenda.
And if it's not on the agenda of the politician who passed it today, it'll be on the agenda of the one who replaces him a decade or two from now. And this new guy doesn't care if the guy he beat in an election pinky-swore a promise never to use that list to take away anything.
They might be separate issues in your mind, but to a statist registration is a means to and end, not the end goal itself.
irishpunk
Member
Ok, it looks as though you are all against registration,righty so,and the point that I would like to make may even seem silly. But I still feel as though it's important to note none the less.
That point being any kind of warranty cards,for anything firearms related,should never be filled out and sent in. Think about it for a moment...you've just purchased a brandy new 1911,now you're sitting at you work bench in your 'man cave' drooling over it.
The next thing you know,you're going through the case and come across the warranty card. This card may seem harmless,but it implores you to fill it out and send it in,or to do it online. Doing so will be a mistake. Why?
Because by doing so,you've just registered your firearm. This also applies to other firearm related products as well...I.E. scopes,lights,grips,etc,etc,etc.
Again,I don't mean to offend,but I'm fairly confident based on all of your responses that you all already get it. But perhaps there are some that do not. And I would like to implore them back...DO NOT DO THIS!
I did not serve my country for what it has become,in fact,it's no longer my country.
God Bless you all.
That point being any kind of warranty cards,for anything firearms related,should never be filled out and sent in. Think about it for a moment...you've just purchased a brandy new 1911,now you're sitting at you work bench in your 'man cave' drooling over it.
The next thing you know,you're going through the case and come across the warranty card. This card may seem harmless,but it implores you to fill it out and send it in,or to do it online. Doing so will be a mistake. Why?
Because by doing so,you've just registered your firearm. This also applies to other firearm related products as well...I.E. scopes,lights,grips,etc,etc,etc.
Again,I don't mean to offend,but I'm fairly confident based on all of your responses that you all already get it. But perhaps there are some that do not. And I would like to implore them back...DO NOT DO THIS!
I did not serve my country for what it has become,in fact,it's no longer my country.
God Bless you all.
Sam Cade
Member
BullfrogKen
Moderator Emeritus
It has. Excellent closing [STRIKE]post[/STRIKE] image.
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