Nebraska Mall shooting question...

Status
Not open for further replies.

JoseM

Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2006
Messages
234
Location
Fuquay Varina, NC
I know there's another thread but I have one particular question and that's it. Was this mall a "no gun zone"? Was a sign posted? I've read through the other thread and saw both answers. So please only answer if you know for sure (i.e. you've been there and seen the signs or you have some other factual basis).

Once this is answered...please don't post any additional because everything else should be in that other thread! Thank you.
 
As far as what I have heard , yes, it was a no-gun zone. The malls around me are also no-gun zones.:mad:
 
According to the linked source, Westroads Mall is posted (at least as of March 2007).
http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_page=1208&u_sid=2355124

Excerpt:
"In fact, although some chains such as Bag 'N Save have posted signs and shopping malls such as Westroads Mall have added "no weapons" clauses to their posted codes of conduct, many small businesses haven't seen the need. And at least one that did later reconsidered."
 
I think the better question is, “Do those signs carry any weight of law in [strike]Utah[/strike] Nebraska?”

They can post the malls all they want here in Washington and it only means I cannot carry openly. Do signs banning guns carry any weight in Utah?

EDIT, thanks!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Mainsail, do you mean in Nebraska?

Unfortunately, it's part of the CCW license law that areas posted conspicuously by their owners are off-limits (that is, the ultimate penalty is more than being asked to leave or charged with trespassing). So as I understand it, in Nebraska, a conspicuous "no guns" sign is legally binding.
 
Mainsail, do you mean in Nebraska?

Unfortunately, it's part of the CCW license law that areas posted conspicuously by their owners are off-limits (that is, the ultimate penalty is more than being asked to leave or charged with trespassing). So as I understand it, in Nebraska, a conspicuous "no guns" sign is legally binding.

If you ignore the signs, you can lose your CHP.
 
I am sure a no weapons sign would have stopped him
Yeah - just like the law that says a convicted felon can't possess a firearm. And the law that prohibits the discharging of a weapon within the city limits. Oh, and the law that says it's illegal to murder people.

See, there's the problem... only three laws. If there were a couple more, maybe this wouldn't have happened.

The cold hard truth is - there are people who will do evil. No amount of laws will stop them. We need to stop trying to legislate evil away, and allow the good people to defend themselves against that evil.
 
Tom488 said:
The cold hard truth is - there are people who will do evil. No amount of laws will stop them. We need to stop trying to legislate evil away, and allow the good people to defend themselves against that evil.

Brilliant
 
Would have stopped a CCW holder from being there with a gun to stop him.

Bingo...of course that's what I was getting to. I was on local discussion boards and didn't want to state something factual incorrect (I know that stating facts isn't something the anti's adhere too...but I like doing it). Thank you.
 
this mall a "no gun zone"? Was a sign posted? I've read through the other thread and saw both answers.

YES IT WAS A POSTED NO WEAPON ZONE.

In fact, although some chains such as Bag 'N Save have posted signs and shopping malls such as Westroads Mall have added "no weapons" clauses to their posted codes of conduct, many small businesses haven't seen the need.

http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_pag...&u_sid=2355124

That's a link I grabbed up before the brewhaha glogged up google. It's from several months ago.
 
Tom488, i need to sig this elsewhere:

"The cold hard truth is - there are people who will do evil. No amount of laws will stop them. We need to stop trying to legislate evil away, and allow the good people to defend themselves against that evil."
 
Media Coverage of Mall Shooting Fails to Reveal Mall's Gun-Free-Zone Status


By John R. Lott, Jr.


The horrible tragedy at the Westroads Mall in Omaha, Neb. received a lot of attention Wednesday and Thursday. It should have. Eight people were killed, and five were wounded.

A Google news search using the phrase "Omaha Mall Shooting" finds an incredible 2,794 news stories worldwide for the last day. From India and Taiwan to Britain and Austria, there are probably few people in the world who haven’t heard about this tragedy.

But despite the massive news coverage, none of the media coverage, at least by 10 a.m. Thursday, mentioned this central fact: Yet another attack occurred in a gun-free zone.

Surely, with all the reporters who appear at these crime scenes and seemingly interview virtually everyone there, why didn’t one simply mention the signs that ban guns from the premises?

Nebraska allows people to carry permitted concealed handguns, but it allows property owners, such as the Westroads Mall, to post signs banning permit holders from legally carrying guns on their property.

The same was true for the attack at the Trolley Square Mall in Utah in February (a copy of the sign at the mall can be seen here). But again the media coverage ignored this fact. Possibly the ban there was even more noteworthy because the off-duty police officer who stopped the attack fortunately violated the ban by taking his gun in with him when he went shopping.

Yet even then, the officer "was at the opposite end and on a different floor of the convoluted Trolley Square complex when the shooting began. By the time he became aware of the shooting and managed to track down and confront Talovic [the killer], three minutes had elapsed."

There are plenty of cases every year where permit holders stop what would have been multiple victim shootings every year, but they rarely receive any news coverage. Take a case this year in Memphis, where WBIR-TV reported a gunman started "firing a pistol beside a busy city street" and was stopped by two permit holders before anyone was harmed.

When will part of the media coverage on these multiple-victim public shootings be whether guns were banned where the attack occurred? While the media has begun to cover whether teachers can have guns at school or the almost 8,000 college students across the country who protested gun-free zones on their campuses, the media haven’t started checking what are the rules where these attacks occur.

Surely, the news stories carry detailed information on the weapon used (in this case, a rifle) and the number of ammunition clips (apparently, two). But if these aspects of the story are deemed important for understanding what happened, why isn’t it also important that the attack occurred where guns were banned? Isn’t it important to know why all the victims were disarmed?

Few know that Dylan Klebold, one of the two Columbine killers, closely was following Colorado legislation that would have allowed citizens to carry a concealed handgun. Klebold strongly opposed the legislation and openly talked about it.

No wonder, as the bill being debated would have allowed permitted guns to be carried on school property. It is quite a coincidence that he attacked the Columbine High School the very day the legislature was scheduled to vote on the bill.

Despite the lack of news coverage, people are beginning to notice what research has shown for years: Multiple-victim public shootings keep occurring in places where guns already are banned. Forty states have broad right-to-carry laws, but even within these states it is the "gun-free zones," not other public places, where the attacks happen.

People know the list: Virginia Tech saw 32 murdered earlier this year; the Columbine High School shooting left 13 murdered in 1999; Luby's Cafeteria in Killeen, Texas, had 23 who were fatally shot by a deranged man in 1991; and a McDonald's in Southern California had 21 people shot dead by an unemployed security guard in 1984.

All these attacks — indeed, all attacks involving more than a small number of people being killed — happened in gun-free zones.

In recent years, similar attacks have occurred across the world, including in Australia, France, Germany and Britain. Do all these countries lack enough gun-control laws? Hardly. The reverse is more accurate.

The law-abiding, not criminals, are obeying the rules. Disarming the victims simply means that the killers have less to fear. As Wednesday's attack demonstrated yet again, police are important, but they almost always arrive at the crime scene after the crime has occurred.

The longer it takes for someone to arrive on the scene with a gun, the more people who will be harmed by such an attack.

Most people understand that guns deter criminals. If a killer were stalking your family, would you feel safer putting a sign out front announcing, "This Home Is a Gun-Free Zone"? But that is what the Westroads Mall did.

*John Lott is the author of the book, Freedomnomics upon which this piece is based and is a Senior Research Scientist at the University of Maryland.
 
Strat,

See: http://uniweb.legislature.ne.gov/LegalDocs/view.php?page=s2801006000

Class I misdemeanor........ Maximum -- not more than one year imprisonment, or one thousand dollars fine, or both
Minimum -- none

And with 28-1202 available as affirmative defense I'll take my chances (and have). Of course I don't visit places that are posted, so it's kind of a moot point.



Sec. 28-1202 said:
(b) It is an affirmative defense that the defendant was engaged in any lawful business, calling, or employment at the time he or she was carrying any weapon or weapons and the circumstances in which such person was placed at the time were such as to justify a prudent person in carrying the weapon or weapons for the defense of his or her person, property, or family.
 
Lawsuit?

So is it possible to sue the mall which prohibited CCLs but failed to provide adequate security?

Nebraska needs 200K more CCLs...but they won't help in "gun-free" victim disarmament zones.
 
Blackfork,

That is not the answer. The solution is to simply not shop in such locales. Vote with your money.
Frankly I would rather see more people making use of their right to open carry in this state.
 
RISASI - "Frankly I would rather see more people making use of their right to open carry in this state."

Risasi, think of the downside of "open carry" when encountering the situation in Omaha.

If a murderous shooter decides to start shooting and sees you wearing your gun on your hip, guess to whom he's going to address his first couple of bullets.

I'm not against "open carry" if a person wants to do it: just pointing out the downside.

(I carry concealed and so does my wife, although Idaho is also an "open carry" State.)

L.W.
 
Leanwolf,

I recognize the tactical advantages and disadvantages of open vs. concealed carry.

But think of the strategic aspect of commonly carrying open. One of which is the fact that the common populace doesn't have the adverse "OMG, he's got a gun!" reaction. Not only that, common open carry is also a big deterrent to criminal activity. Leanwolf, think of the upside if there had been more than one openly armed individual in Von Maur. Do you think he who shall not be named would have staged his attack there?

I'm not talking one or two guys carrying, I'm talking a significant portion of our population carrying again. It used to be this way in many portions of this state. Including Omaha, even 20 years ago. Honestly I'm fine with both types of carry. And I believe that law abiding citizens should use both methods frequently.
 
Okay, I'm done posting in this thread. If you want shoot me a PM.

Clearly the OP has his answer. Yes there is a sign posted. But if it is the one I'm thinking of I would not call them "prominently posted".

I know a couple of the theaters around here have the signs, frankly you could mistake them for "no smoking" signs. And usually they say something like;



No weapons permitted
 
But if it is the one I'm thinking of I would not call them "prominently posted".
Agreed. Every mall I've seen here in Nebraska has the language in their "Code of Conduct" which is far from conspicuous. Personally, I think Nebraska needs something similar to the Texas 30.06 sign.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top