1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
This brings us to the end of the reliability series. I hope that the information will help somebody turn their problem into a pearl. Most of'em can be with just a little patience. Some require more patience than others, but they're all basically good boys...just misunderstood. Reliability with the 1911 rests on a three-legged stool. Good ammo. A good extractor. Good magazines. Tend to those three things, and the jams will be few and far between. For those rare occasions when one just won't behave, it's time to start tweakin'. Most reliability issues are simple to fix.
The final part is aimed at extraction and ejection. If the empty case can't get out of the gun in a timely fashion, it has the potential to cause a feeding problem. Two solid objects simply can't occupy the same space at the same time. I tried it once with a pickup truck and a Corvette. Didn't work. Ford beat Chevy on that day on that stretch of road.
If the extractor is correctly fitted/tweaked/tuned, getting it out of the chamber isn't an issue. Many of these pistols will function surprisingly well with the extractor missing. Ejection is another animal.
For my own purposes, I don't care whether the brass lands at my feet or in the next county, as long as it gets out of the port and doesn't bean me between the eyes or drop down the back of my shirt. It is nice to have most of my brass fall in the same area, since I consider brass to be right up there with gold and silver. This is range gun criteria, though, and my carry pistols have a more lax requirement in this area. Some folks
want consistent ejection patterns, ...although it's not very easy to get sometimes.
The rule of thumb on selecting the recoil spring that allows the brass to be dropped at 6-10 feet is a rough guideline, and assumes that the extractor is optimized and that all the ammo is pretty close to the same. There are other things that determine the distance and the angle of ejection than the recoil spring alone. The length and shape of the extractor hook is a big factor, as is the shape and height of the ejector face. The wild card in the equation is the cartridge rim, especially for brass that's seen more than 2 or 3 trips through the gun. Variations in rim diameter and thickness have an effect on where the brass goes, as does the length and depth of the extractor groove.
As the rim diameter gets larger, extractor tension increases...and vice versa. As the extractor groove gets shorter, contact with the front of the extractor increases as the case rolls and twists itself free of the hook. The spot that the ejector hits the case has an effect. Rule of thumb is that the lower on the case the ejector hits, the more straight up the case will eject. The higher it strikes, the more straight out. A flat, sharp ejector face will tend to throw the brass forward, while a radius on the right side will tend to roll it off the hook sideways. If the right side has an angle on it, the
case will tend to follow that angle.
Extractor tension plays a big role. More tension means that the ejector will take a sharper crack at it. Less tension will tend to let the case "roll with the punch" and it won't travel as far. A hook that is a little long will hold the case tighter as the case rolls...The hook digs in. A hook that's a little short releases the rim earlier.
One of the most often heard complaints is that the gun is ejecting the brass straight back and the shooter is getting hit in the face or on the head. Actually, the gun doesn't eject the brass straight back. It's ejecting it straight up, and the slide is batting it at you. This is an issue with the brass getting clear of the port before making contact with the slide at the top of the port...from 12 to about 1 O'clock. Timing..Timing...This usually
suggests a short hook or low tension, coupled with an ejector that strikes the rim high. Not enough recoil spring can also be a player. A fresh spring might just slow the slide for a fraction of a second longer and allow the brass to clear the port. Then all you have is a high angle of ejection and the brass landing close to your right foot. More extractor tension and a slightly longer hook will accomplish the same thing, though the arc of
the brass probably won't be as sharp. If you radius the bottom corner of the hook, the release point will get the brass out a little closer to 2 O'clock and solve your problem. The amount of this radius will vary as well. Some need only a little...others require a heavy radius.
Generally speaking, the extractor hook is about at optimum at .032 to .035 inch, measured from the inner wall...where the rim makes contact. I've taken them down as short as .030 to get the pattern that I want, but most will work best somewhere in the range mentioned above. Shorter than .030 and the extraction can get "iffy".
An extended ejector changes the release timing too...sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse. It gets the brass out earlier, but sometimes it throws it right into the path of the slide. The main advantage of the extended ejector is that it better lends itself to tuning and reshaping than the standard ejector. You can file the underside at an angle to make it strike higher, or the top to move the spot lower. You can put a light angle on the side to roll the case straight out...or a compound angle to
roll it up and out, or any variation. Trial and error is the key to finding just the right shape, and no two pistols are alike. You'll kill a few before you get the hang of it.
The standard ejector can also be altered to effect a higher strike...just not as much as the extended variety. You have very little material to play with on these.
In the final analysis, there isn't a set dimension or shape that is a fix-all. Each gun will have to be approached as an individual, and the key to success is to go slow. Make a small change and test fire the gun. In this phase, it would be adviseable to use new ammunition from the same manufacturer and even the same lot number. Everything means something, and a variation of .003 inch in the diameter or thickness of the
rim can make a big difference in the ejection pattern. They will vary within the same brand and lot anyway, but there won't be as much average difference within the same lot as when you use several different brands of ammo for the testing phase.
I've enjoyed doing this, and hope that everybody can benefit from it in some way. Met a lotta nice folks and made contact with some that I've never had contact with before. Of all the forums out here, I have to say that THR is one of the best and the one that I consider to be home base.
Luck to ya, gang!
Tuner
The final part is aimed at extraction and ejection. If the empty case can't get out of the gun in a timely fashion, it has the potential to cause a feeding problem. Two solid objects simply can't occupy the same space at the same time. I tried it once with a pickup truck and a Corvette. Didn't work. Ford beat Chevy on that day on that stretch of road.
If the extractor is correctly fitted/tweaked/tuned, getting it out of the chamber isn't an issue. Many of these pistols will function surprisingly well with the extractor missing. Ejection is another animal.
For my own purposes, I don't care whether the brass lands at my feet or in the next county, as long as it gets out of the port and doesn't bean me between the eyes or drop down the back of my shirt. It is nice to have most of my brass fall in the same area, since I consider brass to be right up there with gold and silver. This is range gun criteria, though, and my carry pistols have a more lax requirement in this area. Some folks
want consistent ejection patterns, ...although it's not very easy to get sometimes.
The rule of thumb on selecting the recoil spring that allows the brass to be dropped at 6-10 feet is a rough guideline, and assumes that the extractor is optimized and that all the ammo is pretty close to the same. There are other things that determine the distance and the angle of ejection than the recoil spring alone. The length and shape of the extractor hook is a big factor, as is the shape and height of the ejector face. The wild card in the equation is the cartridge rim, especially for brass that's seen more than 2 or 3 trips through the gun. Variations in rim diameter and thickness have an effect on where the brass goes, as does the length and depth of the extractor groove.
As the rim diameter gets larger, extractor tension increases...and vice versa. As the extractor groove gets shorter, contact with the front of the extractor increases as the case rolls and twists itself free of the hook. The spot that the ejector hits the case has an effect. Rule of thumb is that the lower on the case the ejector hits, the more straight up the case will eject. The higher it strikes, the more straight out. A flat, sharp ejector face will tend to throw the brass forward, while a radius on the right side will tend to roll it off the hook sideways. If the right side has an angle on it, the
case will tend to follow that angle.
Extractor tension plays a big role. More tension means that the ejector will take a sharper crack at it. Less tension will tend to let the case "roll with the punch" and it won't travel as far. A hook that is a little long will hold the case tighter as the case rolls...The hook digs in. A hook that's a little short releases the rim earlier.
One of the most often heard complaints is that the gun is ejecting the brass straight back and the shooter is getting hit in the face or on the head. Actually, the gun doesn't eject the brass straight back. It's ejecting it straight up, and the slide is batting it at you. This is an issue with the brass getting clear of the port before making contact with the slide at the top of the port...from 12 to about 1 O'clock. Timing..Timing...This usually
suggests a short hook or low tension, coupled with an ejector that strikes the rim high. Not enough recoil spring can also be a player. A fresh spring might just slow the slide for a fraction of a second longer and allow the brass to clear the port. Then all you have is a high angle of ejection and the brass landing close to your right foot. More extractor tension and a slightly longer hook will accomplish the same thing, though the arc of
the brass probably won't be as sharp. If you radius the bottom corner of the hook, the release point will get the brass out a little closer to 2 O'clock and solve your problem. The amount of this radius will vary as well. Some need only a little...others require a heavy radius.
Generally speaking, the extractor hook is about at optimum at .032 to .035 inch, measured from the inner wall...where the rim makes contact. I've taken them down as short as .030 to get the pattern that I want, but most will work best somewhere in the range mentioned above. Shorter than .030 and the extraction can get "iffy".
An extended ejector changes the release timing too...sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse. It gets the brass out earlier, but sometimes it throws it right into the path of the slide. The main advantage of the extended ejector is that it better lends itself to tuning and reshaping than the standard ejector. You can file the underside at an angle to make it strike higher, or the top to move the spot lower. You can put a light angle on the side to roll the case straight out...or a compound angle to
roll it up and out, or any variation. Trial and error is the key to finding just the right shape, and no two pistols are alike. You'll kill a few before you get the hang of it.
The standard ejector can also be altered to effect a higher strike...just not as much as the extended variety. You have very little material to play with on these.
In the final analysis, there isn't a set dimension or shape that is a fix-all. Each gun will have to be approached as an individual, and the key to success is to go slow. Make a small change and test fire the gun. In this phase, it would be adviseable to use new ammunition from the same manufacturer and even the same lot number. Everything means something, and a variation of .003 inch in the diameter or thickness of the
rim can make a big difference in the ejection pattern. They will vary within the same brand and lot anyway, but there won't be as much average difference within the same lot as when you use several different brands of ammo for the testing phase.
I've enjoyed doing this, and hope that everybody can benefit from it in some way. Met a lotta nice folks and made contact with some that I've never had contact with before. Of all the forums out here, I have to say that THR is one of the best and the one that I consider to be home base.
Luck to ya, gang!
Tuner
