Reloaded 9mm Velocity Way Too High

[drband]

Then several shots in the order of 5000-6000 fps. A second string started with 5000-6000 fps again. I stopped wanting to investigate further

I bet that was exciting! The most important thing you are learning is to STOP when things don’t look, feel, or sound right!

I second all the other cautionary posts. You have good equipment, but a powder better suited for an experienced reloader. Save the rest of it and continue with some other less-spikey powder. Always start low with charges and work up, evaluating each powder wt. as you go.

I particularly like W231, but have used AA#2, Promo/Red Dot, and am planning to try out True Blue next.

Come back here often and ask questions. You’ll be glad you did!

 

[booran1]

I believe I have some W231 at home as well. I could take a closer look at the data for that and work up to a load just to get more comfortable. The supplies did come with ~1000 of these bullets so I would like to figure out a load to use them in 9mm

 

[drband]

The bullets are not a problem. W231 would work well.

 

[fxvr5]

booran1, your load data looks fine. You're loading to 1.150, which is way longer than the 125 grain bullets that people are using for an example. Jacketed and plated bullets build pressure differently, according to Guy Neill (a reloading expert who has worked in the industry), and he suggests using data specifically for plated or jacketed, but I suspect your load is probably okay. But it wouldn't hurt to start a bit lower, and see how your gun likes them. If it likes them, there's no need to go higher unless you're looking for full power loads. In that case, match the bullets with load data for that bullet and work your way up.

Titegroup data from the 50th Lyman manual for 9mm 124 and 125 grain jacketed bullets has a max of 4.1 and 4.2 grains, and they are seated at 1.060" and 1.075" respectively. Their load data for a 147 grain Speer bullet is 3.6 grains max. So, your load data is probably okay.

The 130 gr .356 bullets are fine, too. Wil Schuemann (of Schuemann barrels) recommends a jacketed bullet of .001 to .002 inches larger than the groove diameter, and lead bullets .002 to .003 inches larger for the best accuracy. Nowlin also suggests slightly oversize bullets.

Lots of folks load 0.357" and 0.358" bullets in their 9mms.

I'm trying to be careful not to start too low and get a bullet stuck in the barrel, but really don't know how low you'd have to go to do that.

You have to go really, really low to get a bullet stuck in the barrel - it probably starts getting risky around 400 fps or lower. Of course, that depends on the bullet.

 

[drband]

You have to go really, really low to get a bullet stuck in the barrel - it probably starts getting risky around 400 fps or lower. Of course, that depends on the bullet.

Even a couple of grains of powder would likely get the bullet to exit the barrel. (it might fall on the ground, but it would get out!)

 

[fxvr5]

Even a couple of grains of powder would likely get the bullet to exit the barrel. (it might fall on the ground, but it would get out!)

Yeah, it doesn't take much powder. Although I found this article interesting:

https://americanhandgunner.com/handguns/the-extreme-danger-of-squibs/

 

[NATO Reloading]

Your load at 3.8 grains is just fine with that bullet. Clean off the chrono's sensors. Its not working. If you shoot a lot, you really don't need the chrony. You can judge by recoil what is harsh, what is light, compared to factory ammo, pretty easily.

However, I would recommend you use up that TITEGROUP and move to another powder that is a lot safer, and easier to manage. Such as Unique, or AA#7, or Blue Dot, or True Blue, or Silhouette, or you name it...

If you insist on titegroup, you can go a lot more than 3.8 grains with that bullet. 4.1 would be fine, I would use it.

 

[booran1]

I'm not set on using the titegroup. Just want to make use of the bullets and titegroup was what was started on them. If it's a safe spot I'm in (and I can Chrono again correctly and confirm it's safe) I'll probably use it up and move on. I've got W231 on hand and can try that too.

 

[joneb]

Booran1,
How did you determine the COL for that bullet?

 

[Hooda Thunkit]

If a beginner reloaded asked me, I would recommend W231 over Titegroup for 9mm loads.


Nothing inherently wrong with Titegroup, it's just a bit fiddly for a new user.

But, nobody asked me.

 

[booran1]

How did you determine the COL for that bullet?

Compared the length of rounds in a few other data sets and tried to match the amount of space in the casing and not leave the round too long to fit in the chamber off the lands. I forget off the top of my head but went through a few other bullets and their length and ended up deciding to start there.

 

[booran1]

nobody asked me

I'm asking Hooda!

 

[Hooda Thunkit]

I'm asking Hooda!

Oh ! In that case, reference #35.

 

[NMachine]

We’re you shooting at a range with other shooters? I use a Caldwell chrono and when someone next to me, or even as far as a few stalls over is shooting something with a muzzle break or something really hot out of a short barrel it plays hell with my readings.

 

[booran1]

We’re you shooting at a range with other shooters?

Fortunately I have access to some private shooting space so no one else should be interfering. I promise I read the manual (because I needed to figure out how to hook it up to the app) but apparently skimmed over the part about the min distance :/. I'll keep this in mind if I am at a public range.

 

[rfwobbly]

• Look in any manual. The total loading range (Max Load minus Min Load) for W231 (aka HP-38) is about 3X larger than TG. That extra "width" is a safety cushion you need as a novice. Consider what an oversight or "slip-up" of 0.3gr would do with each powder. I'm not saying TG is "bad" or throw it away. No, I'm saying put it aside until you've refined your loading process. Then you can come back to it when you have more experience.

• Remember, everything we do in reloading is to control Chamber Pressure. Therefore become familiar with your scale and powder measure, own a trusted load manual, know the effects of changes in OAL, understand that published loads are only guides, know that every gun is different so your results may vary (higher or lower), always begin at the Starting Load and work up in very small increments.

• I know you're excited to get started. We're excited for you. But you got to know and trust your equipment first. Without knowing your equipment, you can never build a "trusted process". What I suggest you do is sit down with the Powder Measure and drop and weigh 35 loads. After weighing each load put the weight into an Excel spreadsheet. Plotting the results will allow you to see a graph of the variations. Then you can practice increasing the load by 0.2gr. All this contributes immeasurably to your knowledge base. You'll know how long it takes your powder measure to settle down. You'll know which way to turn the knob to increase and how much rotation it requires.

• Above all... ask questions.

 

[booran1]

Appreciate the advice and definitely have room to learn the equipment and become comfortable with it. Leaning towards the W231 and letting the TG sit for now, just need to work up a new recipe for the round.

 

[LiveLife]

Welcome to THR.

I am using the same Caldwell chrono and usually set it up 10-15 feet away from the muzzle for more consistent readings - https://www.btibrands.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/chronograph-and-kit-master-instructions.pdf

2. Position the unit 10 to 15 feet in front of the muzzle of a firearm

And when documenting chrono data, since many powders are temperature sensitive (or reverse temperature sensitive), I always note the ambient temperature for reference (Actually temperature of the ammunition/powder ) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...n-9mm-40s-w-45acp.799231/page-4#post-10338994

How did you determine the COL for that bullet?

Compared the length of rounds in a few other data sets and tried to match the amount of space in the casing and not leave the round too long to fit in the chamber off the lands.

I'm not set on using the titegroup ... I've got W231 on hand and can try that too.

Here's an example of determine max/working OAL using your barrel/magazine - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/help-with-9mm-loads-and-oal.851180/#post-11126373

While I like W231/HP-38, I have found Titegroup to produce slightly smaller shot groups in 9mm.

 

[booran1]

I'll definitely take a look at that OAL link.
Fyi, the last time I used the Caldwell app it stored the temp with the strings. Not sure where it pulls it's data from though

 

[LiveLife]

Fyi, the last time I used the Caldwell app it stored the temp with the strings. Not sure where it pulls it's data from though

From the device you are running the app from.

But keep in mind that temperature data may not be the temperature of the ammunition, more specifically powder.

And even on a cold day, if the barrel is warm/hot and you leave the chambered round in the barrel too long, powder temperature will go up and can affect muzzle velocity readings and chrono data.

For chrono testing, my thermometer stays with ammunition and out of sunlight during testing.

 

[lordpaxman]

One thing you may want to consider when using a chronograph is to shoot some factory ammo first as a “calibration” string. For 9mm I use a box of blazer 115 gr and record 5 velocities just to know it’s close to the last time. The more consistent you are with an optical chrono the better the results will be. Just a little deviation off axis can skew the numbers. Use the sky screens and try to make sure the lighting is even. And, remember, it’s easy to kill one.

I'm not set on using the titegroup. Just want to make use of the bullets and titegroup was what was started on them. If it's a safe spot I'm in (and I can Chrono again correctly and confirm it's safe) I'll probably use it up and move on. I've got W231 on hand and can try that too.

You didn’t say what purpose your reloads had, but if it’s just target ammo, TG can produce really nice groups, mild recoil, meters well, burns clean and overall is a good powder. It does have to be respected, just like all powders, but you need to make sure your reloading quality control is in order. It’d be easy to double charge, and you don’t want to do that. There’s a reason the majority of competition shooters use TG or N320. 231 is another good powder! Welcome to the addiction and good luck!

 

[Walkalong]

I often set the chrono on a plastic 55 gallon barrel at 5 yards, and a target at 7 yards to get numbers and do a preliminary accuracy test. I started using a target behind the chrono to help keep shots centered and hopefully be more consistent over the chrono. With the chrono at barrel height it is perfect for sitting on the bench of the table and shooting. I shoot a lot of groups sitting down.

 

[LiveLife]

One thing you may want to consider when using a chronograph is to shoot some factory ammo first as a “calibration” string. For 9mm I use a box of blazer 115 gr and record 5 velocities just to know it’s close to the last time.

Good point.

I use CCI SV 40 gr LRN 22LR because it is fairly consistent and cheaper than 9mm - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/whos-chrony-data-do-you-trust.813934/#post-10414856

 

[booran1]

One thing you may want to consider when using a chronograph is to shoot some factory ammo first

Definitely sounds good. I shot factory mixed in before, between, and after. Probably more so because the numbers were so confusing, but will make it a habit for the future

 

[Phlier]

@Walkalong I'm sorry to go completely off topic, but I just gotta tell you something...

So several years ago, my young daughter was watching Whinny the Poo. And of course, at some point during the show, he said, "Oh, bother." You know, as he does. And immediately, your signature popped into my head, and I said, "said Pooh, as he chambered another round," which I said in a voice that imitated the show's narrator.

I don't think my wife has ever forgiven me, nor has my son ever laughed so hard. "Oh, bother" has become a house hold saying here now, with another family member chiming in with the "said <family member name here>, as (s)he chambered another round."

And it's your fault!