Reloader 19 in 6.5CM vs 260Rem

[The_Next_Generation]

Hey all,

So ive recently started reloading for my Ruger Precision in 6.5 Creedmoor. My Lyman manual doesn't have any 6.5cm loads, but it has plenty for the 260 Remington. My Hornady manual has both, and I find it interesting that Reloader 19 is only ever mentioned for the 260Rem. I made some conservative loads for my 6.5cm to try (41.7, 42.3, 42.6, 42.9, and 43.2 of RL19 under a 143gr ELDx) based on what I had heard of others trying. Ive got some RL17 loads put together as well, but they should work out pretty well according to everyone else's experience.

Thing is, it seems I have no problem fitting 46gr of RL19 in the case. Everywhere I look, it seems like nobody has given RL19 in the 6.5 Creedmoor a fair shake. People seem to say its slow, which I could see, but Im curious as to why nobody has tried loading up some "hot" RL19 loads just to see what happens.

After all, if the 260 Remington can handle 46gr of RL19 under a 160gr Interlock RN, why can't the 6.5 Creedmoor take that under a 140gr projectile?

I'm looking forward to hearing what you all have to say on this as I've been Googling around for the past few days and havent found squat...

 

[Txhillbilly]

I use R 19 in my Creedmmor all the time,as well as H4350,Hybrid 100V,AA4350,Reloader 17.
My go to hunting load for the Creedmoor is Reloader 19,it's the most accurate load that I have found with the Berger 140 Hunting VLD's.

 

[The_Next_Generation]

Txhillbilly,

Thats good to hear. I had read on another forum or two that RL19 was accurate, but didnt see anything beyond that. What kinds of velocities were you seeing? How much did you stuff in the case? Any signs of overpressure? If you have any details on your load development that would be very helpful.

 

[The_Next_Generation]

Well, the weather and other circumstances didnt quite line up right to go shooting. Would still love to hear some input until Im able to get these bad boys over the chrono and on paper...

 

[GooseGestapo]

I've used it in my .260. It's "ok", however, I (my rifle) prefers RL22.
I use 47.0 with a 120gr Speer HotCor, 45.0 with 140gr Speer, 43.0 with a Sierra 160. My gun is a Remington Mod-7, and barrel twist is 1/10" by actual measurements. It shoots poorly with any tipped boatails over 123gr.
It does shoot well with the Hornady 123gr A-max and 43.0gr Rl17.

 

[The_Next_Generation]

I appreciate your input Goose, but I'm not necessarily looking for 260Rem load data. I'm really just trying to understand why RL19 hasn't been played with more in the 6.5cm. And if it has, I'd like to know the results.

 

[The_Next_Generation]

Got some good input on another site and thought I'd share it here for the THR record on this. User "Boolit_Tooth_Tony" on Reddit said the following in the Reloading section:

When the 6.5CM came out I did some experimenting with R19. I still have the notes. This was with a 28" barrel.

Highest I pushed it with a 120 Amax was 48.2 and it gave me 3108 FPS. My notes state brass started flowing at that level. Started compressing bad at 47.8.

The 142 SMK was pushed up to 45.5 giving 2915 FPS. That's the highest I went with that load.

Pushed hard the R19 gave a little more velocity over H4350, but at the expense of accuracy. R17 was the velocity king for me - I was getting over 3200 with 120s and over 3000 with 140 VLDs.

Not sure if that's what you're after - but it's all I had in my notes from experimenting with R19 and the 6.5CM.

 

[The_Next_Generation]

I've used it in my .260. It's "ok", however, I (my rifle) prefers RL22.
I use 47.0 with a 120gr Speer HotCor, 45.0 with 140gr Speer, 43.0 with a Sierra 160. My gun is a Remington Mod-7, and barrel twist is 1/10" by actual measurements. It shoots poorly with any tipped boatails over 123gr.
It does shoot well with the Hornady 123gr A-max and 43.0gr Rl17.

Looking at your data again, I'm actually kind of curious as to what kind of velocities are you getting with those loads? I find it interesting that RL22 does better in your gun, as it is an even "slower" powder than RL19. Also, how long is your barrel?

I haven't been getting much sleep lately...

 

[GooseGestapo]

2,800fps 120; 2,650 140; 2,400 160gr. 20" bbl.
Advantage of the 6.5 Creedmoor is that bullets can be seated a bit further out of the neck and not exceed magazine length in short action rifles. Not a big deal as I have to seat to the lands on my M7 to get best accuracy. But it IS accurate! But it is a HUNTING rifle. The 120 is splendid on deer. It takes a large elk to stop the 140's.

Burn rate differs from one lot to another. It can flip-flop, -they are that close. Granule size is slightly smaller with RL22, iircc. Accuracy favors RL22 in my experience.

 

[The_Next_Generation]

Those figures make me all the more hopeful for my 24" 6.5cm. Maybe I'll give some RL22 a shot as well if any comes my way. Any pressure signs with those loads?

 

[GooseGestapo]

With those loads, no.
They are about 2.0gr under published max. They are where I've found best accuracy, but are max for my gun with bullets seated to the lands. They however require no effort to chamber, as again, they're hunting loads.

 

[The_Next_Generation]

The following post contains load data beyond published MAX.

Took the light RL19 loads out, and they shot well compared to my hotter RL17 loads...

Hornady 143gr ELDx projectile. CCI #200 primer. All shots loaded to mag length (2.820" IIRC). Factory-configured Gen1 Ruger Precision in 6.5 Creedmoor.

Reloader 17:
I almost didn't shoot the 42.7gr RL17 load, because the 42.3gr RL17 load had an ES of 99! The velocities were as follows:

2846, ERROR, 2873, 2893, 2945.
Group size was .591". I realized I was letting the rounds sit in the chamber while I adjusted back on target and got "calm". I think this is what caused the progressively higher velocities? 2945ft/s is SMOKING for a 140 class bullet in a 6.5CM. I also thought that maybe the battery needed replacing, so I swapped that out too. It was only because I didn't see any pressure signs that I decided to try the 42.7gr loads.

The best RL17 load in my gun was 42.7gr. Average MV was 2872ft/s and shot into .569" for 5 shots at 100 yards. My velocities were as follows:

2892, 2832, ERROR, 2875, 2892.

I took my time with these, carefully inspecting each case and letting the gun cool off between shots. I think that is why my velocities stayed more consistent. However, if RL17 easily spikes 99ft/s just because it sat in a warm chamber for a little while, I do not consider these loads safe to use from a repeating rifle. There were some very slight pressure signs, but nothing close to what I have seen developing loads with the 208amax in a 308win.

Reloader 19:
Best of the bunch was 42.9gr of RL19. Average MV was 2,627ft/s shot into .327" for 4 shots at 100 yards. The first shot went over the target because I forgot to bring my scope back down to zero after shooting at 650 yards ...One thing that bothered me was that the velocities were recorded as follows:

2611, 2645, 2630, 2600, 2650

I'm using an old RCBS 10-10 scale to check charge weights, and just last night I realized that it sticks just slightly when its coming down from the high-end of balanced so that it reads a hair heavier than it should. The same thing happens when it swings up from the low-end of balanced - it stops just under the line and when I barely nudge it upwards it will level on the balance mark. I looked at the pivot area, and it almost looks like the "tips" of the beam (that sit in the plastic "V" blocks) look ever-so-slightly dull? I'm thinking this might be the source of my "sticking". I used a q-tip, and there wasn't any gunk. I put some CLP on there and still no improvement. It's worth noting that the "stickiness" doesn't effect the reading more than 1 granule of powder in either direction.

In closing...
Maybe something about my loading practices is bad? Maybe I should switch to the 210M? I already have #200 primers, I don't really want to go buy more of a different kind. From what I've read, the RL series of powders is either extremely temp-sensitive or not at all...it seems that the posters who claim temp-sensitivity with RL17/19/15 have actual chrono data to back up their claims, whereas the non-temp-sensitive crowd seem to rely solely on group size.

From what I've read, H4350 is popular as a non-temp-sensitive powder in many circles - and is proven in the 6.5 Creedmoor. I guess I've mostly answered my own question as to why nobody has messed much with other powders. I have some 44.8 through 45.5gr loads of RL19 to try next time I'm out - based on the load data I see for the 260Rem and what GooseGestapo shared these will be safe. Whichever shoots best, I'll load up more to do a temperature test by letting them sit in a progressively warmer chamber to see how that affects muzzle velocities.

 

[dc.fireman]

Looking at your data again, I'm actually kind of curious as to what kind of velocities are you getting with those loads? I find it interesting that RL22 does better in your gun, as it is an even "slower" powder than RL19. Also, how long is your barrel?

I haven't been getting much sleep lately...

RL22/23 are actually some rather 'go to' powders for the 6.5 family (along with 4350); I use it in a CG-63 in 6.5x55 SWE (29" barrel), and my buddy uses it in both 260 (27"barrel), and 6.5x47L (27" barrel). I've had decent results on the 300M reduced target with the Scenar 139's, the ELD-M's, and the SIE SBT 140. For some reason, I haven't found a decent load for the SIE 142, or the Lapua 123 yet.

I would think that you could push the 6.5CM a little higher than we do with the x47, or the x55, based upon the small primer pocket in the 6.5CM - perhaps try some low level x47L data, and work up? I'd be curious to see your results!

 

[The_Next_Generation]

RL22/23 are actually some rather 'go to' powders for the 6.5 family (along with 4350); I use it in a CG-63 in 6.5x55 SWE (29" barrel), and my buddy uses it in both 260 (27"barrel), and 6.5x47L (27" barrel). I've had decent results on the 300M reduced target with the Scenar 139's, the ELD-M's, and the SIE SBT 140. For some reason, I haven't found a decent load for the SIE 142, or the Lapua 123 yet.

I would think that you could push the 6.5CM a little higher than we do with the x47, or the x55, based upon the small primer pocket in the 6.5CM - perhaps try some low level x47L data, and work up? I'd be curious to see your results!

Forgot to post it here, but I took the warmer RL19 loads out and got good results. 45.5gr of RL19 produced some strangely erratic velocities, and I waited 5min between shots to let the chamber cool. I'm starting to think its something with the neck tension, or my chrono is not very accurate. Average was 2800 ft/s.

45.1gr of RL19 produced a very nice group, with consistent velocity to boot. .350" for 5 shots @ 2730ft/s average.

I played with some more RL17 loads as well. 42.1gr of RL17 made 2832ft/s, and shot into .377". Consistent velocity, too. This will be my go-to RL17 load for the 143gr ELDx. 42.5gr produced pressure signs, minimal velocity improvement, and a terrible 1.5" group.

42.1gr of RL17 under a Berger 140gr Hybrid-Target was a smidgen faster than the 143gr ELDx (as would be expected). 5 shots made it into .516". Velocity average was 2875ft/s. 65F, 26.7inHG. I think they could have done better if I wasn't stuck with a rifle case and a jacket for a front rest. I also left my rear bag at home by accident. I anticipate this load will shoot into ~.360" like the other "good" loads have done.

As far as the RL22/23 goes, I might grab some once I burn up my RL17 and RL19. I'm a college kid until December, so fun-money is somewhat limited...if I buy too much powder and projectiles, then I can't buy gas to go shoot!

ETA: Doesnt the 65cm have a large primer pocket? I hope so, otherwise either my primers are labeled wrong or my brass is really stretched out lol. I thought the 6 and 6.5x47 from lapua were the only comparable rounds with small pockets - I wish they would have followed suit with the creedmoor imho.

 

[dc.fireman]

ETA: Doesnt the 65cm have a large primer pocket? I hope so, otherwise either my primers are labeled wrong or my brass is really stretched out lol. I thought the 6 and 6.5x47 from lapua were the only comparable rounds with small pockets - I wish they would have followed suit with the creedmoor imho.

My mistake, and you are correct. You could go the other way around, to get a 6.5CM w/ a small primer pocket!

 

[Gtscotty]

Forgot to post it here, but I took the warmer RL19 loads out and got good results. 45.5gr of RL19 produced some strangely erratic velocities, and I waited 5min between shots to let the chamber cool. I'm starting to think its something with the neck tension, or my chrono is not very accurate. Average was 2800 ft/s.

45.1gr of RL19 produced a very nice group, with consistent velocity to boot. .350" for 5 shots @ 2730ft/s average.

I played with some more RL17 loads as well. 42.1gr of RL17 made 2832ft/s, and shot into .377". Consistent velocity, too. This will be my go-to RL17 load for the 143gr ELDx. 42.5gr produced pressure signs, minimal velocity improvement, and a terrible 1.5" group.

42.1gr of RL17 under a Berger 140gr Hybrid-Target was a smidgen faster than the 143gr ELDx (as would be expected). 5 shots made it into .516". Velocity average was 2875ft/s. 65F, 26.7inHG. I think they could have done better if I wasn't stuck with a rifle case and a jacket for a front rest. I also left my rear bag at home by accident. I anticipate this load will shoot into ~.360" like the other "good" loads have done.

As far as the RL22/23 goes, I might grab some once I burn up my RL17 and RL19. I'm a college kid until December, so fun-money is somewhat limited...if I buy too much powder and projectiles, then I can't buy gas to go shoot!

ETA: Doesnt the 65cm have a large primer pocket? I hope so, otherwise either my primers are labeled wrong or my brass is really stretched out lol. I thought the 6 and 6.5x47 from lapua were the only comparable rounds with small pockets - I wish they would have followed suit with the creedmoor imho.

Standard 6.5 CM definitely has a large size primer pocket, but Lapua is getting ready to put out 6.5 CM brass, and the word is that it will have a small primer pocket. So either will be available soon.

 

[Coltdriver]

I have found that the slower reloader powders work better with longer barrels and in a load where you can get them to fully ignite. I have had good success with slightly larger but slower powder loads and I have found that for a given rifle there is a point where with a larger load all of the powder will not burn. I have tried backing down the slower loads that do not fully burn and using a magnum primer to get a bit more ignition. But in the end coming back to the next faster reloader powder gives me a better result. My experimenting has been with two 6.5 X 55 Swedes and a 6.5 X 54 MS.

 

[dc.fireman]

I have found that the slower reloader powders work better with longer barrels and in a load where you can get them to fully ignite. I have had good success with slightly larger but slower powder loads and I have found that for a given rifle there is a point where with a larger load all of the powder will not burn. I have tried backing down the slower loads that do not fully burn and using a magnum primer to get a bit more ignition. But in the end coming back to the next faster reloader powder gives me a better result. My experimenting has been with two 6.5 X 55 Swedes and a 6.5 X 54 MS.

Can you share/elaborate? I'm experimenting with a CG-63 - I think I've reached the powder charge limits, and it may be time to begin experimenting with magnum match primers.

 

[The_Next_Generation]

Can you share/elaborate? I'm experimenting with a CG-63 - I think I've reached the powder charge limits, and it may be time to begin experimenting with magnum match primers.

I'm curious about this too. I guess the theory would be that the magnum primer starts more of the powder burning sooner, which means you theoretically could burn up more powder in a given barrel length than you would with a standard primer. I don't have any hands-on experience with this though. He did say that he had better luck stepping up to a slightly faster powder, so maybe the magnum primer advantages are moot.

 

[DRYHUMOR]

FWIW I found a good node at 40 gr RE19, with .008" neck tension with the ELD-X 143gr. The next node seems to be around 41.8 give or take, though I haven't gotten that far in development for this bullet. I only bought one box to try em out. This in a 26" .260 #4 profile.

I haven't chrono'd, but the velocity seems good.

I'm using non bushing dies, with the buttons polished down. Case prep involves polishing the inside neck with steel wool wrapped on the brush.

I will say this about these bullets, the weights vary a good bit......

 

[Birdman84]

Hey all,

So ive recently started reloading for my Ruger Precision in 6.5 Creedmoor. My Lyman manual doesn't have any 6.5cm loads, but it has plenty for the 260 Remington. My Hornady manual has both, and I find it interesting that Reloader 19 is only ever mentioned for the 260Rem. I made some conservative loads for my 6.5cm to try (41.7, 42.3, 42.6, 42.9, and 43.2 of RL19 under a 143gr ELDx) based on what I had heard of others trying. Ive got some RL17 loads put together as well, but they should work out pretty well according to everyone else's experience.

Thing is, it seems I have no problem fitting 46gr of RL19 in the case. Everywhere I look, it seems like nobody has given RL19 in the 6.5 Creedmoor a fair shake. People seem to say its slow, which I could see, but Im curious as to why nobody has tried loading up some "hot" RL19 loads just to see what happens.

After all, if the 260 Remington can handle 46gr of RL19 under a 160gr Interlock RN, why can't the 6.5 Creedmoor take that under a 140gr projectile?

I'm looking forward to hearing what you all have to say on this as I've been Googling around for the past few days and havent found squat...

Best load I have found for RL-19

 

[Birdman84]

I use R 19 in my Creedmmor all the time,as well as H4350,Hybrid 100V,AA4350,Reloader 17.
My go to hunting load for the Creedmoor is Reloader 19,it's the most accurate load that I have found with the Berger 140 Hunting VLD's.

How many grains of RL-19 for the 140's? I'm pushing the 147 ELD Match with 42.8gr at 2647fps. I have a box of 140 ELD Match to try and work up a load in the near future. I use RL-17 and Hybrid 100v for my 140 load currently but they are smoking out of a 26" barrel.