Remember the brouhaha about new merchant codes for firearms purchases?

[old lady new shooter]

So when they assign product numbers to orange juice it is a nefarious plot to register orange juice users?

I'm sorry but I still see absolutely nothing wrong with the proposal to identify and collect information about any product.

Orange juice does not have its own centralized code that shows orange juice purchases on your credit card bills. It could be included in purchases at grocery stores, convenience stores, drugstores (many now sell food items), or restaurants. This is a special code just for gun stores.

 

[old lady new shooter]

This is not really a 2A issue. Other than tangentially.

The more major issue is the presumption that federal agencies can be expanded without any limit nor effect.

Where are the accountants going to be found? Just where will the database be sited, and what infrastructure required to maintain it? What will that cost the taxpayers? Who will audit all these records?

Easily 80% of these records will be more than benign, and likely, banal. Any "large size" purchases will probably be sports teams, little league and the like. The few "gun related" will be 4H and similar organization skeet & trap purchases.

IIRC large sporting goods stores like Cabelas will not have this code, only gun stores per se. So sports teams, little league and similar will not be the reason.

 

[old lady new shooter]

Wouldnt matter if you spent 1 million dollars they dont know what you bought..

Your credit card approves a total based off your limits. nothing more nothing less. Dont beleive me? Call your bank or CC comapnay and ask for itemized receipts for recent purchases.

If you spend 1 million dollars at a gun store they will be at your door.

 

[old lady new shooter]

Some people here are missing the point. Originally the code was proposed by a member bank, i.e. it was internal to the banking industry. Now government is getting involved. Of course this was completely predictable and many here predicted this at the time.

 

[Don_P]

.......Or, the credit card companies could simply decide one day that they don’t want “blood on their hands,” and change their terms of use so their product (your visa) can’t be used at places like gun stores. PayPal already does this, why not the legacy CC companies?

Loss of the interest purchases generates.

 

[tarosean]

If you spend 1 million dollars at a gun store they will be at your door.

No they wouldn't. Ive never had a CC company come knocking on my door even after spending more than 6 firuges on a CC. AMEX didnt hunt me down, just saying
Personally, I routinely spend many thousands of doallars on single guns. Yet not a single knock at my door.

 

[trackskippy]

In a similar vein, this isnt all far off the ATF going around to places that sold suppressor tubes and suppressor guts out of the SGN back in the 90's and taking their sales/shipping records and cross referencing them.

All it is is data collection, and it can be used at any point something changes, and someone deems it necessary in the future.

And then theres the social credit system that China is currently using and rumored to show up here, especially if and when the digital money does arrive. Something like this is just ties in nicely. And just wait until they decide that you being fat, drinking a tad too much, and smoking cigarettes is making you unproductive and a burden on their "society".

Yea boy! The modern age is here, and you'd best be paying attention and keeping up!

 

[old lady new shooter]

No they wouldn't. Ive never had a CC company come knocking on my door even after spending more than 6 firuges on a CC. AMEX didnt hunt me down, just saying
Personally, I routinely spend many thousands of doallars on single guns. Yet not a single knock at my door.

Not the cc company, the govt. Have you not seen the recent reports of ATF coming to people's houses and asking to see some gun or guns they recently bought "to make sure you still have it"? One guy even posted his doorbell camera video of the visit.

 

[jar]

Orange juice does not have its own centralized code that shows orange juice purchases on your credit card bills. It could be included in purchases at grocery stores, convenience stores, drugstores (many now sell food items), or restaurants. This is a special code just for gun stores.

And what is different between tracking grocery sales (and if you do the research you will find that yes Virginia, orange juice sales are tracked) and firearms? And every other commodity is tracked.

No where in any of this is there anything related to tracking individual sales or registration or confiscation or any nefarious designs.

 

[Glockpride]

If YOU don’t see how this can and will be used against you at this point in time, then we can’t help you. I guess ignorance is bliss.

Enjoy your train car ride.

 

[jmorris]

I'm truly starting to believe the movie Idiocracy, is prophetic, and we have arrived.

With the money we spend on education, our system sure seems to spit out some pretty uneducated graduates…

 

[GHinNH]

Showing up in the Fedup collection of data on recipients of shooting related products.
A guy on another board was so irate that the Fedup driver wanted to scan the BACK of his drivers license for three magazines that he refused shipment. Another similar case, the vendor told the customer that they would reship his clips by alternate means. Mail?

It is against State law here in NH for anyone to (paraphrase) scan, record, retain or store in any electronic form or format, personal information obtained from any license unless authorized by the department.

A LGS here has had their attorney threaten Fedex with legal action if they do not cease that practice whenever they deliver packages. At one point they were refusing any deliveries from Fedex because of it. Not sure where that is at at the moment, it was a couple months ago.

Personally whenever anyone says they need my license, I ask if they have authorization from the State to do so, because they are breaking State law if they do not.

Sometimes makes for ummm ...spirited... exchange with the overreach wannabe authoritarian types, but I don't care. It will never stop and only get worse until we all stand up to it whenevr and wherever possible.

 

[I6turbo]

It's alarming to see how many people, even in the area of firearms and gun control, seem to just blindly trust the government and some of the large corporations, and find a way to convince themselves, "This is no big deal. They're just trying to make us safer and look out for us. They will only used this new authority and control on criminals, not on me. They already have a lot of information and control over us citizens anyway."

It's like taking candy from a baby. Hell, it's easier than taking candy from a baby. Most babies won't willingly give up their candy just because someone says, "trust me." Babies aren't that gullible.


This might be funny if it weren't for the fact that everyone will be swept along, not just the ones who didn't see it coming, or saw it and actually embraced it.

 

[jmorris]

Politics ooze’s into just about everything, generally with negative effect.

Even science, go back a few years before politics soaked in the famous Dr. Fauci, does this look or sound like the same guy pushing them and limitless boosters today?

 

[Seedy Character]

So when they assign product numbers to orange juice it is a nefarious plot to register orange juice users?

I'm sorry but I still see absolutely nothing wrong with the proposal to identify and collect information about any product.

Just as the Mayor of NYC decided sodas were causing obesity and outlawed drinks over 20 oz.

A goobermint tracking EVERYTHING, no cash, e-currency only. Dr enters info that you are diabetic, over-weight, whatever. You are buying groceries. Enter card and "forbidden" purchases are flagged. That nice steak for birthday dinner - forbidden. Potato chips, cookies, soft drink, ice cream - forbidden! You get SALAD!

You don't see their agenda. THEY may not see the agenda. It only takes 1 to slowly nudge.

Years ago, there was no e-currency. No direct deposit. No credit card. No debit card.

Little nudges, nobody sees a problem. BUT, 1 power hungry, control freak, goobermint official sees a path.

Employer REQUIRES direct deposit.
Debit card issued
TRANSACTIONS over $600 REPORTED

Wasn't that easy? No problem. Didn't see that coming.

 

[PapaG]

"Based on your prior purchases, may we suggest...".
Whether it is credit card companies, businesses, or the government, invasion of privacy is a big deal. The government is " prohibited" from having a gun registry" but doesn't seem to believe it.
Having worked in a gun store for years, I know that it is easy enough for the BATFE to travel do down the first purchaser of a firearm, it just takes a few days longer than if they had complete files of 4473's, which they have millions surrendered in shop closings.
If some bots on here see nothing wrong with being surveilled, and this is one form, then maybe they aren't real 2A defenders, or even believers.

 

[jar]

"Based on your prior purchases, may we suggest...".
Whether it is credit card companies, businesses, or the government, invasion of privacy is a big deal. The government is " prohibited" from having a gun registry" but doesn't seem to believe it.
Having worked in a gun store for years, I know that it is easy enough for the BATFE to travel do down the first purchaser of a firearm, it just takes a few days longer than if they had complete files of 4473's, which they have millions surrendered in shop closings.
If some bots on here see nothing wrong with being surveilled, and this is one form, then maybe they aren't real 2A defenders, or even believers.

Very strong 2A supporter but also able to actually read what it says.

Sorry but nothing in the issue of collecting data on commodities infringes in anyway on the 2A.

 

[trackskippy]

Very strong 2A supporter but also able to actually read what it says.

Sorry but nothing in the issue of collecting data on commodities infringes in anyway on the 2A.

Until it does.

And in case you hadnt noticed, the government has been infringing on the 2A pretty heavily since 1934, and its only gotten worse.

 

[e rex]

I'm old but I remember when we had no credit cards, if we wanted something we paid cash. Why not do that again?

 

[dogtown tom]

Some of ya'll should stop posting, disconnect from the internet and invest in Alcoa (its up 2% today).
This thread has nothing to do with guns and a lot to do with half facts, paranoia and fearmongering.

If you really want to stick it to the credit card processors.......go buy a bunch of magazines at your LGS. I'm talking magazines you read, not insert.
The merchant code will be identical. Get it? Identical. Make five separate transactions. Cause panic. OMG! OMG! look at all the guns Billys Bait N Gunz is selling! We may have to trace those guns!

 

[theotherwaldo]

Some of ya'll should stop posting, disconnect from the internet and invest in Alcoa (its up 2% today).
This thread has nothing to do with guns and a lot to do with half facts, paranoia and fearmongering.

If you really want to stick it to the credit card processors.......go buy a bunch of magazines at your LGS. I'm talking magazines you read, not insert.
The merchant code will be identical. Get it? Identical. Make five separate transactions. Cause panic. OMG! OMG! look at all the guns Billys Bait N Gunz is selling! We may have to trace those guns!

Sorry.
I've studied too much history.
Any data that is made accessible to bureaucrats or law-makers will, sooner or later, be misused.

 

[illinoisburt]

Merchant codes have been getting more detailed with time. You may have noticed a few years back that major retailers like Cabela's and Bass Pro had to recategorize their inventory to make a distinction between firearm related items in order to continue using Paypal and other online payment systems. It's not a new thing and honestly there are plenty of instances of banks cutting out specific types of transactions. Most of this is voluntary on behalf of the institution, but regulators are more than happy to "encourage" the restrictions. Generally it does not require a law, just enough pressure on the financial institution from their board, investors, regulators, and cancel culture warriors to get a bank to make exclusions. I've worked in the finance industry a long time and never am surprised by new 'industry standards' being adopted. Right now ESG (environmental, social, governance) is the new thing and it's growing faster than most people would believe.

 

[Officers'Wife]

I do not see any connection between the requirements listed and anything you mentioned.

One the wall of Dad's study is an enlarged block of writing from a letter Earl Langrebe (Indiana state representative) sent my Grandfather. The passage reads- The state of Indiana will never use seatbelt violations as cause for a traffic stop.

This alone demonstrates the connection as anything the government cannot do at once they will creep up on slowly so the public doesn't notice.

 

[dogtown tom]

Sorry.
I've studied too much history.
Any data that is made accessible to bureaucrats or law-makers will, sooner or later, be misused.

You would have been in a real tizzy thirty years ago when any jackleg with a phone book knew where you lived.

 

[toivo]

So when they assign product numbers to orange juice it is a nefarious plot to register orange juice users?

I'm sorry but I still see absolutely nothing wrong with the proposal to identify and collect information about any product.

Let me start by saying that this is purely hypothetical -- I have no reason to believe that what I'm about to describe is actually happening. But it's what could happen, and what a lot of people would like to see happen.

Let's say I'm a non-smoker but my partner is a smoker. Let's say she asks me to pick her up a pack of cigarettes every time I stop at the gas station. Let's say I use my credit card to buy these cigarettes. Now imagine that the purchases were coded and my health insurance provider had access to my purchase information. Would they raise my premiums? I'm sure they'd love to if they could.

Extrapolate that to all kinds of other purchases: alcohol, prescription medications, guns ... Imagine all the things that various entities could do with the information in order to advance their various agendas.