Remington 700 PSS or Savage 10FP-LE2B And Why?

[DonNikmare]

When answering the poll, please try to choose the 1st or 2nd choice as I'm currently in the third answer category and want to make up my mind.

Just doing research and looking for pro's and con's about either of these two options.

It seems both have identical accuracy. Is that the case?

Are the barrels equally heavy and long?

What difference would the forged vs the Savage kind of rifling make and which is better?

Thanks!

Nik

 

[Black Majik]

Both are good shooters.

Personal choice I will be going for the Remington PSS. To me its all personal preference, and I think the rifle looks better with the fatter stock


Plus the Savage stock feels kinda cheap to me.

But both will be good shooters.

 

[4v50 Gary]

Remington, but VSS. I prefer the slimmer stock since I don't have a gunbearer.

 

[Mulliga]

I voted for "both are good," but my Remington 700 shoots fine for what it's worth.

 

[MiniZ]

The Savage is a great gun, especially for the money.

However, once you have replaced the pathetic stock, you are near the price of a Remington...

For me it boils down to personal preference. Either will do the job.

 

[sumpnz]

You should have put a "Neither" choice in the poll. Both are push feed rifles, and for reasons, mostly of personal preference, I would want a controlled round feed rifle. Maybe it's because I have two Mausers, and the one Savage I had a chance to play with, admitidly for only 3 shots, with it's push feed action was just not at all to my liking.

That said, my FIL really likes Rem 700's, but he also has a pre-64 M70 Featherweight .270 that I put dibs on a few years ago when he gave my (now) wife and I the opportunity to pick out the guns we want when he's gone (it was kind of a tough choice between that and his BAR in 30-06). FWIW my wife put dibs on the .22LR she learned to shoot with as a kid.

 

[ocabj]

The Savage is a great gun, especially for the money.

However, once you have replaced the pathetic stock, you are near the price of a Remington...

Note that the Savage in the poll is the 10FP-LE2B which is the model that comes with the McMillan A-2 stock. This alone is a $425 value, minimum. The 10FP-LE2B runs for about the same price as a Remington 700 PSS.

That said, it's pretty much a toss up. People argue that the 700 will have better resale value. But frankly, I've never seen a used Savage 10/110 model for sale before, so that could mean that people don't sell Savages used, or they get snapped up really quick by people building project guns.

The Savage comes with the Accutrigger, which is designed to be altered by the operator. The 700 factory trigger can be adjusted, but I'm not sure if it was an intended feature. Both have the same options as far as scope mounts. The Remington 700 PSS has a 1 in 12" twist vs the Savage's 1 in 10" twist. I haven't heard any arguements of one being better than the other for .308.

While both have good stocks, the McMillan A-2 stock on the LE2B is a cut above the the HS Precision stock on the 700 PSS.

Assuming both were the exact same price and I didn't already own a bolt gun, I'd go with the Savage 10FP-LE2B.

 

[hksw]

...the 10FP-LE2B which is the model that comes with the McMillan A-2 stock.

It actually is the McMillan A3 stock (less tall forearm).

 

[Jick42]

Honestly, i am a Remington guy. But, with that said, with the 2 choices you have, i picked the Savage. This is why.
Both will cost you $700+. The PSS will be right at 700 and the Savage will be around 780. But, you have to remember, your getting a McMillian Stock on that Savage. That alone is a 400+ value. And believe me, that Stock is TWICE what the factory PSS stock is. And you can also call McMillians, and they can send you the Adjustable Saddle Cheek Rest, for $99.00. So, i just dont see how you could lose with the Savage. Accuracy will be Sub-MOA from both rifles. Both have 26" barrels. So no difference there. The Twist rate will make a difference only in stabalizing the heavier bullets a little better. The 1:10 will shoot the 175gr bullets a little better than the 1:12. If your not shooting out to 800-1,000 yds. The 168gr bullets will work equally in either twist rate. The Savage will be about a pound heavier with the McMillians stock. But thats not really that bad. I can only see a smile on your face with either rifle, but having to choose one, i'd go with the Savage.

 

[Quintin Likely]

I've got both. Well, sorta. A pre Accu-Trigger 10FP with the standard flimsy stock and a 700VS. I can't really see how you could go wrong with either; they're both great rifles that'll shoot better than a lot of their operators.

In .308s, the Savages do have a faster twist if you're into throwing the heavy (175+ gr) bullets downrange. In .223s, unless you step up to a PSS, the Savages have a faster twist too. I did get to play with an Accu-Trigger'd 10FP a few weekends ago, and while it is pretty sweet for a factory offering, I'm now starting to dislike the Glockish trigger bar sticking out. If aftermarket accessories are a big thing for you, I think you can find more stuff to bolt on a Remington than you can a Savage. I personally like the position of the Remington's safety compared to the Savage, even though the Savage has a three position safety as opposed to the Remington's fire and safe. I don't like Remington's PC bolt lock thingy. Accuracy wise out of mine have been a toss up, they'll outshoot me on their worse days.

I'd say handle both and buy whatever you like best. I doubt you'll be disappointed with either.

 

[JNewell]

I have owned and do own rifles with both HS Precision and McMillan stocks. Unless the stock on the Savage is one of the more elaborate adjustable stocks, I have a hard time thinking that you're getting twice the stock on the Savage. Can one of you guys fill that thought out a little bit?

 

[cslinger]

I said Savage but in reality they are both very very good. The Remington was better out of the box for years but Savage now offers the Accutrigger and very good stocks which I personally think edges out the Remington......albeit it Remington or almost Remington prices.

For me personally, a novice bolt gun precision shooter at best, I like the Savage better for two main reasons. Remington had a rash of bolt handles breaking some years ago and from talking to various gunsmiths and people who I trust Savage seems to make a better more accurate stock barrel.

Now as for the Bolt handle issues, it was QC or a bad batch of steel or whatever. Could have happened to anyone. The Marines and just about ever law enforcement org. seem to be happy with the Remmy so they must be a hell of a gun. I just think the Savage is still the better bang for the buck even though it is now close in terms of cost and I think the recent improvements put it ahead of the Remmy in terms of trigger and stock.

I have pre-accutrigger 10FP and I am very happy with it have gotten a 5 shot group that measured .65in at 100 yards with a pretty basic Burris 10X scope..............................................haven't been able to do anything like that since but I am pretty sure that is the fault of the idiot behind the trigger as I really am not a very good shot. I have managed a 3 shot group that was around .25in at 100 yards once as well. Other than those groups I pretty much suck so those are my GRACE OF GOD feathers in my bolt gun shooting cap.

 

[DonNikmare]

I was pretty much set on the Rem 700 PSS until a couple of nights ago when someone pointed out the Savage's McMillan stock, accu trigger, and said something about the rifling on the Savage not being forged but something else better.

I like the McMillan stock's deeper thumb groove but also the PSS's fatness filling out my palm. The PSS I handled also had a serrated trigger which I like too.

The 1:10 will shoot the 175gr bullets a little better than the 1:12. If your not shooting out to 800-1,000 yds.

Jick42, would you clarify what you meant. I want to shoot at up to 1000 yds. but I'm not sure if you are saying 1:10 is better than 1:12 for that purpose or the other way around.

Thanks for all the help!

Nik

 

[warrior23]

I voted for both because I have both.I think the Savage outta the box is a better shooter but the Remy has more to offer with gunsmithing and parts.My Savage 10fple2b cost alot more than my 700p"s,but I have alot more custom work done on the Remys and the Savage just wont come close to their capabilities shooting.

 

[shoobe01]

PSS. I handled both extensively and decided on the Remington. Not SR-60 smooth (I've played with one, don't get me started as I can't afford it), but smoother than the Savages. Also, much more popular so that many upgrades and accessories. I don't mean rails and lights, I mean people who will put in a new mag and steel floorplate.

The Remington trigger was originally designed to be operator adjusted. Its very, very easy to do and I (after adjustment) have no intention of ever buying another trigger or sending it away for stoning.

Pushfeed? Bah! Never seen valid, field proof either way after about 100 years of actual written argument, so I ignore it.

The PSS does not come with a "factory" stock. Its an HS Precision. A rather nice stock, I think. Its very light and very strong as far as I can tell. Also, it and the gun seem to be wonderfully well mated. I have dismounted the stock and (with a torque wrench and not undue care) had NO (zero) point of impact change. I know it looks a bit pedestrian compared to some of the swoopy McBros stocks, but it fits my bipod, sling and under-butt socks pefectly. There is no place I have shot where a different stock would have made it easier.

If you need a cheekpiece, you mounted the scope too high. Even night vision systems these days are getting small enough it shouldn't matter. Normal stock height is fine with any scope up to 50mm objective.

I don't know about the Savages, but this thing can be very black and scary when its hiding. If that's your thing.

All my PSS photos

 

[DonNikmare]

Nice Pics and a very good looking rifle!!!

Nik

 

[Mulliga]

Not sure about the supposed drawbacks of the pushfeed, either. My 700 readily cycles upside down and while swinging the rifle fairly fast. Might be a problem with oversized or dirty cases, I suppose, but GIGO.

 

[Jick42]

JNewell, what i was saying about the Mcmillian stock being better than the HS PSS stock was this. You have to remember this HS Precision isn't the PST25 $495.00 stock. Granted the McMillian on the savage isn't the Thumbwheel adjustable stock either, but it is superior to the stock PSS stock. Better ergonomics, and quality all the way around. And a simple call to McMillian, and $99.00, you have your adjustable saddle cheek rest on your McMillian. I was not degrading the HS Precision stock, because it is a fine stock, i just think your getting more quality in the McMillian.

DonNikmare, this is what i was saying about the twist rates. The 1:12 will shoot the 168gr bullets superbly, but may not shoot the 175's as well. The 1:10 will handle the 175's, and most all of us who are shooting 1,000 yds, are using the 175's. Hope this helps. Honestly you will be happy with either gun you get, you've just got to pick the one that feels good to YOU, and the one YOU feel confident behind.

Nick

 

[Ash]

Savage

Go with the Savage as it may not have the panache of the Remington, it will prove easier and cheaper to gunsmith down the road should you decide to change barrels and the like. Also, the new Accutrigger is better than the Remington fare.

Davis

 

[JNewell]

Jick42, here's a follow-up. Forgetting the MSRP, unless I'm missing something, the McM stock is just synthetic ("just", ha, I know -- I'm not slighting McM quality -- I'm a user and a believer). However, the HSP stock adds a machined aluminum bedding block that in my personal experience is a real benefit. Can you elaborate a little on the McM A2 and why you believe it's superior to the HSP stocks on the PSS and LTR? Discussing here, not arguing.

 

[Jick42]

JNewell, absolutely on the discussing and not arguing. I mean we all have our personal preferences, and that leads to different likes and dislikes. I hope that i have not come off as sounding like i was knocking the HSP stock, and your right its not just another factory stock. It is better than a factory remington stock. My main reasons for leaning towards the MCM over the HSP is this. Ergonomics for one. For me, comfort and confidence are the most important things to me. Thats why i believe DonNikmare, should truly choose the rifle that he feels the most confident behind. Secondly, i believe the MCM is a little more rugged. And that leads me to the technical side of it. I believe the inletting of the MCM stocks is as good as it gets for field use. I beleive the aluminum bedding blocks that the HSP has is more geared towards Benchrest. I have run across some of the HSP stocks that the barrel channel doesnt always seem to be formed correctly. I have personally had this problem myself, on one. But only one. Another thing that i have seen, its not a big deal to most people, but to some it is. I believe the MCM stock absorbs a little more of percieved recoil also. Recoil is not an issue with me, but i know to some people it can be the difference maker. But again, this could go as personal preference. JNewell, i may have been a little harsh when i said it was "TWICE" the stock. The HSP is a great stock no doubt about it. I just think as far as craftsmanship, the MCM on the savage will have a slight advantage. I have owned and shot both. As far as accuracy. They are equal. So thats why i say, he can't go wrong in either he chooses. Either one will more than likely shoot better than him, me and yourself on pretty much any given day.

One other thing i must say to clarify myself. I said you can get the saddle cheeck piece to fit the MCM. While this is true, unless your scope is ungodly high, more than likely, you'll never need it. Just thought i would throw that in there and not make it sound like the ADJ Saddle was a must have, because its really not. I just didn't want to use that as a selling point to you DonNikmare.

Nick

 

[jstpush]

The big question is what do you want to do with the gun.

If you are going to be using it for a 'social' firearm, the PSS is with it's (ahem) inferior stock, is and has been the mainstay for years. I've had several of both, PSS's and Savages. My team of shooters has about 10-1 PSS's over the Savage, because we know what it eats. The Savages tend to be finicky and you have to experiment with different bullet weights and such. The PSS will consistantly, OOTB, shoot sub-MOA groups with Fed. Premium GM match rounds. That goes for any caliber of PSS. Get the Federal match ammo, and the gun will shoot.

The only gun that I would shoot over the PSS is the FN, but that's another story.

Look at what application you are trying to fill, and judge which tool works best. If I'm out in the field, I know that I can get Rem. parts, because that is what the majority of the shooters will be dragging.

 

[Gewehr98]

Controlled-round feeding is wonderful for hunting dangerous game.

Otherwise, it's pretty much a non-issue. When I go on safari, I'll take one of my 98 Mausers. Push-feed works just fine for precision/law-enforcement/target/sniper rifles like the Remington 700 PSS and Savage 10FP series.

Myself, I have several Remingtons and a couple Savages.

My 700PSS is a sweetheart in terms of accuracy and modularity when wishing to try different parts and pieces to fit my purposes. To gain better accuracy from a box-stock system requires an even greater jump in purchase price, and it's not a linear jump with respect to accuracy vs. price.



My Savages are older 110 series guns, with the older adjustable trigger. I won't buy an AccuTrigger Savage (I personally think they're gay), unless I also buy a proper aftermarket trigger like RifleBasix and install it. Savage's non-McMillan synthetic stock for their heavy-barreled rifles is also very flimsy compared to the excellent H-S Precision stock offered on the Remington PSS. I have had folks who worked for me buy the Savage 10FP series rifles and immediately buy a different stock. That should be a subtle hint to Savage, but they are trying to keep prices down on an otherwise excellent and accurate rifle...

 

[Waffen]

If we are talking about a bench gun here, why does the accu-trigger matter? All my "range only" bench guns get triggers sub 1lb pulls. The only factory trigger out there that can do that is a CZ Set trigger. I think it's safe to say that if you got a Savage, or if you got a Remington you would probably be replacing the trigger.

That being said I would go with a Remington for reasons already stated. The aftermarket parts. Half the fun of owning a gun is adding in aftermarket parts to the gun (triggers/firing pin assy's/bipods/ect).

I would love to own a savage, except for one thing. I just can't bring myself to like the way the action feels (petty when it comes to bench shooting) and I can't stand the way they look. I know it's a BS complaint, but if I'm going to drop 800-900 on the rifle alone I've got to like the way it looks, and I can't stand the look of the Savage safety. I do have a buddy who purchased 2 savage rifles this year, and they shoot very well. I don't think you're going to get a bad rifle with any make you choose.

As for the HS Precision and McMillan debate, it's kind of like asking do you want to drive a Porsche (HSP) or a Ferrari(McMillan). Both are top notch stocks. As far as accuracy I think they would be about the same after you skim the top with glass bedding to add that perfect fit. I've shot off McMillans and they are nicer feeling stocks, there is no doubt about it, and everyone will know you're shooting somthing serious when you show up with a McMillan, however in reality I don't think you loose that much when you shoot off an HSP platform.

Barrel change will be easier with a Savage, but if you're going to re-barrel why on earth would you pick a factory barrel? You save a hundred dollars or so, but think of the gun you would have with a Krieger, Shilen, Lilja or Hart barrel on either of these guns.

I'm a Rem guy so take it for what it's worth. (not much)

Edit: I'll throw in a pic of my Rem 700. Not a PSS, but a Sendero. It's the same thing without the extra sling stud. Mine is chambered in .300 Ultra.

 

[cheaptrick]

What:
Remington VSLH .308 5 shot group @ 100.

Why: