Rent a gun...need to fill out a 4473?

[Paulus]

My local gun shop/indoor firing range started a new protocol a few months back. If you want to rent a gun to try out on their range, you have to fill out a 4473.

This is disappointing since I don't think I'll be renting guns anymore just to see whether they fit me.

Is this a new law or just a puckering of legal liability?

BTW, I'm in the great gun-friendly state of Indiana.

Paulus

 

[Rumble]

I think that's a bad idea - technically, you'd be lying on the form, since you're not purchasing the gun (and are therefore not the actual buyer). Nor is ownership of the gun being transferred to you. I'd refuse.

Wait: is this to try out a gun from their rental shelf? Or some "try-before-you-buy" thing?

 

[Paulus]

Hey Rumble,

It's to rent any gun. No "try before you buy" type of thing.

Paulus

 

[Rumble]

Huh. Well, I'd refuse, and simply not patronize them (rather than get in their face about how it's at the very least, misuse of a government form). That's a silly thing to require.

I suppose the other question is do they run the background check, or just make you complete the form? Even if it's the latter, that's pretty lame. My local rental range holds my driver's license - that way, they have the same information but none of this weird 4473 business.

 

[Tom Servo]

I'll have to double-check at work tomorrow, but I'm sure that it's illegal to use that form for anything BUT firearms sales.

If they call in a NICS check, they're tying up a system that's already overtaxed this time of year.

In any case, misuse of the form is a really good invitation to have the ATF come and decide to do a good, thorough, excruciating audit of your (the gunshop) records.

I wouldn't fill out the form, since essentially you're being asked to lie on question 12A.

Very weird policy, indeed.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

My local range doesn't hold anything. They check to be sure the renter is over 21 (although kids can shoot if accompanied by an adult), but they don't ask for a permit, a driver's license, or anything else.

 

[Rumble]

AguilaBlanca-

Upon reflection, I think my normal range asks to see the DL and ask me to sign a statement saying I'm not high, drunk, or just crazy. There is one near my folks' place that hangs on to your DL while you shoot. Regardless, nobody's asking me to fill out 4473's!

 

[Eightball]

You should call the ATF on this matter. Nothing like an ATF audit to make them realize their place in the world. And they're responsible for all that information, legally, so if it's not used to call in a transfer (and needs to be kept the 20 years), then you have the right to stand there and watch them shred the 4473, or you could take them to court in case of identity theft. And if they call in your 4473, that's fraud on both of your parts--because you're not buying a firearm, and they're not selling one, and they do not legally need a background check.

But once again, I'm not a lawyer, I'd call the ATF and give them a nice, long description of the problem, giving them the place's name, number, and address, in case the ATF decides to have a nice chat with them.

 

[FieroCDSP]

Most of the ranges I've seen that hold them do it as collateral of a sort. You don't get it back until you pay for the rental, and all of the targets and ammo you use up while there. Add it all up at the end, pay and get your license back.

 

[CryingWolf]

The one indoor range the wife and I went to held onto our DL for our range time. They didn't charge us up front, paid for the range time after we finished. We did have to fill out a form, a range safety form, understanding the safety rules on the range etc. Seems like it was a form they created. I didn't rent a firearm but I don't think they would have you fill out a NICS form or tie up a busy system.

 

[Hkmp5sd]

Is this a new law or just a puckering of legal liability?

It is something that they made up. ATF does not consider renting a firearm at a range to be "transferring" that firearm and have ruled that a 4473 is not required.

(E7) Are rental firearms subject to recordkeeping control?

Yes, if the firearms are taken off the premises of the licensee. However, the recordkeeping is not imposed on the loan or rental of firearms for use only on the premises of the licensee.

ATF P 5300.4 - Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide 2005 (Revised - 9/05) - Questions and Answers Section

 

[mp510]

The 4473 and NICS are statutorily required for a pistol rental in Indiana. The state law does not seem to differentiate between a temperary on-premisis rental and a full transfer. This isn't the 1st time that the issue has come up here.

http://www.in.gov/legislative/ic/code/title35/ar47/ch2.5.html

IC 35-47-2.5-4
Dealer requirements before sale, rent, trade, or transfer
Sec. 4. (a) A dealer may not sell, rent, trade, or transfer from the dealer's inventory a handgun to a person until the dealer has done all

of the following:
(1) Obtained from the prospective purchaser a completed and signed Form 4473 as specified in section 3 of this chapter.
(2) Contacted NICS:
(A) by telephone; or
(B) electronically;
to request a background check on the prospective purchaser.
(3) Received authorization from NICS to transfer the handgun to the prospective purchaser.
(b) The dealer shall record the NICS transaction number on Form 4473 and retain Form 4473 for auditing purposes.
As added by P.L.17-1997, SEC.8. Amended by P.L.190-2006, SEC.8.

 

[kingpin008]

That's very wierd, and very shady. They're basically asking you to lie on a Federal Affadavit, in order to rent a gun. I'd double-check to make sure that that is exactly what they want you to do, and if so - leave. Call the ATF, and let them know what's going on. At the very least, they're mis-using the forms and should be given a "reminder" if necessary, of why that's a bad idea.

 

[pete f]

The local ranges that rent want a picture ID<


unfortunately this is because they do not want to dig thru a dead guy's belongings to find out the next of Kin. This is after a few losers have decided to rent a gun, use one cartridge to attempt/commit suicide.

 

[Hkmp5sd]

The 4473 and NICS are statutorily required for a pistol rental in Indiana.

Yea, but wouldn't that be either all of the paperwork or none? It doesn't sound like they are doing the complete transfer with NICS checks, logging the guns in their bound books, etc. just to go shoot a handgun on their range and then transferring the gun back to themselves when completed.

I think the clincher in the IN law is "from the dealer's inventory." An onsite rental never leaves the dealer's inventory. They are mimicking the federal law about rentals leaving the licensed premises.