Should Ethnicity and Race matter on 4473?

[Carl N. Brown]

Well, the data on the 4473 is used to call in the background check, may be the NICS National Instant Check System is set up different these days, with Hispanic ethnicity as well as different race categories in descriptions.

 

[Striker]

Well, the data on the 4473 is used to call in the background check, may be the NICS National Instant Check System is set up different these days, with Hispanic ethnicity as well as different race categories in descriptions.

It is, as of Monday July 9th. When calling in the to NICS, a dealer is now asked the ethnicity, as well as the race of the customer, as part of the check.

 

[Owen]

as far as why hispanic is seaparted out is that Hispanics can be any race. South America has large population of people of african, european and asian decent. Its entirely possible for someone originating in Argentina to be an Asian Hispanic.

 

[Iramo94]

as far as why hispanic is seaparted out is that Hispanics can be any race. South America has large population of people of african, european and asian decent. Its entirely possible for someone originating in Argentina to be an Asian Hispanic.

In addition to that, no matter what race a hispanic person is, he/she MUST be at least a little teeny tiny bit white (or Moorish? Not sure what race the Moors are), because being hispanic means that, by definition, someone in your ancestry was at one point in Spain.

 

[berettaboy]

Used to profile???

 

[Sam1911]

It is, as of Monday July 9th. When calling in the to NICS, a dealer is now asked the ethnicity, as well as the race of the customer, as part of the check.

Ok, so that's really the answer as far as the form is concerned. The list of questions the dealer has to answer when discovering if you show up in the prohibited persons list now includes whether you are hispanic.

That information is purged frequently (and doesn't include any identifying info about the gun you're buying) so it is unclear why people still suggest that this is in some way "profiling."

 

[Warp]

No. They must be kept for 20 years and then may be destroyed.

They only go to the feds if the shop goes out of business before the 20 year mark.

So they must legally be kept for 20 years, after which you are relying on either the gun shop or the feds to destroy them.

 

[1911 guy]

The FBI already has your name, date of birth, social security number or Immigration number and run a background check (actually just a search for previous offenses) but other than that, they have no business asking ANYTHING else. When the government gets statistics, they ALWAYS find a way to hose someone with them.

 

[Johannes_Paulsen]

So....what do you check off if you're Brazilian?

 

[dogtown tom]

Johannes_Paulsen So....what do you check off if you're Brazilian?

See the ATF Instructions in post #1.

 

[Sam1911]

So they must legally be kept for 20 years, after which you are relying on either the gun shop or the feds to destroy them.

"Relying on?" Not really. I'm not relying on anyone to do anything with them. I have a hard time imagining a dealer meticulously sorting through their records to pull out and burn any 4473s older than 20 years and one day. I imagine most of them just sit and sit and sit until deterioration and decomposition have had their way.

The law doesn't say they HAVE to destroy them, just that they are no longer required to keep them.

I'd say after 20 years the relevancy of any information on such forms is pretty poor anyway (due to guns sold and resold, purchasers moving away or passing away, etc, etc.) so it's unlikely that they'd be of any value to anyone.

 

[dogtown tom]

Sam1911 Qu I have a hard time imagining a dealer meticulously sorting through their records to pull out and burn any 4473s older than 20 years and one day. I imagine most of them just sit and sit and sit until deterioration and decomposition have had their way.

I think most dealers file their 4473's by date or sequence (#1, #2, #3,etc) rather than alphabetical so they will have storage boxes compiled by the month of the transaction. Then they just burn/shred/toss those twenty year olds as soon as they can.........they take up a LOT OF ROOM

My IOI told me that one way for a dealer to "rid himself" of storing all those 4473's was to apply for a "new" FFL and let the old one lapse.....then he just turns in all his old forms, bound book and starts anew.

 

[Sam1911]

Ahhh, that makes sense, and is kind of funny, too. Using the rules "against 'em" to divest yourself of the responsibility for keeping all those tons of useless paper!