Review of the Taurus Millennium G2 PT111

[C0untZer0]

I recently purchased a Taurus Millennium G2 PT111. I wanted a cheap gun to keep in a Get Home Bag. Almost everything else I have is 9mm (besides .22LR), so I wanted to stick with 9mm. I didn't want to spend a lot of money for something that was basically just going to sit in a bag most of the time. I wanted something really cheap and not something that I would worry about exposing to the heat, humidity and freezing temperatures of sitting in the trunk of my car, which is where the GHB would be (mostly)

I have noticed the Taurus Millennium G2 PT111 going for super-cheap prices like $199.99 and I'd read good things about them here on the High Road from owners. When they went on sale at Whittaker Guns for 184.99 + 12.99 S&H, it was super cheap so I just had to get one.

Here it is shown next to the Kahr CM9 and the Rohrbaugh R9:

.

 

[C0untZer0]

The Good, the Bad and the Ugly.

One thing that I've learned with budget pistols is that what is “good” about budget pistols is the price and the value, and once you get past that – most everything is mediocre. When I read reviews of budget pistols, a lot of authors write things like “The trigger is good for a $200.00 gun.” I don't think that kind of subjective evaluation helps other potential buyers so I'm going to try to be as objective as I can

The Good:

Well kind of an executive summary here – the price and the value is pretty good . One hundred and ninety eight bucks for a 12+1 compact pistol that works – is a pretty good deal.

The gun seems reliable – so far. I shot a little over 100 rounds today and the gun cycled everything I fed it – 115gr Winchester “Target” FMJ, 147gr bonded Golden Saber, 147gr Federal HST, 124gr Lawman TMJ, 115gr Federal “Champion” FMJ. 123gr ZQI “NATO” FMJ and 115gr TULA BrassMax FMJ. I didn't have any malfunctions.

The slide is very easy to rack. Its the easiest slide to operate of any 9mm that I have.

The sights are 3-dot, easy to use and adjustable. I don't know how many budget compacts have fully adjustable sights, but this is a nice feature on this gun.

The manual safety is easy to engage and disengage without changing my grip. Because this is a compact pistol, the lever doesn't fall right in line with the pad of my thumb but its so easy to manipulate that I can flick it off or on by using the inside of the first joint in my thumb to move it.

The magazine release is easy to operate and the magazines drop free when the magazine release is pressed.

The gun is accurate - not 25 yard competition accurate, but it is generally accurate. The trigger is no where as good as my Kahr CM9 but I shoot the Taurus Millennium G2 PT 111 more accurately than I do the CM9. Here is a 10 shot group at 21 feet from a rest. This was with 124gr Lawman TMJ, which I've found to be the most accurate round from the gun:

I discovered when I got to the range that I forgot my glasses, maybe I'll do better at the next outing. I also forgot my tools although I probably should have someone watch me shoot the pistol before I go adjusting the sights.

 

[C0untZer0]

The Bad

I can't categorize the trigger on the Millennium G2 PT 111 as good. Taurus claims the “trigger system solves the double action/single action dilemma once and for all.” Once the slide is moved to the rear the striker is tensioned and the trigger is in what Taurus calls “Single Action Mode” In Single Action mode there is a tremendous amount of take up in the trigger, its almost like a Kahr trigger when the slide hasn't been cycled. If you didn't know better it seems like a dead trigger, or a broken trigger. After that long takeup the rearward movement stops – like hitting a wall, and then quite a bit of pressure to get the trigger to break. I didn’t measure the pressure but I'd guestimate that it is around 10 lbs. I find it difficult to keep a good sight picture when I'm applying the pressure to get the trigger to break. There are some“Fluff and Buff” things you can do to improve the trigger and like most triggers it is supposed to improve with use. Here is a fairly detailed trigger job:

http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/millennium-pro-pistols/170697-pt111-g2-trigger-talk.html

 

[C0untZer0]

And the Ugly

Whatever coating they use is already showing signs of wear and I can see the sheen of bare metal starting to show through.

People may say that this is where metal parts rub against each other, but I have a few Glocks with hundreds of rounds through them and they don't show this kind of wear. Yes there is a big price difference between a Glock and a Taurus G2, but just looking at it objectively, the coating on the Taurus is not that good. The edge of the mag release button looks like it either didn't get coated or they did an additional machining operation on it after it was coated and then forgot to re-coat it.

 

[C0untZer0]

My pistol came with some blue schmutz on the inside of the frame. I tried to use my fingernail to get it off, it was brittle and broke into tiny fragments. After about 10 minutes with a Q-Tip and a toothpick I got all the blue flakes out of the gun. This picture was taken before I wiped the gun down so its another good shot of how much oil Taurus put on it for transit:

 

[C0untZer0]

The Mediocre and Miscellaneous:

When I unboxed my PT111 it was dripping with oil. It was undoubtedly the wettest, oiliest pistol I've ever purchased. After I wiped this thing down, I took it apart and wiped down the insides, I wrapped it a paper towel and went to bed. The next morning I could see oil seeping out from the front sight, rear sight, the chamber indicator and the extractor.

You can see that there is so much oil that the bag is sticking to the side of the gun. The bumps are silica balls from the desiccant pack which broke.

Here is another picture of the gun fresh out of the bag. Even the polymer had a coat of oil on it. Even after wiping all of the polymer with rags and wrapping it in towels, a week later when I just dry fire this gun, my shooting hand ends up smelling like oil. I feel like I need to wash the polymer with Dawn dish-washing detergent or something. The desiccant pack was completely saturated in oil also. The desiccant pack broke in transit.

Since the Taurus Millennium G2 PT111 has a chamber flag in it, the silica pellets got everywhere, including the slide rail slots and in the striker channel – behind the striker. When I took the flag out, the gun wouldn't go into battery. It was jammed up with silica pellets. So I spent about 10 minutes with a toothpick getting those things out of the gun and then it worked. It passed a function test with a Snap-Cap. Here is a picture of the gun just stuck, jammed up with silica balls:

 

[C0untZer0]

General comments:

I found recoil with the Taurus Millennium G2 PT 111 to be a bit snappy. I know this sounds strange but I felt like the Millennium G2 PT 111 had more recoil than my CM9, but I know the Millennium G2 was more controllable. I could make follow-up shots with the Millennium G2 much more quickly than I could with my CM9. Both magazines that come with the G2 have extensions. This did allow me to get all three fingers on the grip although my fingers did feel a little crowded. One thing that I experienced with the Taurus Millennium G2 PT111 that I hadn't with other guns – was sore muscles in my shooting hand. I don't think this was from getting pounded by the recoil I think it was from gripping the gun. I think it just fit my hand in such a way that I ended up with sore muscles. I shoot a Rohrbaugh R9 and my Kahr CM9 regularly, and have never experienced sore muscles in my shooting hand like that.

I do think this gun is an incredible deal for $185 bucks. Its a serviceable gun. I didn't put it through an ammo torture test, but it shot a fairly wide variety of ammo with no malfunctions.

 

[Mike J]

I own one of these. I like it a lot & consider it a great value for the money spent.

The finish on the slide is bluing. It is not going to be as tough as a nitrided finish. It will rust if you carry it close to your body if you don't keep it well oiled or waxed. I carry my PT 111 during warm weather. Johnsons Paste Wax works well to keep the slide from rusting.

My trigger is no where near 10 pounds. I would guess 4 1/2 to 5 maybe. The double action trigger isn't bad either in my opinion though I couldn't care less about second strike capability. If one is in a situation & the round doesn't fire tap, rack, bang is the proper response not to keeping pulling the trigger. I would honestly probably like it better if it were DAO. The SA trigger bugged me to start with but after shooting it for a while I find it to be servicable. I don't like the long travel but I can do okay with it.

It isn't the nicest gun ever made but I believe it is fine for its intended purpose.

 

[maxxhavoc]

Mine had the broken Silica gel pack as well. It took awhile to get all the crunchy bits out.

Mineral spirits cleaned up the lube quickly.

For additional fun and shooting comfort, get an 18-roung Sig 226 Magazine and an X-grip for the S&W M&P Compact. It gives you about another inch of grip and 18+1 rounds. The magazine works like it was made for the Taurus. Makes a good reload mag.

 

[Pokajabba]

Count, lets compare apples to apples here: it cost you 198 bucks to get the gun, NOT INCLUDING YOUR FFL TRANSFER COST. So, that would make it anywhere from 218-228 total price. For about $230, does it compare well to something like the Hi-Point or JA9? Absolutely, it's much more practical and likely better built than those guns.

But everything in life is relative and the next question is: Does this roughly $230 gun compete with $300 guns like the Ruger 9E or S&W Sigma or SCCY?

Great review btw.

 

[C0untZer0]

Whittaker Guns had them on sale for 184.99 + 12.99 S&H. The gun cost $197.98 total and I paid a $20.00 FFL transfer fee.

People pay different fees for the transfer and some people may have such a good working relationship with their LGS that they're not charged a transfer fee at all. Some people have to pay other miscellaneous fees and whatnot so I usually just leave that off and list just the price of the gun plus shipping.

At one time, the SCCY could be had for $199.99 + $5.99 S&H but no longer. The cheapest store price that I can find on the CPX II is $242.00

The SCCY CPX-2 holds 10+1 and is a DAO hammer fired pistol while the Taurus Millennium G2 PT111 holds 12+1 and is a striker fired pistol with a SA trigger and second-strike capability in DA mode.

I'd have to test the triggers side by side, but my recollection of the CPX-2 was that it has a slightly longer trigger pull than the G2, but probably a little lighter.

The Taurus Millennium G2 PT111 trigger reset is shorter than the SCCY CPX-2 and one thing I forgot to say in my review is that the Millennium G2 trigger does reset with a click that you can hear and feel.

The Taurus Millennium G2 PT111 is a bigger gun than the SCCY CPX-2, and its heavier:

Taurus Millennium G2 PT111
Caliber: 9mm
Barrel: 3.28 in
Length: 6.24 in
Height: 5.1 in
Width: 1.22 in
Weight: 22.0 oz
Capacity: 12+1 Rounds

SCCY CPX-2
Caliber: 9mm
Barrel: 3.1 in
Length: 5.7 in
Height: 4.0 in (without mag extensions)
Width: 1.0 in
Weight: 15.0 oz
Capacity: 10+1 Rounds

I think the Taurus Millennium G2 PT111 is probably closest to a Glock 26 in dimensions, as far as other compact nines:

Glock 26
Caliber: 9mm
Barrel: 3.46 in
Length: 6.29 in
Height: 4.17 in
Width: 1.18 in
Weight: 19.75 oz w/o magazine
Capacity: 10+1 Rounds

Like the SCCY, the Millennium G2 can be stuffed into a jean pocket, but I personally wouldn't call it a pocket pistol. Like the SCCY, the Taurus Millennium G2 PT111 just barely fits into the front pocket of a pair of Levis jeans. The butt of the pistol shows slightly at the top of the pocket, it is a tight fit and as you can imagine, it prints very obviously. And if someone were to put a Taurus Millennium G2 PT111 into a holster before trying to put it into a normal jeans front pocket - I don't think it would fit. I also think the Taurus Millennium G2 PT111 is too heavy to carry in a pocket, especially fully loaded.

 

[C0untZer0]

The height measurement for the CPX-2 is without the magazine while the height measurement for the Taurus Millennium G2 PT111 is with the standard magazine that comes with the gun. Probably not a fair comparison because the CPX comes with magazines that have the pinky extension. I have seen flush fit CPX mags with no extension and with the Taurus Millennium G2 PT111 it gets a little more complicated. Officially Taurus doesn't make a flush-fit mag for the Taurus Millennium G2 PT111, but there are some people who have modified magazines to fit flush.

Its probably easier to get a CPX that is actually 4.0" tall whereas the Taurus Millennium G2 PT111 is going to be 5.1" measured from the top of the rear sights to the bottom of the magazine under most circumstances unless the owner does some modifications.

 

[tmail65]

Great review!

When I got my G2 didn't have any oil in/on it!!!!

Have wondered why a lot of people talked about this.

Asked the LGS about it, he said they sell ready to shoot guns! They cleaned it!!!!

Don't know IF that's a good or bad thing.

Good thing for me, gun was ready to shoot and have not had a problem with the G2. Over 500 through it most are reloads (good gun show vendor). Got the G2 Dec 20015.

 

[C0untZer0]

There is a thread on TaurusArmed.net titled "Where is All the Oil Coming From?"

I think Taurus dips the guns in a light oil so they'll survive the journey via container ship without rusting. They're coming from Brazil and its not like these things have been melonite treated.

That is cool that your LGS cleaned it. They probably save themselves a lot of trouble by cleaning it for customers. If someone had tried to just take my gun out of the box and shoot it - it wouldn't have functioned. Its hard to believe that people would try to do that but there are people out there who just take a new gun out of the box right at the firing line at the range and when it doesn't work they're mystified, so its back to the gun store with what they think is a broken gun.

 

[kBob]

CountZero,

Great review and pictures and you may have moved me to action. The kids both handled the PT111 first generation this past week and pronounced that "OK" though they have not shot it. Any Idea as to how the grip of the Gen 2 compares to the originals?

I may be trying to trade my poor excuse for a Whitney Wolverine for a pair of these things in the near future.

-kBob

 

[ColoradoShooter77]

I bought one of these Christmas 2014 and it had very little oil on it, just a light coating. Maybe they've changed that and are shipping them dripping now, lol.

Mine has been 100% reliable, probably up to 1000 rounds by now, mostly reloads.

The trigger takes some getting used to, but its not bad, once you know where the break point is.

For $200, its a steal.

 

[edrice]

Great review. Thanks for that!

I just picked up one of these about a week ago. Didn't do as well on price but it seemed really good at the time. Got it for $239.99, which was way better than anything else I had seen at the time.

I have M&Ps (9s and 45s) and some Rugers in 9s and really like those a lot, but I became intrigued with this PT111 and so far I'm not sorry. Haven't had a chance to shoot it yet. I've had all the same situations that you mention, the oily delivery inside the bag, etc. And just from racking it with a snap cap, I've seen a couple of instances where it hasn't gone completely into battery. I watched a youtube review where the guy had two instances where it didn't go into battery with ammo, and he popped it with the heel of his hand to drive it home. I'm wondering if he had his apart and cleaned it before doing the review. I'll certainly be doing that before I take it out to shoot. Probably next week...

I've had my RCBS trigger pull scale on it (however accurate that is) and I seem to consistently get inconsistent results somewhere between 7 1/2 and 8 1/2 pounds in single action. The trigger doesn't really seem all that bad once you get used to it and sometimes I think it's easier to get used to the double action mode. When I first pulled the trigger I thought something was wrong with it, like the I had the safety on, because of that wall you mentioned. But I quickly overcame that. I'm impressed with it so far.

 

[hdwhit]

If you didn't know better it seems like a dead trigger, or a broken trigger. After that long takeup the rearward movement stops – like hitting a wall, and then quite a bit of pressure to get the trigger to break.

Actually, I didn't know better.

I took my new PT111 to the farm last weekend and when I got ready to start shooting, the trigger pulled all the way to the back and nothing seemed to happen. I stopped, cleared it, field stripped it and verified that the striker was working and the release mechanism was working and put it all back together. It was then that I realized that the effortless rearward travel was probably just setting me up for a heavy trigger pull and that's exactly what happened.

After that, it was fine. It flawlessly gobbled up all the factory ammunition I fed it. I had brought along some reloaded ammunition (starting loads about 12% below maximum since I hadn't put anything through this gun before) and apart from the ones I had loaded with HP-38, all of them were too light to cycle the gun. The loads themselves were fine as far as accuracy and pressure so the next time I take it out, it will be with loads closer to the maximum and I will be expecting good things.

Thank you for the very comprehensive review.

 

[jimbeaux82]

I've fired about 300 rds thru my G2 without a bobble. I really like the pistol and it is one of my EDC rotation pistols. Best $230 pistol on the market by far.

 

[ritepath]

I've had mine a little over a year and 1000 rounds now. I can't remember but I know it was pretty oily when I picked it up. I also don't have any idea of the wear on the slide, I just shoot it and clean it, since it's not a CZ or Sig I don't care about how it looks. That's the main reason I have it...I wanted a gun as my daily driver that stays in the car M-F when I'm in the hospital working. I carry it probably 90% of the time on my off days now.

It's accurate, it works, it's pretty well built. For 220 bucks OTD you can't go wrong.

 

[C0untZer0]

Any Idea as to how the grip of the Gen 2 compares to the originals?

Despite the gun being called Millennium G2, its actually the 4th version of the gun. I generally have had a very low opinion of Taurus firearms. The original iteration of this gun was called the Millennium PT111, and it had a lot of issues, feeding and ejection problems, cases of frame pins cracking - just what I considered par for the course Taurus lack of quality. I wasn't interested in the original Millennium PT111 at all, and I'm not intimately familiar with the details of that gun, but as far as the grip goes... it sort of reminded me of a Springfield Armory XD(m). The magazine well was flat and the magazine protruded a little bit. The latest Millennium G2 PT111 has stippling on the front and backstrap instead of the raised squares like the XD(m). Here is a side-by-side comparision:

.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

600 rounds through mine so far, it's been 100%. Ive only had it for a month or so. The plastic sights suck but I'll put some of these on it soon....
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01BMCOA46?pc_redir=T1
I've done about 500 reps drawing it from a Galco Summer special and the results are....finnish is a little weak.

 

[SSN Vet]

Despite the gun being called Millennium G2, its actually the 3rd version of the gun.

Actually, it's the 4th.

The First had a (really crappy) DAO trigger and was called the Millennium

The second had a (much improved) DAO trigger, was re-styled around the mag well and was called the Millennium Pro

The third was also called the Millennium Pro, but had a SA trigger with a DA second strike.

And now the G2 also has a SA/DA trigger, but added the flippy-do-safety-thingy (ala Glock) and the rubbery over-mold. grip.

Somewhere in there they also had a 24/7 compact model with the rubbery grippy ribs on the front strap that otherwise looked just like the Millenium Pro.

And yes, it's confusing.

FWIW, I had the second version and traded it in for the third, which has been my primary carry for years.

And yes, mine has the "horrific safety flaw"... being that if I pull the trigger and hold it back, then flip the thumb safety up, when you release the trigger, it appears that the thumb safety is engaged, but the gun will actually still fire. Until I read about how unsafe the gun was, I never noticed the problem, because I'm not a moron who attempts to engage the thumb safety while holding the trigger back.

I contacted Taurus, thinking I might score a brandy new G2 out of the deal, and they sent me a shipping label to return the gun for a "safety inspection" and repair, but I never sent it in, as I'm afraid they'll do something to screw up a gun that otherwise runs perfectly.

 

[stchman]

I had a PT111 G2 and it was a good gun. I ended up trading it and a G21 for an FNP 45, but the G2 is a good gun.

For its price point, it makes the POS pot metal Saturday Night Special guns irrelevant. For a car or truck gun it would be a good choice.

 

[franco45]

I've got one too. I couldn't pass it up for the price I paid. I think it was about $225 out the door. Mine has been 100% since I got it.