Revolver or Auto

Revolver or Auto for newbie carry

  • Revolver

    Votes: 196 65.6%

  • Semi Auto

    Votes: 103 34.4%
  • Total voters
    299
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Revolvers - not because they're simpler (jeez, if you can't figure a Glock or a P229 RDAK out, you're not even going to know how to open a cylinder).

Revolvers because they're far less finicky about ammunition and a little more forgiving of bad form and technique. You can also go much lower recoil with almost any revolver out there. A .44 Special-stuffed 629 with an underlug barrel is a tad expensive, but can be hammered all day long.
 
Defensory notes truly - his unused previous to the encounter Kimber 1911 outshot three .357 Magnums.

'Course, the Kimber has a lighter trigger (faster) and a far lower bore axis (more accurate).

But we're talking locked and cocked Condition One versus double action only revolver shooting.

There's enough people out there who wouldn't feel good about locked and cocked, enough for Para Ordnance to develop the LDA and everyone ELSE making DA autos.
 
Posted by TestPilot:
I believe "learning with a revolver to move up to a self loader" being a proper path is a myth.

There's nothing about proper shooting that can be learned with a revolver that cannot be learned with a self loader. If the shooter wants to shoot a self loader, just starting with a self loader will save time and money.

And, there's nothing about a self loader that makes me feel as if it's a "higher level" that requires an intermediate training gun before shooting one.
Click to expand...

Couldn't have said it better myself!

If you spend a lot of time learning on a revolver with a typical long, 8 to 9 lb. double action trigger pull---your "muscle memory" will make it more difficult to adapt later to the noticeably lighter and shorter trigger pull of a 1911, for instance. Reloading etc. is also a completely different ballgame with a semi-auto.

You will have picked up "habits" particular to the revolver, which means you will have to work harder and longer to break yourself of those habits when you attempt to learn with and master a semi-auto.

Learn with the same type of handgun that you intend to carry and use on a regular basis, whether it be semi-auto or revolver.
 
Posted by DougDubya:
Revolvers - not because they're simpler (jeez, if you can't figure a Glock or a P229 RDAK out, you're not even going to know how to open a cylinder).

Revolvers because they're far less finicky about ammunition and a little more forgiving of bad form and technique. You can also go much lower recoil with almost any revolver out there. A .44 Special-stuffed 629 with an underlug barrel is a tad expensive, but can be hammered all day long.
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I'm not trying to pick at you or anything, Doug, and you certainly don't have to take my word for it if you don't want to.

But I'm quite certain that if you ask some of the "old-timers" you know and trust here at THR, you'll find that as a GENERAL RULE, semi-autos have LESS recoil than revolvers. That's because the slide on the autoloader absorbs a noticeable amount of the recoil.

I believe you'll also find that the long 8 to 9 lb. double action trigger pull on a revolver is actually LESS forgiving than the trigger pull on most semi-autos, especially single actions.

I've also found that modern (1970's and newer) major brand semi-autos are NOT that finicky with major brand factory ammo such as Federal, Remington, Winchester etc.---including most hollow points.

If you want to use hollow points or handloads/reloads, you should of course abide by manufacturer recommendations, and experiment with different rounds if necessary.

Also, again not trying to nitpick, but I believe you'll find the correct terminology for 1911 "condition one" is "cocked and locked"---NOT "locked and cocked". ;)
 
Defensory says;

You have confused an anecdote with anecdotal evidence.
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The expression anecdotal evidence has two quite distinct meanings.

(1) Evidence in the form of an anecdote or hearsay is called anecdotal if there is doubt about its veracity: the evidence itself is considered untrustworthy or untrue.

(2) Evidence which may itself be true and verifiable is used to deduce a conclusion which does not follow from it, usually by generalizing from an insufficient amount of evidence.

I certainly hope your shooting skills are better than your knowledge of the English language.
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I am not worried about about either.
 
Ahh, the eternal ultimately unanswerable question. :)

There are many experienced people on many gun forums that have both revolvers and semi-autos. Even they can't decide..


Get a gun safe first. You're headed down the slippery slope of gun ownership...
 
Defensory - wasn't meaning to pick.

I supported your assessment that a 1911 was faster and more accurate than a DA revolver too.

But revolvers appeal to my soul, and they work well enough. I wouldn't mind if the Mateba barrel setup, which places the bore axis in a 1911 position, became more popular to address certain recoil issues.

As for recoil - easiest way to get a .357 Magnum's recoil controlled is to slip in a cylinder of .38 Specials. Try putting softball .45 ammo into a 1911, and you end up racking the slide unless you change out the springs.

As for the cocked and locked mix-up, I'm halfway through a novel due on the 30th. I'm using up my syntax for my paid job, dude.
 
This thread may be getting old for some...but not me, keep it going guys

This thread has so much information, wisdom perhap(?) and insight some of which I have overlooked or forgotten.

While the original topic is, for me moot, all I have now are revolvers, I still follow this thread. I ended a 20-year love affair with the 1911 three months ago due to my hip's growing reluctance to pick up brass:)

This question has intrigued and will always intrigue many handgun lovers, newbie or otherwise.
 
Posted by easyg:
I have found that newbies usually shoot auto-loaders much better than they shoot revolvers.
Click to expand...

As a general rule, I agree.

At the most recent concealed carry course at my range, not one semi-auto shooter failed to qualify. Multiple revolver shooters failed to qualify, even though they only made up about 20% of the students.

The long, heavy 8 to 9 pound trigger pull of the revolvers was the culprit in virtually every case.

One guy with a .357 Magnum failed to qualify, and tried to claim that there was something wrong with his gun, which just happened to be his own personal weapon.

One of the intructors picked up the weapon and fired a shot at the target, making an almost perfect hit in the center of the bullseye. He set down the weapon and remarked "Nothing wrong with the gun." :D
 
Posted by DougDubya:
But revolvers appeal to my soul, and they work well enough. I wouldn't mind if the Mateba barrel setup, which places the bore axis in a 1911 position, became more popular to address certain recoil issues.
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I don't have a problem with the fact that some people prefer revolvers. I've owned a few myself over the years. More power to you, Doug. :)

The revolver owners I have a problem with (and I'm NOT claiming that YOU personally think like this), are the ones who make claims like:

1. "All I need is my revolver and six rounds, and I can handle ANY situation that a high capacity semi-auto can."

2. "Revolvers never fail to fire or jam. Six fer sure!"

3. "Semi-autos are unreliable jam-o-matics."

4. "Semi-autos are too complicated."

5. "Semi-auto advocates are a bunch of Rambos."

6. "Semi-auto advocates are paranoid."

As for recoil - easiest way to get a .357 Magnum's recoil controlled is to slip in a cylinder of .38 Specials.
Click to expand...

Isn't that a significant compromise in a critical self-defense situation, Doug? The .357 was designed primarily for law enforcement work and personal self-defense. Many people buy it precisely because it is so powerful, but a significant percentage find that the cartridge is just too much for them to handle.

If you have to "downsize" to a .38 in order to be able to handle the recoil, barrel rise, muzzle blast and muzzle flash---IMHO you're defeating the purpose of purchasing a .357 in the first place. ;)
 
I own...eh...I don't even want to think about it...wheelguns and only three autoloaders. I learned to shoot with a very rare Navy stamped Victory model S&W .38 special and a ruger single six. I'm somewhat partial to revolvers, mainly because they have never failed me due to anything other than bad ammunition(and one with a weak mainspring, easy fix). They CAN fail, but more often than not, it's defective user syndrome or bad ammunition.

Generally speaking, revolvers have a better trigger in the single action mode than most autoloaders. With that said, the DA trigger on a lot of autoloaders is lighter/better than a lot of wheelguns. From those that I've measured, DA pull on a revolver is usually in the 13-14 pound range from the factory. Most autoloaders are in the 10 or so pound range double action. Either one can be lightened significantly with a good action job.

Wheelguns are not dependent upon a seperate feeding device, which if lost or damaged, renders the gun nothing more than a self ejecting and awkward single shot. Wheelguns also aren't dependent upon a firm grip for proper function. They don't require extensive practice for the multiple failure correction drills that absolutely need to be automatic when using an autoloader. They're as simple as aim gun, pull trigger, go bang. Some autoloaders have this type of simplicity, until they fail to function, at which point we're back to failure correction routines. With a revolver, you just pull the trigger again. If it doesn't fire, reload.

The usual complaints with revolvers is that they have limited capacity and are slow to load. Well...it seems to me that limited capacity means you have more incentive to actually hit the target, which means more practice actually shooting the gun----and "slow to reload" means you haven't practiced loading enough. Have the gun converted for use with moon clips and practice loading, a lot. One solid hit is worth a lot more than 15 misses.

Revolvers are usually more flexible in terms of the size of the grip area. If the size/shape doesn't suit you, a single screw stands between you and a different size/shape of grip.

Make sure it fits your hand
Shoot what you carry
Carry what you shoot
Practice no matter what you decide on


Edit-- I carry a Ruger SP101 in .357 magnum. Occasionally I carry a S&W M66, also in .357 magnum. On very rare occasions, I carry a Springfield Micro Compact in .45 ACP.
 
Well...it seems to me that limited capacity means you have more incentive to actually hit the target,
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Except that in case after case the ability to hit the target is shown to be greatly reduced in a high-stress situation. Even well trained people can lose some percentage of their skills when the poop hits the ventilation.

The incetive may he higher to hit with only 6, but the price of missing is signifigantly higher with missing one with a revolver.

Obviously none of us *want* to miss any shots in a SD situation, however, if you think it's going to be the same as a day at the range I'd sumit you are going to miss far more than you'll hit in a real life scenario.
 
Nah, Defensory. The police had developed the "perfect" .38 Special load in the 70's with the "FBI load" (or Chicago Load, or just the plain old 158-grain Semi-Wadcutter Hollowpoint). Cops and feds across the country didn't worry about its effectiveness. They just wanted more shots and better triggers.

Though, all things considered, I'd rather have a Beretta 92. Must... resist... S&W Night Guards! 'Course, a Scanadium framed Model 59 or Model 45 Night Guard gets me thinking.
 
Except that in case after case the ability to hit the target is shown to be greatly reduced in a high-stress situation. Even well trained people can lose some percentage of their skills when the poop hits the ventilation.

The incetive may he higher to hit with only 6, but the price of missing is signifigantly higher with missing one with a revolver.

Obviously none of us *want* to miss any shots in a SD situation, however, if you think it's going to be the same as a day at the range I'd sumit you are going to miss far more than you'll hit in a real life scenario.
Click to expand...

Nice how you ignored the last part of that sentence.
 
No one has ever gone wrong with a revolver. You can always upgrade later. I've carried a revolver over 60% of the time and I love it. It's more comfortable, easier to operate and it will last for generations. Nothing wrong with autos but I find myself carring .357 most days and then glock 27 in .40 cal most other days with a few days of xd 45 in .45acp to round off the days i'm with my wife.
 
As far as recommendations go, we should all make them with a bit of caution if we do not know all the specifics, but here's my two cents worth.

If by newbie you mean new to firearms in general there are a lot of things to consider before coming to the conclusion that you are at the point to choose what handgun will end up being best for you. You must first learn firearms safety to the point that it becomes second nature. You must then learn proper shooting technique and achieve a basic level of marksmanship (granted this will change somewhat depending on what type of weapon but you can learn the sight acquisition, trigger control, posture, follow up on any handgun). You should also invest in a SD class and get the idea about what is legal for you and what to avoid.

Beginning to "carry' before these minimums can be a formula for disaster. Invest in a good quality (not expensive) revolver to keep the variables to a minimum and it should retain enough resale value for you to change whan you have with much practice mastered the learning curve. You can then make a much more informed decision and do so more effectively and safer.

I would say you are at least 1,000 rounds away from deciding on a "carry gun". These are my thoughts and are not intended to offend anyone.
 
I like both and you will most likely have both at some point.
Go shoot them and make a decision, then second quess yourself and go buy the other one. Thats how you end up with both.
 
When it comes down to it, auto vs. revolver probably doesn't matter for a CCW'er - until you have a failure and have to deal with it.

Sure, it IS possible for a revolver to jam up and be unusable, but it's much MUCH more rare, ESPECIALLY when you're talking about small semi-auto's which can be finicky.

Someone who doesn't have experience with autos will not have the natural inclination to drop the mag, rack the slide to clear malfunction, grab new mag, insert, rack slide bang bang bang. They also have to have the new mag handy and easily accessible or their scrounging on the ground for the mag they just dropped.

If you want to look at 'most encounters', the reload is a secondary issue because in 'most encounters' you'll be reloading after you put the other guy on the ground, or he ran away, or you ran away. Malfunctions in small auto's could happen in those key first couple of shots where you need everything to go perfectly.

Someone will come along with an example of a small semiauto that they own that has been FLAWLESS across thousands of rounds of range time, and i recognize that there are reliable compact semiautos - i own a 3913LS that is a beautiful gun and i'd trust my life to it - but if i had the choice to pull one or the other in a split second, i'd go for the 642 EVERY time.

Things that don't normally bother you at the range will bother you when the SHTF, like accidentally dropping the magazine because you gripped it badly on the draw and your hand pushed the mag release button... accidentally forgetting to flip off the safety (if your gun has one) or getting a crappy grip and causing a malfunction/failure to feed/extract that you never would have seen at the range with a normal grip. Revolvers don't suffer in the same way as semi-autos, and they can be reliable fired from inside a pocket where a semi would jam up on clothe after the first shot or 2. It is totally true that with training you can be plenty quick at clearing a malfunction in an auto...but a new shooter will not have that training and may or may not take it upon themselves to get it. If i knew the person in question, i might recommend a small semiauto for them; but without knowledge of the person directly, i'd have a hard time recommending one over a small revolver.
 
Posted by DougDubya:
Nah, Defensory. The police had developed the "perfect" .38 Special load in the 70's with the "FBI load" (or Chicago Load, or just the plain old 158-grain Semi-Wadcutter Hollowpoint). Cops and feds across the country didn't worry about its effectiveness. They just wanted more shots and better triggers.
Click to expand...

The same "perfect" .38 Special load that didn't get the job done during the infamous FBI Miami Shootout of 1986. Revolvers were still the official primary duty issue weapon of the FBI at that point in time. After the shootout, the FBI promptly retired the revolver as an issue sidearm.

Almost immediately after the shootout, a multitude of police and sheriff's departments across the country rapidly began following suit. Today, a major or medium size city/county law enforcement agency that issues revolvers is uncommon. Even many small agencies have made and continue to make the switch to semi-autos.

The revolver has been virtually extinct as both a law enforcement and military sidearm in every single country in Europe, for several decades now.

21st century semi-autos are extremely reliable, and offer firepower advantages that a revolver cannot match.

It's also important to note that in the case of the FBI and the vast majority of law enforcement agencies that have adopted semis, that the demand for them originated from the rank-and-file (RAF) officers and the police unions/patrolmen's associations that actively represent the RAF.

The agents and officers in the street DEMANDED semi-autos, because their low capacity, slow reloading revolvers were simply no match for gangbangers and other criminals packing semi-auto weapons.

Not surprisingly, it was ultra-liberals like former New York City mayor David Dinkins and his liberal crony police commissioner, who fought tooth, fang and claw to deny NYPD the right to carry semi-autos in the early 90's.

The same was true in many other cities around the country---liberal mayors and police commissioners repeatedly sought to deny RAF officers the right to carry semi-autos, even though they were frequently being outgunned in shooting situations by criminals with semi-autos.
 
Revolver or auto? The only legitimate answer I can come up with is- whatever floats your boat.

It's a matter of personal preference. I usually carry a revolver, but don't hesitate in switching to an auto now and then. As far as what's best for a new shooter, only practice will tell. There's not a nickels worth of difference to me. Accuracy and performance have been almost identical.

I will say that the retired lady who took the ccdw qualification next to my position shot tighter groups than I did. She was using a .38 snubbie, while I used a M&P 9mm semi. That lady could shoot, blue hair and all!
 
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