Rifle on the high seas

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I think most private yachts-folk protect themselves through networking via radio with others, keeping an ear out for what's going on, where, and avoiding known trouble spots.

Made me think of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAotPh9M6aU

S/V Elusive in Pacific, just North of Equator used the Maritime Mobile Service Network on 14.3 MHz (20 Meter band) to relay to the Coast Guard that a vessel was shadowing them.

(It's a long audio recording-if you're a ham radio operator you might like it, otherwise, I dunno.)

This was recorded by a guy in New Hampshire, so that gives you an idea of the range capabilities-even from a 100 watt radio on a sailboat.

On a side note, the MMSN network control station came up with some good makeshift ideas to act as a deterrent. (Still, that Mossberg Mariner would feel pretty good throughout this incident.)
 
NFA will not apply on open international waters.

That's not entirely accurate. From here:

http://www.uscg.mil/international/affairs/publications/mmscode/english/chap3.htm

Two notes are warranted here...encompasses more than United States territorial waters; it also extends to those waters where the United States, pursuant to an agreement with a foreign government, has been authorized to take law enforcement action involving United States or foreign vessels...

The second point is that the Coast Guard may go aboard any United States vessel at any time, anywhere to conduct a documentation and safety inspection. A search of a U.S. vessel beyond this type of inspection is subject to limitations under the United States Constitution. If a search extends beyond this narrowly defined scope, a court may be asked to evaluate the legality of the search by balancing the individual’s right to privacy in the specific circumstances of the search against society’s interest in detecting criminal conduct."

The USCG has jurisdiction over all United States vessels, wherever they are. If they ask you for a Form 1/ Form 4, you better believe that you need it.
 
Run to Bahamas on occasion ...

Someone mentioned stainless gun site scout...pretty much anything stainless. That said, keep it below decks wrapped and oiled in a case and most anything will work. I bring a Mini 14 stainless and a pistol.

Word of warning - know the laws and declare when clearing. We have to account for all ammo onboard plus weapon. Sometimes they check, sometimes not - mostly not. If boarded and found you just lost the boat plus some legal fees. Do not even think about Mexico, and some of the other Latin American countries.

My dad has been cruising since Mid 90s - Bristol - and made the call to stop at Turks and Caicos years ago, like most cruisers we know. I run a center Console over and as long as legal no problems other than making sure no one steals boat. Fair winds!
 
+1

The Lee-Enfield is the most effective fighting bolt gun ever made IMHO. Long in the tooth? Hardly. More like LONG IN THE FANGS!!!!!!!!!!!! :D

For corrosion resistance, there are synthetic stocks available and you can either duracoat the metal or have it Robar'd.
 
I've met Herb Smith (circumnavigated the world on his wooden schooner Appledore) and done a day cruise on his newest sloop East Wind.

Herb is ex Coast Guard and is a very nice man. I asked him if piracy was a concern and he said it is a very serious concern... Not so much in 1978 when he first sailed around the world, but very, very much so now.

Herb told me that he sailed with a bolt action rifle chambered in .30-06.

This made perfect sense, as it is a "non-military" sporting rifle that still has long legs. And as I'm sure the OP knows, long legs are important at sea.

I think a stainless Remington Marine Magnum and a stainless Remington XCR in .30-06 would be a good combo.

The Irish and the Brits may very well consider an Enfield as a "military rifle" and give you grief.
 
Thank for all input thus far.

I'm not sailing to Africa. They have real "pirates" there; motherships, multiple skiffs, auto-AKs. I'm sailing to the Carribean and Central America. There one (rarely) gets small bands of poorly equipped criminals and opportunistic fishermen. The worst case scenario is freelancing law enforcement or military. There is no religion involved, no thoughts of kidnap and ransom, just the desire for some easy looting and possibly raping. Where I'm going, pirates are more like muggers on small craft or swimming. Weapons are often knives or machetes, sometimes a rusty old shotgun or pistol. Favored techniques are approaching by stealth at night, approaching as enterprising fishermen looking to sell fresh seafood by day (or just asking for some drinking water). More often than not, the "enterprising fishermen" are just that. It pays to be careful though.

Pirates in Somalia, for instance, are popular; there is no tourism, and poverty is so crushing, anything to bring money into their communities is considered "cool". In Caribbean, Central America etc., cruisers spend LOTS of money at legitimate businesses. Piracy is very bad for these businesses. There are examples of vigilante justice in these areas, as the local businessmen "take out the trash".

The maritime shotgun goes without saying. I'm intrigued by the shotgun-only theory, but I confess my experience has been mainly with NATO rifles. I understand that an unrifled shotgun will throw slugs poorly, while a rifled one spreads buckshot too wide. Hitting close to target from a moving boat is challenging, no question. At least mine is a catamaran, more steady. A rifle holds appeal in that ammo doesn't weigh quite so much. My wife has never learned the art of packing light ;-)

As a US flagged vessel, I'm subject to US laws while in US or international waters. I don't get a free pass on the firearms I have, and can be inspected by USCG at any time. When approaching a foreign port, while still in international waters, one radios the port and informs port authority of a great many things generally. At this time one mentions that the boat is armed, and learns how will this be handled. If port authority says "no weapons!", try your luck at the next port.

Port authority tells you what to do: generally, they ask the nature of the weapons on board. In the case of normal non-semiautomatic shotguns, and sometimes hunting rifles, they are often happy to let you keep them in your onboard safe. They will slap a customs seal on your safe, to see if you were monkeying around with your weapons, inspected on departure. That's it. Only one country I'm aware of takes offense at carrying weapons in their waters prior to clearing in.

Mexico is a wretched place. Any weapon, even a single round of ammunition, within 7 miles of shore equals big prison time. No excuses, no anything unless you have a prior letter from the Mexican embassy giving you permission. I guess only the government/cartels should be armed. Venezuela is the most dangerous place in the area, with more of the freelancing police and military types there. The definitive site for piracy reports is http://www.noonsite.com/General/Piracy . Unfortunately it is often unreported, or denied by local officials.

The Lee-Enfield is a fine weapon, and while it may be considered outdated by modern standards, it is by definition a military rifle.

In regards to marksmanship at sea, it is dicey. High-magnification scopes are essentially useless on a small boat. ACOGs and similar are not, just used as a reflex sight up until one can decide to change focus for an instant. Green laser works, better than red, because it lets you "walk" into the target and is more visible at longer range. A powerful rifle will probably through-and-through a small boat. Pursuers in a boat are lined up along the narrow hull, with the engine. Hitting a small boat at range is very difficult but can have devastating effects. Plus, one must be certain of their intent: firing warning shots towards the center of mass is criminal. Remember that these are not religious warriors or anything, just scumbags looking for an easy score. While the odds of a gun battle at sea are so small, I would just hate to have somebody able to reach out and touch me, while I'm trying to lob slugs back at them, with a slow reload and limited capacity.

There are some nice places out there: good weather, less expensive, friendly people. Probably five times as many drivers are killed by carjackers in the US every year, as cruising sailors are killed around the world by criminals. Nobody wants to be a statistic though. Vigilance is a way of life.

Fair winds!
 
Don't forget to register all firearms and foreign made accessories that you may take with your on DHS for 4455 or 4457. This will serve as your entry when you arrive back in the United States. Make several photo copies of the original as in most cases they can be used if the original was lost. I would not take anything that you cannot afford to loose overboard either. Decades ago we had an American citizen bring back his sailboat with 16 guns (all American made) that were given to him by his Dad. Customs immediately seized all of them and they ran all the numbers thru their database and while none turned up as being stolen it still took me almost 6 months to get his guns back.
 
I understand that an unrifled shotgun will throw slugs poorly,
This needs clarification.

A smooth-bore shotgun will shoot the right kind of slugs (traditional "Foster" type slugs, primarily) accurately enough for defensive use out to about 100 yards. Being able to shoot any firearm accurately beyond 100 yards from a boat in even very calm seas is probably overly optimistic.

And a 1 oz. slug does a pretty phenomenal amount of damage to materiel downrange, which can be pretty helpful if punching big holes through hulls, cabins, fuel tanks, outboard motors, etc. might be part of your strategy to convince someone to leave you alone.

while a rifled one spreads buckshot too wide.
Indeed. While a rifled shotgun barrel -- WHEN SHOOTING SABOTED SLUGS -- is quite accurate, this is predominately a hunting tool. Not very useful for close-range defense of your boat.
 
The maritime shotgun goes without saying. I'm intrigued by the shotgun-only theory, but I confess my experience has been mainly with NATO rifles. I understand that an unrifled shotgun will throw slugs poorly, while a rifled one spreads buckshot too wide.

I suggest you take a smoothbore shotgun and some foster slugs to a range. That combination has been effectively taking deer at 50-60 yards for decades. Some push that range out to 100 yards.

Considering the pitching and rolling of the deck on a boat I would favor a shotgun with buckshot over a rifle or shotgun with slugs.
 
I'm not a sailor so I have to ask: What about modifying the bottom of the hull so that when outside the port a weapon could be secured to the bottom of the hull? Just install some attachment points for a waterproof gun case. I have done something similar on pick-up trucks. Do underwater inspections of the bottom of the hull commonly occur? Leaving a gun attached to an anchored buoy even with GPS location recorded seems a little risky.
 
Driftertank said:
I would suggest a bolt-action in .308 (7.62×51), synthetic stocked stainless, and perhaps then cera-koted or otherwise treated with an inert, salt-resistant coating. And a plain and unassuming scope in the 3-9 range. Hunting rifles probably wouldn't raise too many eyebrows in any country where sport-hunting is legal for non-residents. I know Howas have kits available with "high capacity" magazines. And several aftermarket suppliers offer high-cap DBM kits for Remington 700 SA.

This would be my #1 choice by far. A well thought out configuration, Driftertank.
 
I'm not a sailor so I have to ask: What about modifying the bottom of the hull so that when outside the port a weapon could be secured to the bottom of the hull? Just install some attachment points for a waterproof gun case. I have done something similar on pick-up trucks. Do underwater inspections of the bottom of the hull commonly occur? Leaving a gun attached to an anchored buoy even with GPS location recorded seems a little risky.
The risk of losing a gun is much lower concern to me then the risk of spending decades in a 3rd world jail for a weapons charge.
 
Had a good laugh reading the posters who suggested doing a "gps drop" of a weapons package (to be recovered later...). I work on the water, and have for almost 20 years since I retired from police work. I use a gps daily (and used to teach a brief orientation course for those using handhelds through my local West Marine store...). In short while your gps is a pretty good piece of machinery - finding a small package that's been dropped/anchored is one heckuva lot easier said than done... I routinely create the occasional F.A.D. in one shallow spot or other (FAD - fish attracting device) to be able to put my anglers on something special in relatively shallow water... Wish I had a nickel for every one that was so difficult to find that I darned nearly gave up on it... and I won't even mention the ones that I set very carefully --and a week or two later were just gone.... Things found at sea are pretty much fair game as far as most are concerned..

Along with those that think you can attach something under your hull (gee... wonder how many dope smugglers down here in paradise thought that was a good idea...) are the folks that think they'll get the slightest break if their weapons aren't properly registered, even down to the last individual bullet..... In short if you even think of not abiding by other country's weapons laws then I strongly suggest you buy return tickets for any passengers aboard -because after you're taken in to custody the next item on the agenda will be the seizure of your vessel.... If your passengers aren't arrested as well it will be nice if they have the means to leave the country without difficulty....

Aren't boats fun?
 
My thoughts on this are entirely with lemaymiami.

Of the accounts I've read, the only guy who ended up with a firearm, temporarily, on board bought it surreptitiously in a coastal African town, and was so conflicted about whether the pirates or the authorities were a bigger risk, he threw it overboard before entering the next port.

Would you get caught with a gun in New Jersey? No?

Most other places on the globe should scare you MUCH worse in regards to possession of a firearm, especially as an American foreigner.
 
Here's a brief real life story (that didn't involve guns at all but should give you a good look at how things go outside the good old USA). Some years ago my dentist, a fanatic fisherman - like me, was snatched up in the Bahamas with more than the legal limit (Bahamian law) of fish on the way back to the States... On our side of the pond the applicable law would be the Lacey Act (which prohibits taking fish, etc. in vioation of another country's laws and bringing the produce into our country) which would be a problem over here if found... Over there he was arrested, his vessel seized (thirty years ago I'd value it over $100,000... ), and he was tossed in the local lock-up. He described it as having a dirt floor and the only consideration he was given was the ability to pay a local kid to bring him something to eat.... The fine was over $50,000, he never got his boat back, and a few days in the can pretty much cured him of fishing in the Bahamas. All of this was years ago in the middle of a wave of big money drug running out of that same area....

Can you even imagine what a gun violation might have caused? As a kid I was an Army brat and fortunate enough to live in four different countries - all very civilized, yet none of them afford the rights to their citizens that we enjoy. If I were intending to break their firearms laws, whatever they were.... I'd want a ton of money, and lawyers standing by -even then I'd also have to be a lot younger than I am now. When you're young and dumb a bit of adventure sounds like a good idea (and I'll bet a lot of vets can remember that feeling - before they ended up in bad places where their lives weren't worth much at all...).
 
I was going to post my firearm choice but now I have to concur with the no firearm policy. I lived in a country in N Africa for 2 years. The result of a conviction for having any firearm was 10 years in prison. The prisons were not anything like ours.

One of the reasons I don't travel in Mexico anymore is the gov't is corrupt and Americans are targets. If you get charged down there you might as well forget about reading your mail for awhile.
 
Had a good laugh reading the posters who suggested doing a "gps drop" of a weapons package (to be recovered later...). I work on the water, and have for almost 20 years since I retired from police work. I use a gps daily (and used to teach a brief orientation course for those using handhelds through my local West Marine store...). In short while your gps is a pretty good piece of machinery - finding a small package that's been dropped/anchored is one heckuva lot easier said than done... I routinely create the occasional F.A.D. in one shallow spot or other (FAD - fish attracting device) to be able to put my anglers on something special in relatively shallow water... Wish I had a nickel for every one that was so difficult to find that I darned nearly gave up on it... and I won't even mention the ones that I set very carefully --and a week or two later were just gone.... Things found at sea are pretty much fair game as far as most are concerned..

Well, retrieving packages of drugs at sea is one of the preferred methods of smuggling right now. Fishing vessels pull a "torpedo" under the service filled with cocaine while they travel along fishing as normal. If they spot a law enforcement vessel, they cut the torpedo loose and continue on. They then circle back to get it after they are boarded and inspected or another fishing boat picks it up and continues. In a typical crossing the torpedo is cut loose and picked up multiple times. I'm sure the retrieval system is more complicated than a simple GPS but it can be done.

That said, just carry a legal firearm and stay out of ports that don't allow them.
 
I'm sure the retrieval system is more complicated than a simple GPS but it can be done.

If you could tell us what that system might be your story would be a little more believable.

I've worked with gps/sonar units and they could see your torpedo if you could find it. In an hour your torpedo is going to drift unless you anchor it. If you anchor it and return to your drop the maritime authority is going to see that using satellite or shore radar. So every time you go back to pick it up you will have to drop it again because they're coming back. As soon as they suspect a drop they're going to start looking for it because they will have the same or better gps/sonar that you do.

Just how long are you going to play this game? They're paid by the month and looking for drugs and firearms. You dropped a $500 rifle and if they find it you're going to jail. Firearms are a pretty big deal in some countries, drugs maybe not. Lots of illegal drugs being used on the street where I was, never saw a firearm in civilian hands.
 
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Narco torpedos are well documented, the US found the first one in 2005. I first heard about them from a documentary about the switch from speedboats to semi-submersible to full fledged diesel electric subs and towed torpedoes. The location system is an adaptation of the systems used by ocean fisherman to find nets and other gear they set in the ocean.

Yes, you could find a submerged object with sonar - if you know where to look. Drug authorities don't have the resources to follow every fishing boat with sonar equipped boats looking for drugs. The narcos hide among the thousands of legitimate fishermen. Likewise, authorities in the Caribbean don't have the resources to check out every place that a pleasure boat stops.

This will get you started if you are interested: http://smallwarsjournal.com/jrnl/ar...lying-advanced-technologies-to-drug-smuggling
 
I am a Coast Guard vet of 26 years most of my time was operating offshore. My choice weapon was and still is a 12ga pump gun. During my 3 Viet Nam tours I carried a M-2 carbine, a M1A1 tommy,a M16 and an Winchester Model 12 ,which was best small boat gun ever. Later in the mid 70s we switched to the Remington 870, I never felt undergunned.
 
To put it mildly - for those intending to keep up with the latest trends in dope-running..... that old myth about the dead baby, loaded up with bad stuff.... well today it would have to be a dead whale (and even that doesn't provide a view of just how much is coming in...).

Instead of the glamorous "go-fast boats" then the solo piloted small airplanes, then the submarines (or torpedoes, if that's the latest item in popular media...) the reality is far worse from what I've heard. If you take the government's word on seizures each year of the various kinds of dope being smuggled (as opposed to created in-country like meth...) then take whatever they figure it is, as a starting point. The accepted wisdom in contraband interdiction is that no matter how good your enforcement is - the best you'll ever do is stop maybe 10% of what's actually coming in (if you're lucky and work hard...). Given that circumstance -then take whatever the government's actual figures for seizures are and multiply that by 10 to get a pretty realistic view of the problem... Wish it weren't so, since I was in law enforcement for a career (and much of it was down here in paradise during the "cocaine wars"...).

Put another way... when I started as a young cop the Miami Herald listed the going price for first sale of white powder in Miami as $63,000 per kilo - and no one saw the goods until the money had been verified (not a trusting bunch, those guys....). That was 1974... when I left 22 years later the going price was 16,000 per key and they'd front the goods with payment later.... I pretty much figured we'd lost that particular war long ago.

Whether it's "torpedoes" or something even more clever (and efficient since these guys are actually businessmen of a sort...) the stuff will continue to pour in as long as enough folks are willing to pay for it (at least in money....). Wish it weren't so....
 
Towed torpedoes? Limpet attachments? Drops with GPS? C'mon you guys are smarter than that - sounds like too many mission impossible movies. We are boaters, fishermen, cruisers - I've been running from Turks and Caicos to West End since 1980. Yes protect yourself, but within the law and realize you are in someone else's country - they don't play nice when you break their laws. Know the law and follow it.

Regarding choice, yeah the 870 isn't bad either. I just like and know my mini 14.

Forget about it - haven't been over in a 2 years and rules changed. Shotgun and handgun only, no rifles.
 
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The location system is an adaptation of the systems used by ocean fisherman to find nets and other gear they set in the ocean.

OK, I see how this would work. You're talking about acoustic transmitters or "pingers" as they are called in the business. The same technology they use to recover black boxes from aircraft that crash in the ocean. Divers seem to be using them now. Dive Tracker $900.

Learned something here. ;)
 
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