stainless steel semi-auto rifles

[roscoe]

Having read about a group of brigands that has been boarding sailboats and killing all aboard (in the waters of Brazil), my step father is thinking of getting a semi-auto rifle to complement a stainless shotgun and revolver for his boat. Naturally, the salt water and moisture generally are factors, so he wants a stainless rifle. I am aware of only the Ruger Mini 14/30 but was wondering whether anybody knew of other stainless autoloaders.

Apparently one sailor tried to defend himself, but his autoloader jammed, and all aboard were killed. I imagine a marine environment is pretty rough on rifles and might cause reliability issues, so he has raised reliability as perhaps the primary concern.

If anybody has ideas, I would love to hear them.

 

[KaceCoyote]

I know the SU-16 is mostly polymer and I -think- its a stainless barrel. The website doesnt say however. I'd say a .223 would do a number on a boat hull dont you?

 

[natedog]

A chrome AK wit da switch.

No, seriously, a Mini-14 should do fine. You're not going to be shooting over long distances from a boat, anyways. An AK would work, just keep it dry.

 

[Badger Arms]

An AK-47 soaked in a good quality synthetic will probably be more reliable than anything else out there. Chrome bore, chrome gas piston, it'll last longer than a stainless Mini-14. Stainless steel is not as corrosion resistant as chorme plated steel. It'd probably be cheapest to get an AK, take it to a gunsmith who does chroming, and have the entire thing chrome plated. It'll look nifty and should last forever.

Again, you do know that Stainless Steel still rusts, don't you? Especially Ruger Stainless. Up here where people use the heck out of their guns, most used stainless guns I see have some level of rust, often pitting under the stocks. Pitty that many think because the gun is silvery, it isn't going to rust.

 

[gaven]

go with the A.k. even if it does start to rust up he can knock the bolt open
with a winch handle to chamber it and it should fire fine after that

 

[Redlg155]

You might also want to consider some of the coatings that are resistant to salt spray, such as Gun-Kote.


Good Shooting
Red

 

[Black Snowman]

A stainless barreled AR with a stainless or chromed carrier might do the trick as well. The things that aren't stainless are coated aluminum which is pretty damn corrosion resistant. Not positive what the gas tubes are made of . . .
But anything stored oiled and protected (like in a thin trashbag that can be easily ripped open) would do the trick so I'd be more likely to shop by reliabiliy. Read AK, FAL, SKS, M1, AR, etc . . .

 

[Mulliga]

What do the brigands use? I know parts of Brazil are pretty lawless, so you might be up against a lot of firepower - might be best to pack something with a bit more range than a standard AK. Perhaps get a FAL, than an AK, than a shotgun and revolver?

 

[MrMurphy]

I'd find a rifle you're comfortable with and get it coated. Roguard, Fit 4 Duty, Gun Kote, etc..... they're all far more durable against salt spray than stainless.

 

[moorerwc]

I think DSA offers nice FAL clones with SS receivers and barrels. They also offer one of the corrosion resistant spray and bake finishes on their firearms. Perhaps you would want both, depending on what you think conditions would be.

-Chad

 

[Dave Markowitz]

I concur with the other posts about getting a rifle and then coating it with a salt spray-resistant finish like Gun-Kote or NP3. However, if your dad really wants stainless but doesn't mind a manually operated rifle, Rossi makes their Winchester 1892 clone in stainless. In .357, .44 Mag, or .45 Colt this would make a formidable weapon, IMO.

I'd probably coat the wood with spray on bedliner, though, to protect it on a boat.

Yet another option would be something like a Remington 870 Marine Magnum shotgun.

 

[Badger Arms]

Up here, nearly everybody has a boat gun of some sort. The ones I've examined were of the single-shot shotgun variety. Even the nickel plated ones always required a good rap on the side of the boat to open. The reason is they are nearly all rusted shut. For a leisure yatch, I suppose a stainless gun might work, but on a real boat you need total protection.

A stainless barreled AR with a stainless or chromed carrier might do the trick as well.

WHEN your gun freezes up, how to you get it open again? It's rusted shut and you need it in a hurry. Pop Quiz, how do you upen a locked-up AR-15 in a hurry? Answer, you DON'T. With the AK, you simply store the thing with an empty chamber. When you go to open it, place the butt against the deck and kick the charging handle with a boot. If it doesn't open after a few kicks, you might want to use it as a club. No AR-15 can stand the kind of abuse you get on a regular basis up here without daily stripping and cleaning. Besides, they cost at least twice as much.

Maybe my concept of a boat gun is different than others.

 

[G.I.Jew]

Remember, Stainless steel simply stains less than regular steel, but it still stains.

 

[benEzra]

The stainless mini is fairly rust-resistant, but my stainless Ranch Rifle did get some light surface rust simply from being in the trunk of a car for a month in humid northwest Florida; it wouldn't stand up well to salt spray. If I were taking a mini on a boat, I would definitely go with a Choate pistol-grip synthetic stock (won't soak up salt water, and gives you a more secure grip); I have the Choate "E3" style stock on mine. After September 14, you may be able to get a Butler Creek synthetic-and-stainless folder.

HOWEVER, as an owner of both a stainless mini-14 and a SAR-1 (Romanian AK clone), in the situation you describe I would probably ship the SAR and a couple of mags off to Robar, have it coated with the dark-colored NP3 coating (rather than the silver), put a synthetic stock set on it, and go with it. Not only is the AK probably more abuse-tolerant than the mini, and less prone to get gunk in the action because the safety covers the charging-handle slot, but a major weak point of the mini-14 system from a marine-defense standpoint is the magazines. Mini-14 magazines, and AR magazine for that matter, are simply delicate. If you get a chance, compare a mini-14 or AR magazine side by side with an AK magazine; the feed lips of the former are very-light-gauge steel, while the AK mag's feed lips are more than 1/16" thick and nigh indestructable. If your magazines get banged up by rough handling, being dropped, etc. and won't work, you're sunk (no pun intended). Just make sure your mags and mag springs are corrosion-protected (even if you use synthetic AK mags, the springs could rust).

Also, the AK's tapered rounds will probably feed better when dirty than the .223; the AK makes .30-caliber holes in a boat instead of .22 caliber holes; and AK magazines are somewhat quicker to change than a mini's (though not as fast as an AR). Unless a politically-correct appearance is important (in which case a mini-14 with a synthetic Monte Carlo stock would fit the bill), I think a corrosion-protected AK would be the better choice for me.

Also, don't forget one thing that may be important in a crisis, perhaps even more important than which rifle he chooses--training. I don't know how "into guns" your stepdad is, but if I were him I'd try to get in a Tactical Carbine course from John Farnam (or whoever is most convenient). If he is ever attacked, he'll have the advantage of playing defense, which is a little simpler, but the bad guys in this situation may have the advantage of experience; I doubt he would be the first armed boat owner they had ever encountered. Just a thought.

 

[roscoe]

Hey, thanks for all the ideas!

I had thought of getting a .30 cal coated with some sort of rust resistant material, but I am worried about all the parts that are inside and cannot really be coated, not to mention the bore. I guess that in my mind the stainless Mini 14 would probably have stainless internals, although I don't really know.

I like the idea of a well-lubed AK in a plastic bag, since I have some reasonable confidence that it would run fine with a little rust and a kick on the charging handle. If Saigas in .308 came with stainless parts, that would really be the ticket.

I also agree about the training.

 

[Black Snowman]

I think i'd take an AK with 30 rnd magazines over a Sagia in .308 . My reasoning is that unless you have a very large and stable boat the extra rounds between reloads and cheaper mags are going to be more of a boon than the extra power of the bigger round. You have a lot more chances to hit with all the extra shots at your disposal.

 

[moorerwc]

on second thought

I would probably want a chrome lined barrel before a stainless barrel. Remember that most spray and bake finishes are applied to all of the small parts and some are even applied to the springs.

Sounds like an AK with chromelined bbl., Black-T, etc. coating all surfaces included mags, and a synthetic stock would be a really good way to go and be able to keep the price under a grand.

-Chad

 

[feedthehogs]

Being in the marine business, I had the opportunity to try out a little gun test a few years back while crossing the Gulf between Mexico and Key West.

Most large sportfish boats don't have the fuel capacity to make it one way so you load 55 gallon drums with fuel on the deck and transfer the fuel into the main tanks.

Well on the way back there was no need for the drums after the fuel was transfered so overboard they went.
They were plastic and floated so rather than be a hinder to navigation they needed to be sunk.
Out came the Mini 14 and Mini 30, both blued that stay on the boat, oiled, wrapped in anti rust paper and in a case for two years with no rust problems. they are checked every couple of months.

The results.

The .223 were too small of a hole to sink the barrels. Put over 200 rounds between 3 barrels and they never flinched.

The 7.62x39 faired much better. With about 50 rounds per barrel they filled and sunk in 3000 feet of water.

I would rather have an AK or mini 30. Would prefer to have a .308 for the fire power. Well layed up fiberglass can be tough not to mention steel.

And trying to hit a person from a rocking boat is near impossible with a semi-auto.

On the way back from Key West a few times, skeet shooting Gulls was near impossible from a rocking boat.

Next trip I'm going to try my Bushmaster BAR 10 I just picked up.

Like anything in the marine environment, it will be okay if taken care of.

A wonderful product to use is Corrosion X in the red can.

 

[MrMurphy]

Robar can NP3 or other finish the entire internals of a gun, though not the bore.

 

[Denko]

My take on this is that you need penetration.Does the attacking pirate craft have a wheelhouse,you want to be able to penetrate it.If inboard or outboard you need to be able to damage/stop the engines.You want to penetrate the hull to hit attackers hiding behind it.I would go with .308 in an FAL with NP3 finish.A marine magnum with slugs and 000 buck would be handy also.The slugs to penetrate and the 000 in the repel boarders mode

 

[armoredman]

Mossberg Marine coat, with slugs to sink the bad guys.

Seriously, send the gun to Robar Industries, and have the whole thing NP3d, or some other serious rust inhibitor. I was shipborne for several years, and our M14s and M2, as well as everything else on the rustbucket, er, ship, worked due to one thing - constant maintenance. Rust was a demon killed every day in every way.

 

[pauli]

how is this rifle intended to be used? defense against people already on the boat? defense against people on another vessel? offense against said vessel?

different tools for different jobs... already got that shotgun and revolver for close work , i guess...

 

[roscoe]

different tools for different jobs... already got that shotgun and revolver for close work , i guess...

Yeah - we just started talking about it, but I would imagine that he would want the rifle for reaching out at a bit of a distance and through material to people or engines or hull. That is why I thought the .308 would be nice. But maybe it is just too much to try to hit something from the pitching deck of a small boat without a belt-fed weapon.

 

[Master Blaster]

One tactical observation, How will you know that they are pirates until you are eyeball to eyeball with them and they are attempting to board your boat???? I've read about pirates who use a hot looking damsel in distress in a string Bikini to lure unsuspecting boaters.


Will you shoot at any nefarious looking folks who are 2 or 300 yards away?? What if they are Cuban fishermen you open up on by mistake??? Do you think they will be flying the jolly roger, shouting ARRRGH, and waving cutlases and flint locks to hail you??????

Suppose your are wrong and they are not pirates.

A good radio and situational awareness, then a remington marine magnum loaded with buckshot and slugs. You might also consider a saiga 12 guage if you like AKs and auto loaders.

A .44 magnum revolver or a good nickle plated .45 would be good up close weapons. A plan for who stands where and who does what is also a good idea.

 

[Das Pferd]

You must also remember that many countrys will not look favorably on someone with an AK.

Plus if he will have to be careful which states he docks in as well. If he has an AK aboard he will neer be able to sail to Ca.