rimfire derringers... seriously?

[azrocks]

I just don't get those dinky rimfire derringers that look like they should be part of Barbie & Ken's Thunder Ranch Playset. Why bother? All they look like to me is a negligent-discharge waiting to happen. At the range these would be 'effective', any pocketknife would be more effective.

Aside from contact-distance assassinations or a convenient self-maiming tool, what purpose do these toys serve?

I'm all for concealable handguns, but if your handgun doubles as a keychain... here's your sign.

 

[lysanderxiii]

I just don't get those dinky rimfire derringers that look like they should be part of Barbie & Ken's Thunder Ranch Playset. Why bother? All they look like to me is a negligent-discharge waiting to happen. At the range these would be 'effective', any pocketknife would be more effective.

Aside from contact-distance assassinations or a convenient self-maiming tool, what purpose do these toys serve?

I'm all for concealable handguns, but if your handgun doubles as a keychain... here's your sign.

Why the hate on rimfire?

Rimfire can be fairly potent . . .


Remington in .41 Short Rimfire

Hopkins & Allen revolver. it uses .38 Rimfire, here (on the left) compared to .38 Long Colt and .44 Colt

 

[Acera]

azrocks, you have to put their initial development and use into perspective of the time they were created and sold.

The idea of getting shot by one in the 1860s and well into the 20th century was terrifying. Not like today when modern medicine and availability of quick trauma care is taken for granted.

A gut shot by one of those could result in a slow, painful death. So attitudes were to avoid any and all injuries like that. It was a strong deterrence, unlike today where so many make fun of small calibers.

And if a person was shot with one, their chances of survival went down if they got shot again. So a hasty retreat when faced with another round coming at you was wise choice.



.

 

[kBob]

First we need to know what this new-ish guy with only 27 posts means by "rimfire derringers".

Az,

Do you mean something like a Remington over under but modern-ish made in one of the .22 caliber rimfire formats?

One of the High Standard DA only flat little guns?

Do you mean some thing like one of the little NAA mini revolvers?

Do you mean something like one of the Collectable Colt single shots?

I have in the half century since I left Mom & Dad's (the first time) had a few hairy situations where I had no gun and wished I had one. I can not recall after getting out of those situations EVEN ONCE thinking to myself, "Thank goodness, I did not have some sort of 'rimfire derringer' on me."

-kBob

 

[kBob]

Lysander,

Nice pictures. Thanks for sharing.

-kBob

 

[Gordon]

KBob, want to hear the story of an Air America pilot captured by two "Viet Minh" types who he dispached by palming his High Standard .22 Mag derringer in his raised hands and when the enemy was distracted with guns pointing away as they stripped his flight suit pockets he put one in each head and carried an AK back to rescue rondevoux . , at least that is what he told me in Udorn bar in 1970 when he showed me his useless Derringer

 

[azrocks]

KBob, want to hear the story of an Air America pilot captured by two "Viet Minh" types who he dispached by palming his High Standard .22 Mag derringer in his raised hands and when the enemy was distracted with guns pointing away as they stripped his flight suit pockets he put one in each head and carried an AK back to rescue rondevoux . , at least that is what he told me in Udorn bar in 1970 when he showed me his useless Derringer

Touche! But that's OK. I hoped this would spark discussion

Acera, that's very interesting! Good stuff.

Kbob, you're absolutely right. I should have been more specific. I was mainly thinking about the naa-type of mini-revolvers.

 

[MedWheeler]

kBob writes:

First we need to know what this new-ish guy with only 27 posts means by "rimfire derringers".

Actually, it's down to 15 now. I'm guessing he's been cleaned up some.

But he clearly doesn't get the meaning of the phrase "high road." In his intro post, he writes: "I grew up around guns." I'm not convinced, at least, not on the first three words.

 

[kBob]

The NAA single action revolvers have a fairly positive safety. The hammer is rather hard to pull back and there are safety notches between the cylinders to rest the firing pin in If I Recall Correctly.

There was a case at one of the Disney them parks where a Deputy claimed to have one go off while concealed that I mentioned soon after I joined THR. The owner of NAA immediately contacted me via PM and Email and seemed very interested in finding out how he managed it and where I got the information from.

Of the teenie tiny guns out there the NAA Mini is the one I personally would LEAST worry about having an ND with.

There have been numerous reports over the years of them having been used to successfully thwart bad guys and that one ND at Disney is the only one I have seen reported.

I would bet there were more Glock NDs in the first three years of importation than the total of the decades of NAA use.

-kBob

 

[Sistema1927]

To each their own.

Prior to legal CCW in my state my NAA .22M revolver allowed me to exercise my 2nd Amendment rights with very little chance of being "outed". (Never mind that carrying a concealed loaded handgun only carried a petty misdemeanor charge back then, and if it was a good shoot you weren't even looking at that.)

Would it have been my first choice if things were different? No, but this is not a perfect world and you do what you have to do. Even today there are a few times when even a KT P32 is too large, but the NAA still allows me some modicum of self-defense capability.

I have carried the NAA, off and on, for more than 25 years. Never had an ND. Even today, just pointing a handgun, regardless of size of the hole in the front of barrel, will take the fight out of the average aggressor. With the laserlyte attached I now also have a chance of hitting my target at greater distance than before.

You might very well feel that you are undergunned without a brace of Glocks and a dozen spare mags, and if so that is your business. However, it smacks of elitism that you would look down your nose at the choices that other people make.

 

[Panzerschwein]

The .22 MAGNUM NAA derringers have excellent stopping power at point-blank range with the new Hornady Critical Defense shells or Speer Gold Dot shells for them. They are not to be trifled with.

 

[CajunBass]

If you don't want one, don't buy it.

Seems pretty simple to me.

 

[goon]

If you run a search on THR, the effectiveness and utility of all derringers has been debated before. Usually the consensus comes out that they have their limitations, but that they're better than harsh language or a pointy stick.

The standard Remington pattern 2 shot rimfire clones (in .22LR or .22 Mag) are among the cheapest concealable guns you could get. I've seen for $50 to $75. So sure, you'd much rather have something else for about a hundred reasons - but if that little .22 gives someone peace of mind and a last ditch weapon to defend herself from an abusive ex or a crazed stalker, then it isn't useless.

Plus, I suspect that many people buy them as novelties just to have and shoot very infrequently for recreation/entertainment.

 

[calaverasslim]

I often carry a .32acp derringer as a pocket backup to my CCW. Tried a .38 but couldn't handle the recoil. The .32 is fine..

The derringers have their place.




DIDJA NOTICE??????? NUMBER 1000. Took me 11 years

 

[danez71]

I just don't get those dinky rimfire derringers that look like they should be part of Barbie & Ken's Thunder Ranch Playset. Why bother? All they look like to me is a negligent-discharge waiting to happen. At the range these would be 'effective', any pocketknife would be more effective.

Aside from contact-distance assassinations or a convenient self-maiming tool, what purpose do these toys serve?

I'm all for concealable handguns, but if your handgun doubles as a keychain... here's your sign.

Its concerning that you refer to any firearm as a toy


If you came to THR to get educated, you came to the right place.

 

[azrocks]

The .22 MAGNUM NAA derringers have excellent stopping power at point-blank range with the new Hornady Critical Defense shells or Speer Gold Dot shells for them. They are not to be trifled with.

According to http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/22mag.html, .22 mag out of a 2" barrel (the shortest they test) is subsonic with every round tested, most of which fell in the 800-900 fps range. Even if you were to just extrapolate the curve produced by the given data, a 1" barrel would produce velocities in the 600-800 fps range, but we know the closer we get to zero the more critical the loss of each inch, so I'd expect derringer velocities to be even further below those numbers. I think you'd be lucky to push 700fps out of even the lightest (25g) rounds, which puts you in low-range air rifle territory.

Not saying it's not capable of stopping someone. Just highly unlikely. And if it did stop someone, it would in most any case require you to be at pretty much point blank range (which is good... you don't want any more velocity loss!), with perfect shot placement to very specific locations of the body. And then only if you're lucky.

 

[WYO]

I just don't get those dinky rimfire derringers that look like they should be part of Barbie & Ken's Thunder Ranch Playset. Why bother? All they look like to me is a negligent-discharge waiting to happen. At the range these would be 'effective', any pocketknife would be more effective.

Aside from contact-distance assassinations or a convenient self-maiming tool, what purpose do these toys serve?

I'm all for concealable handguns, but if your handgun doubles as a keychain... here's your sign.

I'll see your pocket knife and raise you a NAA Pug .22 WMR.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2S1l6n6a0Wk

 

[Predator55]

i guess it depends on what side of the gun your on?

 

[azrocks]

Its concerning that you refer to any firearm as a toy

If you came to THR to get educated, you came to the right place.

About the only thing I've learned so far is that y'all appear to be wound up too tight. The post was meant as a fun way to spawn a discussion... the rib on derringer owners was a joke (hence the smiley face). A few people chimed in with great info and a good attitude. The majority (cough, cough) are obviously taking this opportunity to pee on the leg of the new guy. Fine. I understand how internet mentality works. I'm sure I'll soon have a post-count worthy of your respect.

Toy was a euphemism. But I know... you're busy right now trying to make me look stupid. Keep up the good work.

Someone mentioned me not knowing the meaning of the High Road previously. Is this what it means? Bashing new guys with passive-aggressive innuendo and thinly-veiled insults?

So just to clarify things for people whos sense of humor has been surgically removed: I don't think you're stupid for carrying a .22 derringer. Does that make your feels feel better?

 

[WYO]

I also found these pictures.

Close range to the face.



Not hard to get at least C zone hits at 7 yards with this gun.

 

[azrocks]

I also found these pictures.
Close range to the face.

I could use my fingers to poke holes in paper. But I will admit any handgun, even a .22 derringer, would cause damage at point blank range. The question is whether it's fight-stopping damage.

I also found these pictures.
Not hard to get at least C zone hits at 7 yards with this gun.

Yet police officers miss at closer ranges as a matter of routine using full-size service weapons. If you think you're hitting anything at 7 yards (aside from perhaps bystanders) with a derringer during the stress of a life or death confrontation you're deluding yourself. Not only is it pretty much the hardest handgun to shoot with any expectation of accuracy, it's also the one handgun you're likely to train the least with (I doubt the majority of owners have put more than 100 rounds through 'em).

Even if you did hit, your group size would be so wide that where you hit would be pure chance. What do you think the odds are that your 700fps 25g projectile (at the muzzle, best case) is going to hit a spot where it can penetrate enough to cause fight-stopping (CNS, heart) damage? Chances are real good your opponent wouldn't even know they were hit until they had already left you bleeding out on the asphalt.

 

[WYO]

A face with a bullet in it and powder burns (and the mega fireball flash in front of it) should allow some opportunity for escape. I can't lay my fingers on the chrono data this minute, but IIRC I was getting over 900 with the 40 grain Gold Dots. (Remember, its WMR, not LR.) I'm not trying to sell you on the gun. I am merely telling you why I would rather have it than a knife. Your opinion obviously varies.

 

[dodo bird]

Welcome to THR ARrocks. (Nice state btw). Most 22 lr ammo is 32-40 grains. No its not a cannon. However I will have to disagree on they are hard to use under stress. Growing up shotting saa they are very natural to me. The larger grips help as well. My parents always taught me to never get in a trunk when forced as you won't be coming out alive. These guns have a place as all do. Stay safe and welcome to the forum.

 

[goon]

About the only thing I've learned so far is that y'all appear to be wound up too tight. The post was meant as a fun way to spawn a discussion... the rib on derringer owners was a joke (hence the smiley face). A few people chimed in with great info and a good attitude. The majority (cough, cough) are obviously taking this opportunity to pee on the leg of the new guy. Fine. I understand how internet mentality works. I'm sure I'll soon have a post-count worthy of your respect.

I will agree that it got a little hostile for no real reason. This is just the internet...

 

[Coyote3855]

I could use my fingers to poke holes in paper. But I will admit any handgun, even a .22 derringer, would cause damage at point blank range. The question is whether it's fight-stopping damage.

Yet police officers miss at closer ranges as a matter of routine using full-size service weapons. If you think you're hitting anything at 7 yards (aside from perhaps bystanders) with a derringer during the stress of a life or death confrontation you're deluding yourself. Not only is it pretty much the hardest handgun to shoot with any expectation of accuracy, it's also the one handgun you're likely to train the least with (I doubt the majority of owners have put more than 100 rounds through 'em).

Even if you did hit, your group size would be so wide that where you hit would be pure chance. What do you think the odds are that your 700fps 25g projectile (at the muzzle, best case) is going to hit a spot where it can penetrate enough to cause fight-stopping (CNS, heart) damage? Chances are real good your opponent wouldn't even know they were hit until they had already left you bleeding out on the asphalt.

Don't like rimfire derringers? Simple. Don't buy one and don't carry one. You are making a lot of assumptions about those who chose to carry such a firearm as a primary or backup.

It's not your post count, but your attitude and assumptions that lead others on this forum to discount or question your unsupported opinions. In common with another poster, I carried a NAA .22 revolver when a different and larger handgun may have led to my losing a job. Aggressive dismissal or criticism of the firearms choices of others about whom you know nothing is likely to lead, yes, to some hostility. I don't have all the answers and neither do you. I conduct my own threat assessment and arm myself accordingly.