Round Balls VS. Buffalo Bullet

[brairpatch]

Ive owned a few muzzleloaders over the years and I find myself only owning a flintlock at the moment. Ive got it sighted dead at 75 yards with patched round balls. Now, Ive shot deer with round balls and have never had a problem, but theyve always been .54's and distances of less that 100 yrds. My question is/are...

How effective is a patched .50 round ball at 100 yards and in? (Im shooting 80g of Goex FFF and would like to be as "traditional" as possible without negatively effecting my hunt).

Should I switch to a buffalo bullet to get more distance? (I feel confident shooting out to 150).

 

[4v50 Gary]

The riflemen of the old days shot oranges at 100 yards distance. They used flintlock, round ball rifles. Try yours at 100 and up to 200.

Now, if you want to go beyond 300, get yourself a rifle-musket (Civil War percussion gun) that shoots a .58 caliber minie ball. The Enfield has an adjustable ladder sight and you can reach out to 500 yards with it.

 

[Cosmoline]

.50 RB is fine for deer at under 100 yards. But they do tend to lose velocity quickly due to the poor BC of the shape so I'd be wary of going much beyond that.

What's the twist rate on your barrel? If it's a slow twist that may preclude a long slug anyway.

 

[mykeal]

Agree with .50 prb over 80 gr out to 100 yards; 150 yards is pretty iffy due to loss of velocity. I wouldn't take that shot.

 

[Wildfire]

Twist rate.

Hey :
Check That twist rate. If that gun has a long twist rate the long bullets will not shoot straight.
They were designed for RB.
I went there and did that .. Learned the hard way and went back.
The gun shot fine.
As with any RB gun , shot placement is the key. Is with most rounds no matter what bullet or gun. Bad hits end in bad chases. There is no reason your gun can not work with RB.
Happy Hunting.

 

[arcticap]

How effective is a patched .50 round ball at 100 yards and in? (Im shooting 80g of Goex FFF...Should I switch to a buffalo bullet to get more distance? (I feel confident shooting out to 150).

I don't want to burst any bubbles but a .50 round ball just won't be as effective as a heavier conical such as the Hornady Great Plains bullet. That conical has devastating performance.
Remember, you asked about "how effective" .50 balls are out to 100 yards with 80 grains of Goex.
Well all deer are not created equal in size and weight.
A .54 ball weighs 225 grains and a .50 ball weighs about 177 grains.
No one knows if the .50 ball will anchor any deer that you shoot at.
But the chances are that it won't anchor it as well as a .54 RB would nor as well as a heavier .50 conical.
There's accuracy, energy, distance and size of the animal to consider.
Is there a good reason to not switch to a conical to better match the lethal performance of the .54 ball that you've been shooting deer effectively with all along?

 

[snooperman]

I ain't Bragging but.....

Twenty five years ago when I was competing in flintlock matches at Friendship IN, at the nationals I could consistently hit a 5 inch target offhand with .451 round balls. Also , I have killed many deer with my muzzleloading round ball guns, which have a very slow twist Douglas barrel of 1 turn in 66 inches. You will not get good accuracy from a conical bullet in a slow twist barrel. Also, I am willing to bet that you will get better accuracy with round balls in many barrels with twists of 1 turn in 28 inches as well. I am 69 years old and have killed more game with round ball muzzleloaders than I can remember and so has my wife, especially on my farmland. Just think how much game was killed back when that was all they had was round balls.

 

[BHP FAN]

I'm with Snoops on this one.I have yet to find a conical that was as accurate as a patched pure lead ball, from any of my rifles.

 

[[email protected]]

Holds true for pistols also. At Friendship pistol matches you can use either
bullets or round balls. I've been shooting there for 17 years and have never
seen anyone or heard of anyone shooting bullets. All the records have been
set by people shooting round balls. I did try bullets in one of my revolvers
a few years ago and found out first hand why they don't shoot bullets at
Friendship. That's one place you don't want to put yourself at a handecap!

 

[brairpatch]

Thanks for the replys.
I actually went out and got some TC Maxi-Balls and plan on trying them friday. If theyre not as accurate as patched round balls, I wont use them to hunt. I was just looking for a little more distance, but shot placement will be the key either way.
Ill keep you all posted as to how it goes.

 

[Smilin Jack]

brairpatch, I've used RB for years and they are good shooters. The slugs can also shoot well, but the twist rate of the barrel makes a BIG difference. Faster works better for slugs and the slow twist is better for RB.
The twist rate for RB is different, depending on caliber. My 58 cal slug gun has a twist of 1 turn in 60" and the RB barrel is 1 in 72". Check out twist rates on

http://www.thegunworks.com/GunIndex.cfm?next=who

They make custom barrels and can answer any of your questions. They do shipping of items you purchase... and several friends have built their own rifles using their locks, barrels etc. I shop there in person, as they are less than 50 miles from the house.

My Lyman Great Plains rifle in 50 cal has a 1 turn in 66" and is designed for RB. I have experimented shooting slugs, and found that Thompson maxi-hunter 350gr shoot great, but hit off about 16" left of the target. Put on a peep sight adjusted for that slug and also have a buckhorn for RB. The lighter maxi-hunter slugs won't group at all, so gave the leftovers to a friend.

Just take several of each to the range and give them a try. Maybe some friends can give you several of each type slug, instead of having to buy a box of each. I cast my own RB in 50 cal, but don't have a slug mold. My friend does, so that works out great when we get together for a casting session. Usually take all my moulds and his too and run through lots of lead. I have a 10 pound Lyman electric furnace and he has a blacksmith forge to melt more lead, so we can keep the electric pot full and cast until we've had enough for a day. We do this outdoors under the shed roof to keep lead fumes to a minimum.

Dave

 

[brairpatch]

Id rekon mines prolly 1 and 66 also. I did get the 275/270 (cant remeber) maxi balls and will be shooting them tomorrow. If they work- great, if not- I rekon Im out 20 bucks (damn bass pro). I hate that place, but thats for another time.

Im wanting to build a Lyman Great Plains in .50. I used to have a TC Hawken that was a tack driver with TC Cheap Shot Sabots, but traded it to some Amish kid for a roof on my cabin. Are you pretty satisfied with you Lyman? Whats the twist in a TC Hawken .50?

 

[arcticap]

Whats the twist in a TC Hawken .50?

I believe that the .50 percussion has a 1 in 48".

 

[mykeal]

Yes, that's correct.

 

[brairpatch]

I shot the TC Maxi-Balls this morning and was very happy with them. The groups not as tight, but they definitely hit a lot harder than a PRB. Im going to stick with then for the hunting and shoot the PRB for fun.

 

[Jefferson Herb]

maxi-balls

I found that 75 gr ffg w/ 370 maxi in 50cal will drive end for end thru blacktail.

 

[Hawkeye748]

Key to accuracy with conicals in a slow twist barrel is matching the bullet with the proper powder charge, the bullet to the barrel, lube and making sure you you use pure lead. For the same punch, better distance and better accuracy, you often will find a lesser charge with a conical does the job. Example, standard charge in minie guns during CW was about 60 grains of BP. Range up to 500 yards. RB guns, 80 grains plus of BP, range max of 100 yards.

I am not a fan of the Buffalo, sabots, or maxi balls. I cast minie balls that have great accuracy to 200 yards. I have used these in every type of muzzleloader, including modern inlines with fast twist. The key is match length of bullet with the twist, same with powder charge and lube, and make sure your bullets are pure lead and sized no more than .002 under your lan to lan diameter.

It requires a bit of experimentation, but that is where the fun is! You can get 4 inch groups at 200 yards if you take the time to match minie bullet, powder, lube to your gun. You will also get as much or more punch than a RB at 75-100 yards.

One caveat, you can build up lead in your barrel over time. Your gun will suddenly lose accuracy. It usually takes hundreds of rounds or more. Happens more often in the faster twist barrels. But if you need knock down and greater distance, go with a minie ball.

 

[brairpatch]

We shot again yesterday. I had less than a inch group at 75yrds and then the next 3 shots grouped around 6in. The next three were about the same as the second. Then I wanted to shoot my PRB again. Same thing with them, about a 6in group. So I then decided to shoot at a piece of steel (5x5) out at 100 and I hit it the first shot with the maxi ball.
What could be wrong with my second and third groups and my PRB group? Im sure I did the same thing everytime. I run a wet (barely) patch thru my barrel after every shot. Im shooting 80g of Goex FFFg with the 275gr maxi ball. Now these maxi balls arent very hard to get down the barrel. Could this be the issue?

I know I can definitely kill a deer out to 125-150 with this set up, but Id lke to be able to shoot them in the eye, figuratively speaking of course.

 

[Wildfire]

Scoped gun ?

Hey :
We don't know if THAT gun is scoped. If so it may have come loose.
If Not , get that barrel in the same condition as it was with that 1st shot .
If it was clean , clean it, etc.
Whatever is happening on the 2nd and shots after the first is the problem.

Make sure the gun is still all tight. But I am willing to bet the barrel needs to be in the same condition as it was with that 1st shot.

Just 1 wet patch may not be what it wants. All of these things act different.
Some shoot well dirty and some do not. Keep testing to find out.
I have never had any luck with the bullets you are using. Some do some do not. That bullet does not have to load hard , Expanding gas should upset the base enough to expand it out to the rifling and make a good seal.

Pure lead bullets work that way. A 1-66 twist will not like the longer bullets . It was designed for Round Balls. A 1-48 may work better .

But even then I have found RB to be more accurate in the 1-48s.
Faster twist and then the conicals will shoot better than RB. 1-28 etc.

 

[brairpatch]

No scope. Its a flintlock a buddy of mine built.
I also didnt clean it from the friday shoot, cause I knew wed be going again sat or sun.
Is a 6in group at 75 yards represenative of what one should expect. I am shooting iron sights, but Im a decent shot.
They seem to hit the paper very well with perfectly round holes, kinda like someone used a paper punch.
I think after our late BP season Ill tinker around with the powder charge a little.

 

[arcticap]

Now these maxi balls arent very hard to get down the barrel. Could this be the issue?

From the accuracy reports that I've heard about them that's an issue.
One theory behind why the Hornady Great Plains Bullets often shoot more accurately is because they do load much tighter.

also didnt clean it from the friday shoot,

That could also be another reason.

Is a 6in group at 75 yards represenative of what one should expect.

Some folks load wool wads underneath their flat base conicals to act like a gas check, to stop blow by and to improve consistency. But that may or may not help accuracy in every rifle and it requires some experimentation to determine.

I'm not sure just how important shooting good groups is since hunters shoot deer and not groups when they hunt.
Also the first shot from a cold clean barrel is the one that matters the most and not the 2nd through 6th shots after the barrel is fouled and/or warmed up.
If the first shot is right on and all of the other shots form a loose group, then how much more important is the group than the first shot? I don't think that the group is more important, but mainly only the first shot capability is.

...I think after our late BP season Ill tinker around with the powder charge a little.

I always thought that the TC MaxiHunters were suppose to be more popular and accurate. Also they're both made in different weights.

http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/default.php?cPath=15146_10303&sort=3a&page=2

 

[Wildfire]

I agree with arcticap.

Hey :
Arcticap said it right. That is why I said get that barrel in the same condition as that first shot.

That gun will shoot with extreme accuracy if this is done and done right.
I do not know your ability but , many can and do shoot very well with Iron sighted Flinters.

You are saying that your first shot is right on. Get that gun in the exact same condition as it was at your first shot and it will impress you.
It will not hold consistant groups with repeated firing .

My guess is it wants to be clean and cold.

 

[robhof]

You might also be getting some leading, if the conicals aren't pure lead, that would change accuracy. Try a tight patch through the barrel and see if the bore is smooth and see if any shiney bits come off. I got a batch of hollow base conicals that leaded my barrel, they were harder than pure lead. These were with a b/p assortment of bullets and parts on Ebay. I recast the rest and used them in my son's 45 LC.

 

[brairpatch]

Will do.
Whats the best way to get the lead out? I havent seen anything shimy, but how I clean my barrel may not be the correct way for lead.
When I shot patched round balls, I used TC cleaning patches, but have recently changed to rubbing alcohol. Im trying to leave my bore "seasoned", but if I need to switch to something a little more abrasive, I will.

 

[arcticap]

A bronze brush should work.