Ruger mini 14 vs AR15 accuracy challenge. Calling all Ruger Mini14 shooters

[wishin]

Krochus, even if I can't get to the range before the end of the year, and the end of your contest, I'll' send the targets when I next shoot.

 

[icanthitabarn]

I was shocked when my older Mini kept all the rounds on a little orange dot. No scope, just the orange glo stick glued to the front site. The stick even survived a trip to Ruger for a bolt replacement. They took out the buffer. Oh ya, shot at 50 feet.

 

[frankiestoys]

Range trip mini 14

Well i was able to get out today the weather was great here in sunny Florida.
First im going to say is , I want an AR . But before i here any Let me explain i went to the range in Palm Beach, it is sponsered by our local sheriff's. (fine men and women ) There facility has 50 yrds 100 yrds and 200,
Rifles only no handguns . My mini 14 as always does a fine job and i think my targets will show that. I was having a little trouble at first with the scope it was shooting way to the left , i bore sighted it and everything
It took awhile and i even got some help from a friend who brought along his very nice Bushmaster. We finally got the mini to hit close enough to give the contest some good results. I didn't follow the challenge to the letter in fact these two targets are the results of about eight or more.
The mini did a great job at 50 yrds and a respectable job at 100 yrds. Ammo used was remington fmj.
My friends Bushmaster was keeping much tighter groups at the 100 yrds then the mini. He also owns a mini and said ''It's a great little carbine'' but like's his AR better.
As i have said in my other post they are both good rifles and both deserve
some respect Im never selling my mini 14 but i think i want an AR too.
Any recomendations on a lower end AR are welcome.

 

[McBuck]

Acceptable for an auto IMO. But a little info on your gun :
What model Mini was it ? 180 series, 194...etc
What type glass do you have on it ?
Were there any mods to the gun ?
And last, but not least...can you post a pic of the gun ?

 

[frankiestoys]

Acceptable for an auto IMO. But a little info on your gun :
What model Mini was it ? 180 series, 194...etc
What type glass do you have on it ?
Were there any mods to the gun ?
And last, but not least...can you post a pic of the gun ?

580 series
nikon pro staff
trigger job
home made accu strut

 

[R.W.Dale]

frankiestoys how did you measure your group. I ran it through ontarget several times and I always came up with over 3"

 

[frankiestoys]

With a simple ruler , not from center of target. I don't have any fancy software.
I still think its respectable enough for a mini , maybe not to enough to win .
That's not important to me, my only purpose was to show that the (new ) mini 14 is an improved little carbine and not an inaccurate piece of S..t

 

[dom1104]

huh. that accu-strut must do its job, that is an impressive group for a mini.

3 moa is not bad at all.

 

[R.W.Dale]

With a simple ruler , not from center of target.
That's not important to me, my only purpose was to show that the (new ) mini 14 is an improved little carbine and not an inaccurate piece of S..t

We'll just have to agree to disagree then.Because at 3 moa from an accurized scoped model that would NOT be my assesment

 

[dom1104]

I think 3 moa is impressive for a mini.

But what i dont understand is why a ruler would show up 2 3/4 and some software would show 3?

What are we to believe?

My gut would say a ruler is more accurate than some fancy dancy software.

 

[frankiestoys]

well you know what they say about opinion's
Besides, a bad guy at the end of this rifle wouldn't be able to tell if it was a Mini or an AR
and thats enough for me.

 

[R.W.Dale]

I think 3 moa is impressive for a mini.

But what i dont understand is why a ruler would show up 2 3/4 and some software would show 3?

What are we to believe?

My gut would say a ruler is more accurate than some fancy dancy software.

This program has proven to be EXTREMELY accurate and has been accepted as the scoring method for all of THR's online matches.

Just as a double check I ran this file group I had shot with my rem7615 police carbine through the software using the same input values. As you can see on/target pretty much agrees with my digital calipers for this target.

 

[stchman]

Very nice groupings at 100 yards. People that say Minis are inaccurate have never shot one.

 

[stchman]

My only problem with this test is that there should be the following rules:

All rifles are stock. The price range should be under $1000 for each rifle
No bull barrels
No fancy optics
No mods of any kind
No harmonic dampeners

Same brand/weight ammo needs to be used.

Each rifle needs to be locked down in a solid bench rest. You need to remove the shooter from the equation. We are finding out how accurate the rifle is, not the shooter. Some people are a better shot than others.

Once the rifle is completely locked down in a solid rest then pull the trigger 10 times to see what the results are.

A sample of 10 of each rifle should be used and remove teh high and low in each group.

 

[xsquidgator]

krochus-
A little off-topic but THANKS! for the info about ontargetcalc. That's frickin' awesome and I wish I'd known about it a couple of years ago. Re- program accuracy, I just ran it on some old targets I'd done and it agrees with my painfully slow measurements with a ruler.

 

[General Geoff]

Each rifle needs to be locked down in a solid bench rest. You need to remove the shooter from the equation. We are finding out how accurate the rifle is, not the shooter. Some people are a better shot than others.

Once the rifle is completely locked down in a solid rest then pull the trigger 10 times to see what the results are.

Why the ban on fancy optics then? Optics do not affect mechanical accuracy, only shooter ability.

 

[R.W.Dale]

Why the ban on fancy optics then? Optics do not affect mechanical accuracy, only shooter ability.

or better yet just shoot the darn groups and quit complaining


here's my submission I just shot

The average for the two groups is 1.72"



shot with this rifle, as stock an ar as you can possibly get.
a bone stock pencil thin barreled army surplus colt 603 upper in a1 configuration.
cast EA lower with a parts kit fire control group
ammo was really old Black hills 52grn HP
all 10 rds were fired over the course of 2min 20 sec






and yes on target is accurate. I was a bit baffled by the discrepancy of Group no 2 but after going back and double checking I found because of the holes position on the edge of the plastic sticker it oblongs as it borders the edge of the decal thus group size based on this hole is diffrent from its inside or outside measurment vs the other extreme hole on calipers. On target splits this discrepancy almost exactly.

 

[frankiestoys]

krochus

Thats some fine shooting and a nice AR , i was just looking at a DPMS on GB ,but i still think that a bad guy wouldn't know the difference at the wrong end of my mini .

 

[R.W.Dale]

krochus

Thats some fine shooting and a nice AR , i was just looking at a DPMS on GB ,but i still think that a bad guy at the end of my mini wouldn't know the difference .

Thanks!

My issue with this is I shoot targets,other items & small furry woodland creatures a whole whole whole lot more often than bad guys, and these targets would indeed know the difference.

DPMS makes a fine piece of equipment you won't be disappointed

 

[X - Man]

Frankiestoys: I wanted to ask what type of ammo did you use?

 

[frankiestoys]

Frankiestoys: I wanted to ask what type of ammo did you use?

Well im sure it would have helped my resuts if i used some better ammo, but whats done is done .
Remington 55 gr fmj mc

 

[X - Man]

Thanks, I'm just taking notes on results. I agree with your comment, as getting a good match between rifle and ammo is critical for best results.

Good shooting, by the way.

 

[Avenger29]

Well im sure it would have helped my resuts if i used some better ammo, but whats done is done .
Remington 55 gr fmj mc

If you can find a favorite brand of ammunition...I'd like to see the results.

 

[420Stainless]

Does barrel length play any factor with the potential accuracy? I know short rifles can be capable of great accuracy, but most of the ARs I see pictures of that are set up for matches seem to have at least a 20" barrel and often longer. Seems at the very least that both rifles should be of equivalent weight (+ a couple of ounces) if not similar in other respects.

Just wanted to ask because I've never shot an AR or .223 and am curious in case I look into getting one someday. I do have a mini, but its a virgin 6.8SPC thats been waiting quite some time for me to load ammo for it. Obviously I need to spend more time at the rifle range learning more about this stuff, but I've always been more into handguns.

If I do get some 6.8 SPC loaded can it count in the AR vs Mini debate?

 

[R.W.Dale]

Does barrel length play any factor with the potential accuracy?

In terms of pure mechanical accuracy in theory a shorter and therefore stiffer barrel SHOULD be more accurate than the same barrel in a longer length. Now shooting at long ranges the muzzle velocity loss associated with a short barrel can become an accuracy decreasing factor. But we're talkin 300 or 400 meters plus before this factor comes into play!

Sight radius is another factor. Shorter barrels typically have a shorter sight radius making them a bit more difficult to shoot accurately using irons. BUT this leaves me with a question for the mini guys How far apart is the front and rear sight on a ruger mini?