Ruger mini 14 vs AR15 accuracy challenge. Calling all Ruger Mini14 shooters

[R.W.Dale]

Here we are 2 weeks in and over 100 replies later and still no mini targets submitted that have been shot along the guidelines set forth in post number 1.......


here is the first out of two runs I made yesterday (my official submission is on pg 10) this one wasn't as good as the second so it didn't get officiated. But hey I figure I'll post it to show that my other submission wasn't a fluke.

2.022" average


1st


2nd

 

[420Stainless]

BUT this leaves me with a question for the mini guys How far apart is the front and rear sight on a ruger mini?

Mine are just about 22 inches apart.

I still think any AR's used for comparison should be limited to 7 pounds weight and $800 max. cost for a fair comparison.

 

[dom1104]

seriously. less rules more targets. its getting tedious.

We all know the ARs will win, what we are interested in is how well the minis can do.

 

[General Geoff]

Here we are 2 weeks in and over 100 replies later and still no mini targets submitted that have been shot along the guidelines set forth in post number 1.......

Closest thing I own to a Mini-14 is an M1A. My friend with the Mini hasn't gotten back to me yet

 

[R.W.Dale]

Mine are just about 22 inches apart.

Advantage mini then My 20" A1's sights are only 20" apart

I still think any AR's used for comparison should be limited to 7 pounds weight and $800 max. cost for a fair comparison.

WHY????????When the only AR submitted save for about .5lbs so far sails under your "requirement" with flying colors. Heck it even has a thinner barrel

We all know the ARs will win, what we are interested in is how well the minis can do.

+1000000000

More targets less excuses! Since I started this thread I've done nothing but make concessions to the MINI crowd allowing accurizing and now optics. It's not like I'm asking for sub MOA groups. We're talking TWO and a HALF INCHES for crying out loud.

 

[X-Rap]

I still think any AR's used for comparison should be limited to 7 pounds weight and $800 max. cost for a fair comparison.

The issue from the start has not been cost or weight but how they perform, I can pretty much guarantee that the AR's will win on the average and won't have to have truss'es attached to the front end. If AR's are to simply improved then it seems that helps in answering the age old question then doesn't it.
I think that the 7# $800. criteria will bump out quite a few AR's but I never thought accuracy was to be sacrificed to cost. If that is the test then lets shoot SKS's and put the cap at $250 or even the $59 that I gave for mine.

 

[R.W.Dale]

If that is the test then lets shoot SKS's and put the cap at $250 or even the $59 that I gave for mine

Please shoot it! It's not like I'm going to prevent you from posting pics. At his point I don't care what gets submitted provided it's an autoloading centerfire and uses non magnified optics........Mini guys you can still use a scope just not to claim the prize ammo

 

[X-Rap]

I will try to get out over the weekend if I don't make a fishing trip and shoot a few AR's and a SKS. I don't have a mini and don't even know anybody that does anymore.
I'll go open sights on the H-Bar, 2x7 leupold on a light barreled carbine and a eotec or trijicon on M-forgeries.
Might need some help with the pic posting.

 

[General Geoff]

At his point I don't care what gets submitted provided it's an autoloading centerfire and uses non magnified optics........

Alright, you asked for it...



Measures 4.5" (the far shot up top measures 4.5" from the other two furthest, making roughly an equilateral triangle), it looks a bit bigger in the photo because the measuring tape is floating about an inch above the plate. I made sure to line up the edge of the tape with the edge of the left hole. I got that 15-shot group while shooting off-hand standing. I'm not entirely sure I could reproduce that if I tried...

 

[R.W.Dale]

That's cool General now please go out and shoot the 2 5shot in under 3min challange

 

[General Geoff]

will-do, once I get someone to accompany and time me


edit; looks like I'll have a chance to do it Saturday.

 

[R.W.Dale]

Terrific! I look forward to seeing your results

 

[General Geoff]

Had a chance to shoot this morning. Here are my results (click for full size):



I haven't actually done a measurement with a ruler or tape measure yet, but it looks like 3 MOA (average of the two targets) as-is. I didn't realistically expect any better with milsurp ammo, which is all I have at the moment. Just as a note, the left target I shot second, so barrel heatup has nothing to do with the group sizes (the rifle was already warm anyway, as I'd shot a few test groups before that set). I didn't write "AR15 vs Mini14" on the targets because I don't qualify for the contest anyway, technically

But bottom line, ~3" average is the best I can muster with my equipment. Done with a Springfield M1A Standard, 100 yards, iron sights, prone. Rifle:

 

[frankiestoys]

Nice shootin General , good looking rifle too. My dad owned one when i was a kid he's still mad he sold it.

 

[General Geoff]

Thanks. I got a huge kick out of shooting in the leaves, note the large patch of leafless grass directly in front of the muzzle. My friend Ed was observing, and he observed the leaves being blown away by the muzzle blast. Also, after shooting two sets of five shots, the leaves directly under the rifle were smoking for some reason!

 

[R.W.Dale]

Great shooting general, nice equipment too

Your average according to on target is 3.092"

 

[420Stainless]

The issue from the start has not been cost or weight but how they perform

Cost and weight were the two reasons why I chose a Mini over an AR. I haven't seen any off-the-shelf ARs available for within $200 of my Mini and most stock ARs, even in carbine configuration, come in at over a pound heavier. If someone designs a 6.5lb AR that sells for $700, runs reliably, and always gives < 3 minutes of angle then they would surely dominate the market. But most of the time, one of those attributes needs to be sacrificed in order to meet another. I just read an article for the new STI AR that's 6.5lbs and shoots less than one minute of angle (highly impressive). However, it MSRPs at $1300 - which probably puts the street price at > $1100. A great value for what it is, but too expensive for what I want in handy carbine.

 

[R.W.Dale]

Cost and weight were the two reasons why I chose a Mini over an AR. I haven't seen any off-the-shelf ARs available for within $200 of my Mini and most stock ARs, even in carbine configuration, come in at over a pound heavier. If someone designs a 6.5lb AR that sells for $700, runs reliably, and always gives < 3 minutes of angle then they would surely dominate the market. But most of the time, one of those attributes needs to be sacrificed in order to meet another. I just read an article for the new STI AR that's 6.5lbs and shoots less than one minute of angle (highly impressive). However, it MSRPs at $1300 - which probably puts the street price at > $1100. A great value for what it is, but too expensive for what I want in handy carbine.

http://www.dpmsinc.com/store/products/?prod=5295
$704 @ 6.3lbs and it comes with 2 30rd mags an $80 value on the Mini


here it is for $660
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=147682841
You mini guys don't seem to be very savvy shoppers

 

[BHP FAN]

''You mini guys don't seem to be very savvy shoppers..''

Well,I bought mine for $200.00.

 

[R.W.Dale]

''You mini guys don't seem to be very savvy shoppers..''

Well,I bought mine for $200.00.

Lets stick to new prices for comparisons, used prices on ANYTHING really only reflect on the seller's knowledge

Where are all these mythical sub $500 mini's? In the past 10 years of me trolling every gun shoppe in a 300mile radius I have yet to see a ruger Mini ANYTHING priced at less than $600. Be that used, new or looking like it was ran over with a farm implement.

 

[danez71]

Nice challenge Krochus.

I would have liked better if it was unmodified vs unmodified. But.....

I have a mini that I dont shoot any more however, I DONT think I could have beat your challange.

I always thought of my mini 14 as a Ranch rifle instead of a sniper or target rifle. Still like the gun though as I think it performs its intended purpose fairly well.

Nice challenge.

 

[SHvar]

As a long time Mini14 owner I can tell you that the reason there are still no Mini14 submissions that come close to the competition standards is plain and simple.
The mini is made as an inexpensive ranch rifle, period.
With several hours and lots of ammo to fire, and a very good scope mounted on mine years ago I could get the first 2 shots in about an inch at 100 yds, after that the shots strayed wider and wider, usually by about 1 to 2 inches more, and wider as you fired more.
In the time allotted, a mini14 or 30 can only place about 3-4 shots in the 2.5 inch group if you are locked down to eliminate as much human error as possible. Im basing this from my old stainless mini14 that has the very thin barrel, the one I bought in 1992.
Obviously the submissions from newer heavier barreled, very heavily modified mini14s are proving that no amount of money, or equipment will improve that.

Both 16 inch ARs I have shoot far better. Oh, and the trigger assembly doesnt rattle loose with the factory stock, then fall out unexpectantly while firing such as happens with the mini14 or 30.
For the responce about reliability and lubrication used near the beginning, without lubrication of any kind, any AR or M-16 Ive ever seen will far outperform and mini14 ever.
The mini 14 will eat lots of cheap ammo and in all my years shooting it Ive had one jamb, a case stuck in the chamber once, it took a bit to get loose but it happened. My ARs have never had that problem period. Keep in mind I could fire both of my Ars (Bushy, and DPMS) rather quickly and group all 20 shots in the area that my mini 14 would group 5 shots taking all day to allow the barrel to cool between shots.

 

[BushyGuy]

Oh please a suped up Mini-14 vs a fully modified AR-15 -it wont be a fair contest cuz AR15's that have trigger jobs and Bushmaster barrels will be undefeated in this match-up.

Gas piston Mini-14s even the target rifles are no match for fully upgraded AR's DI has better accuracy then any gas piston rifle on the planet, only downside is the jams.

Looks like Mini-14 owners are looking for revenge on how bad they are being beaten by match grade AR15's

 

[R.W.Dale]

Oh please a suped up Mini-14 vs a fully modified AR-15 -it wont be a fair contest cuz AR15's that have trigger jobs and Bushmaster barrels will be undefeated in this match-up.

And yet we have a cast lower, cheap parts kit trigger, ????? round count surplus chrome lined pencil thin barreled US army surplus upper'ed AR shooting iron sights besting the only mini target submitted from a modded scoped Mini.

Plus if you'd bothered to read the OP you would see that this isn't really a Mini vs AR match, but rather it's getting JUST ONE example of two groups from a mini that average a rather underwhelming 2.5" at 100 yds. As I mentioned previously the other submissions are to simply show that it can be done.

At the rate we're going I have no doubt I'll be shooting the 2 boxes of Monarch through my AR come February What happened to the mini guys on perfectunion?

 

[ThomasT]

I would like to try this but right now is deer season. I shoot where I hunt and don't want to shoot the place up until I have a second deer in the freezer.

I may go to a public range (yuck) and do the shooting. But most likely I will wait till after the hunting is finished.

You mentioned perfect union. Have you posted the contest oer there? I haven't been on PU in a while.