rust never sleeps--or the eternal push for illegal immigrant amnesty
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longeyes
member
I want to know what concessions the U.S. is getting IN MEXICO. Cheaper oil? Real estate? Cooperation against Islamofascism? Free Puerto Vallarta vacations? What exactly? Anything?
¿Or is it just more busboys? More "customers" for our schools, welfare agencies, medical establishments?
When a government no longer operates in bona fides all bets are off. We are there.
¿Or is it just more busboys? More "customers" for our schools, welfare agencies, medical establishments?
When a government no longer operates in bona fides all bets are off. We are there.
1. Stop illegal immigration. Expand border control or build a wall or both.
2. Streamline legal process for deportation once they are caught. Enable the border patrol to do their jobs.
3. Enforce employment policies and go after businesses that hire illegals.
4. Expand or streamline legal immigration. I have no problem with migrant workers or immigrants, but I think we should know who they are and when the entered the country.
5. No Amnesty. All current illegals must apply for a visa from their country of origin. I really don't care if they go home and come right back legally, but they must go home first.
6. Require legal work status or citizenship for any and all public services. Give emergency services the freedom to refuse service. No free medical care. You may not let them die, but there better be an officer waiting to haul them off as soon as they are released.
7. No social security at all for illegals or non-citizens.
There are lots of other things I guess.
2. Streamline legal process for deportation once they are caught. Enable the border patrol to do their jobs.
3. Enforce employment policies and go after businesses that hire illegals.
4. Expand or streamline legal immigration. I have no problem with migrant workers or immigrants, but I think we should know who they are and when the entered the country.
5. No Amnesty. All current illegals must apply for a visa from their country of origin. I really don't care if they go home and come right back legally, but they must go home first.
6. Require legal work status or citizenship for any and all public services. Give emergency services the freedom to refuse service. No free medical care. You may not let them die, but there better be an officer waiting to haul them off as soon as they are released.
7. No social security at all for illegals or non-citizens.
There are lots of other things I guess.
longeyes
member
keep Bush in Cancun
Maybe they should start by encouraging their kids to study? Over half the illegal population in high school isn't graduating. Their future is in marginal physical work or crime.
Our governments couldn't deal with Katrina. Well, opening your doors to millions of needy people a year is Katrina cubed. What bureaucracy is going to handle this influx? This is utter lunacy--of a very deliberate kind.
Maybe they should start by encouraging their kids to study? Over half the illegal population in high school isn't graduating. Their future is in marginal physical work or crime.
Our governments couldn't deal with Katrina. Well, opening your doors to millions of needy people a year is Katrina cubed. What bureaucracy is going to handle this influx? This is utter lunacy--of a very deliberate kind.
"I love you Biker! You have a great sense of humor. Now the other fella who wants to send people back without fingers...he's one evil bastard."
Heh...I don't suppose you'd want to hear other plans I'd like to see enacted?
I think the Middle East has the right idea with cutting off thieves' hands, though I think a fair trial should be held first.
I also think punishments in general should be based not just on the crime, but also on the number of people the crime hurt. Of course my way the white collar embezzlers who bilk thousands out of thier retirement funds run out of fingers real quick.
Heh...I don't suppose you'd want to hear other plans I'd like to see enacted?
I think the Middle East has the right idea with cutting off thieves' hands, though I think a fair trial should be held first.
I also think punishments in general should be based not just on the crime, but also on the number of people the crime hurt. Of course my way the white collar embezzlers who bilk thousands out of thier retirement funds run out of fingers real quick.
Camp David
member
Biker said:
Gee... you'd have been a real hard case 2,000 years ago with that illegal guy born in the manger! Is your middle name "Pontius" by chance?
longeyes
member
You're right: Send them to D.C. THAT is where the problem lies.
longeyes
member
Talk about twisted history. Illegal? Pilate gave him a break.
Well, there's one sure development coming out of this "reform:" swelling attetndance at Catholic churches. I'd say SRO.
Couple of general, unsubstantiated points from me:
I am more concerned about the illegal “South Americans” then any jihadist or terrorist. I live in LA and see the effects of this first hand. Tell me it wouldn’t bother you to go into a restaurant and not be able to order because you can’t speak Spanish. Or be declined a job because you only speak one language. Or know that the bi-lingual classes taught in school actually only teach English 1 hour a day.
I don’t think most illegal (Mexicans) draw much welfare. I believe that there are more living a poor life (eating just beans and rice) or living 8 or more people into a 2 bedroom house then there are those getting welfare. Both of these scenarios are common ways that Mexicans survive here in LA where the median home price is $500K.
So what if no one picks fruit in the US. A lot of fruit comes from outside of the country like nectarines from Chile and apples from Australia. The only problem with this is then our gov’t puts large tariffs on imports to protect our farmers so that imported apple is $5 a pound. I think that the groups hurt most will be the large corporate farms with thousands of acres that they grow. I believe that our farms should be smaller, family owned anyway. We also may have to go back to where fruit is available during certain seasons. Right now, I can get my Gala’s year ‘round, I would wait a few months.
Anyone see “A Day Without a Mexican”? It threw out a lot of one-sided facts and gave the impression that us gringos will not be able to cope without cheap labor. Americans like paying for low cost car washes, lawn care and other services. Until we are willing to do for our own and stop giving folks a reason to seek these low paying jobs, we are going to have the immigrants coming here.
I am a white male, married to a Mexican woman so I have seen both sides of the fence (figuratively). She was born here and is now a teacher but her family consists of the stereotypical illegals, high-school drop outs and drug dealers.
I am more concerned about the illegal “South Americans” then any jihadist or terrorist. I live in LA and see the effects of this first hand. Tell me it wouldn’t bother you to go into a restaurant and not be able to order because you can’t speak Spanish. Or be declined a job because you only speak one language. Or know that the bi-lingual classes taught in school actually only teach English 1 hour a day.
I don’t think most illegal (Mexicans) draw much welfare. I believe that there are more living a poor life (eating just beans and rice) or living 8 or more people into a 2 bedroom house then there are those getting welfare. Both of these scenarios are common ways that Mexicans survive here in LA where the median home price is $500K.
So what if no one picks fruit in the US. A lot of fruit comes from outside of the country like nectarines from Chile and apples from Australia. The only problem with this is then our gov’t puts large tariffs on imports to protect our farmers so that imported apple is $5 a pound. I think that the groups hurt most will be the large corporate farms with thousands of acres that they grow. I believe that our farms should be smaller, family owned anyway. We also may have to go back to where fruit is available during certain seasons. Right now, I can get my Gala’s year ‘round, I would wait a few months.
Anyone see “A Day Without a Mexican”? It threw out a lot of one-sided facts and gave the impression that us gringos will not be able to cope without cheap labor. Americans like paying for low cost car washes, lawn care and other services. Until we are willing to do for our own and stop giving folks a reason to seek these low paying jobs, we are going to have the immigrants coming here.
I am a white male, married to a Mexican woman so I have seen both sides of the fence (figuratively). She was born here and is now a teacher but her family consists of the stereotypical illegals, high-school drop outs and drug dealers.
engineer151515
Member
Yup.
Plus I'd empower the police to write fines for every illegal worker on a jobsite.
And I don't care what country you came from. Mexico, China, Ireland, whatever. I'd fine the employer. $500 per person per occurance.
This illegal worker economy has to stop.
It takes advangtage of both citizens and non-citizens.
It makes slave labor out of hard working people.
The US economy will have to adjust to the real market value of services these illegal workers provide. It is like saying we have to keep the slaves to pick the cotton because the slaves are so cheap. NO. Not the answer. If lettuce gets too expensive to pick someone will find a new way to grow/pick lettuce because there will be a market incentive to do it.
You do not keep the injustice going just because it is convenient.
Dear El Barto,
California right now has the 10th largest economy in the world. Bigger than most countries. Our #1 export is produce. To get rid of the laborers would devastate the state and the country.
Don't believe my facts...you're on the internet, check out the facts for yourself. Only try and stay out of "hate groups" websites. Although their info is interesting, it is also slanted, distorted, and false. Stay with government websites.
California right now has the 10th largest economy in the world. Bigger than most countries. Our #1 export is produce. To get rid of the laborers would devastate the state and the country.
Don't believe my facts...you're on the internet, check out the facts for yourself. Only try and stay out of "hate groups" websites. Although their info is interesting, it is also slanted, distorted, and false. Stay with government websites.
Aloha...
Go to www.fairus.org and click on "about your state" on the right side of the page to see what immigration, illegal and otherwise, is doing to California.
BTW, fairus could hardly be termed a 'hate group' website.
The facts are well researched and backed-up.
Tell me what you think.
Biker
Go to www.fairus.org and click on "about your state" on the right side of the page to see what immigration, illegal and otherwise, is doing to California.
BTW, fairus could hardly be termed a 'hate group' website.
The facts are well researched and backed-up.
Tell me what you think.
Biker
Aloha,
I do know that California is rated as being between 7-10th largest in the world. But from what the farmers are telling us is that they have to employee illegal labor because margins are so small.
There are currently shortages of field laborers now becuase there is more money to be made in construction. Is this shortage going to collapse the US economy? Probably not. Would the economy be impacted if all of a sudden California stopped growing food? Yes, but I don't think anyone would let the situation get that bad and I don't think that the US's existence relies on California’s food exports. The market will correct itself and I believe that there are alternatives then hiring illegals to pick the food.
I'm too lazy to look it up, so please tell me where the profits are going from all the produce exports?
I do know that California is rated as being between 7-10th largest in the world. But from what the farmers are telling us is that they have to employee illegal labor because margins are so small.
There are currently shortages of field laborers now becuase there is more money to be made in construction. Is this shortage going to collapse the US economy? Probably not. Would the economy be impacted if all of a sudden California stopped growing food? Yes, but I don't think anyone would let the situation get that bad and I don't think that the US's existence relies on California’s food exports. The market will correct itself and I believe that there are alternatives then hiring illegals to pick the food.
I'm too lazy to look it up, so please tell me where the profits are going from all the produce exports?
Headless Thompson Gunner
Member
I don't follow some of the logic here.
Can y'all explain to me how it harms our country to have immigrants (legal or otherwise) working for low wages? How do you reach the conclusion that big corporations harm America when they offer jobs to immigrants for low wages?
As long as the immigrants earn their keep, pay their share of the taxes, and stay out of trouble, what's the problem?
Yes, I know that many don't earn their keep, don't pay any taxes, and don't stay out of trouble. These folks should be booted out of the country immediately.
But there are plenty of immigrants (some legal, some illegal) who earn a living without leaching off our tax dollars, who pay taxes on their wages, and who stay out or trouble. What's the problem with allowing these folks stay in our country? Giving them amnesty or temporary worker status or whatever wouldn't really hurt anyone, would it?
Can y'all explain to me how it harms our country to have immigrants (legal or otherwise) working for low wages? How do you reach the conclusion that big corporations harm America when they offer jobs to immigrants for low wages?
As long as the immigrants earn their keep, pay their share of the taxes, and stay out of trouble, what's the problem?
Yes, I know that many don't earn their keep, don't pay any taxes, and don't stay out of trouble. These folks should be booted out of the country immediately.
But there are plenty of immigrants (some legal, some illegal) who earn a living without leaching off our tax dollars, who pay taxes on their wages, and who stay out or trouble. What's the problem with allowing these folks stay in our country? Giving them amnesty or temporary worker status or whatever wouldn't really hurt anyone, would it?
Biker
I am getting my degree this year in Criminal Justice, and I had to write a term paper on "The Fiscal Impact of Illegal Immigration on the California Criminal Justice System." It was hard to feel good about things after that. The problems are incredibly immense. Countries like China don't have the problems we have, but they also don't have the benefits a democracy like we have.
This isn't pre-war Nazi Germany. There's no way this country can expel those who are here illegally. The cost alone would break us financially, and would cause irreversable damage among the ethic/cultural diversity lines. Americans have been ingenius in the past in figuring ways to make a perilous situation work for for our benefit. We need to get our best minds, and find a way to make this problem work for us and our mutual benefit.
"If life hands you lemons, make lemonade."
"If life hands you 20 million lemons, make one helluva lemonade stand."
I am getting my degree this year in Criminal Justice, and I had to write a term paper on "The Fiscal Impact of Illegal Immigration on the California Criminal Justice System." It was hard to feel good about things after that. The problems are incredibly immense. Countries like China don't have the problems we have, but they also don't have the benefits a democracy like we have.
This isn't pre-war Nazi Germany. There's no way this country can expel those who are here illegally. The cost alone would break us financially, and would cause irreversable damage among the ethic/cultural diversity lines. Americans have been ingenius in the past in figuring ways to make a perilous situation work for for our benefit. We need to get our best minds, and find a way to make this problem work for us and our mutual benefit.
"If life hands you lemons, make lemonade."
"If life hands you 20 million lemons, make one helluva lemonade stand."
Aloha..
The CIS did a study a few years ago (6?) and determined that the average immigrant takes $56,000 more out of the system than they put in over a lifetime. Now, if we have a million or more crossing the border every year, we're talking...um, er..a *gimungous* amount of money, just for one year!
I think that we could deport them for that much. Also, considering your degree, I'm sure you know that about 30% of all federal prisoners are illegals, yes?
Concerning cultural differences and concerns, it's not my problem and it's only theirs if they make it one. Personally, I see a lot of bloodshed anyway if things don't change soon. Hope I'm wrong...
Biker
The CIS did a study a few years ago (6?) and determined that the average immigrant takes $56,000 more out of the system than they put in over a lifetime. Now, if we have a million or more crossing the border every year, we're talking...um, er..a *gimungous* amount of money, just for one year!
I think that we could deport them for that much. Also, considering your degree, I'm sure you know that about 30% of all federal prisoners are illegals, yes?
Concerning cultural differences and concerns, it's not my problem and it's only theirs if they make it one. Personally, I see a lot of bloodshed anyway if things don't change soon. Hope I'm wrong...
Biker
Headless: If you have visited the non-touristy parts of LA, then you can get a better idea of the impact. It is a more complicated problem than accepting folks for who they are. It is everything associated with the problems of immigrants not understanding the way we do things in the US.
Aloha: I’m not saying to put on the jackboots and kick everyone out that is not “American”. I am saying stop peeing in the streets and tagging up everything.
I know we are all immigrants and we all should be given a chance to succeed or fail. The problems begin when English is not the primary language and our American heritage and values are put aside. I don’t mind a school being named Martin Luther King High, Washington High, Caesar Chavez High or even Carol Street High. I DO have a problem when a school is named “Benito Juarez Elementary” after the Mexican President.
I also don’t think it is sanitary or safe to have multiple families living in single family homes or to build apartment buildings in your 50’ x 50’ backyard.
And no one seems to care. Except for Biker.
Biker, got any land for sale up near you? I hope you don’t mind that I got guns, oh and a Kawasaki.
Aloha: I’m not saying to put on the jackboots and kick everyone out that is not “American”. I am saying stop peeing in the streets and tagging up everything.
I know we are all immigrants and we all should be given a chance to succeed or fail. The problems begin when English is not the primary language and our American heritage and values are put aside. I don’t mind a school being named Martin Luther King High, Washington High, Caesar Chavez High or even Carol Street High. I DO have a problem when a school is named “Benito Juarez Elementary” after the Mexican President.
I also don’t think it is sanitary or safe to have multiple families living in single family homes or to build apartment buildings in your 50’ x 50’ backyard.
And no one seems to care. Except for Biker.
Biker, got any land for sale up near you? I hope you don’t mind that I got guns, oh and a Kawasaki.
GTSteve03
Member
The "best" minds have already found the way. It's called "screw the middle class and let the rich prosper."
Why pay more to hire legal Americans that expect things like fair working conditions and other such nonsense when you can get illegal "day labor" for pennies on the dollar.
GT,
I wouldn't call it that. I'm sure that there is a technical govermental-type phrase for it. But I agree. The middle class is disappearing and until something DIRECTLY affects the rich, nothing changes.
I sit 30' from a man that is worth billions. Another guy in this office just built a $6m house. Their lifestyle is so far removed from most folks that they can not imagine the struggle that we have to go through.
My wife and I make about $65k a year and we have to pinch pennies sometimes.
I wouldn't call it that. I'm sure that there is a technical govermental-type phrase for it. But I agree. The middle class is disappearing and until something DIRECTLY affects the rich, nothing changes.
I sit 30' from a man that is worth billions. Another guy in this office just built a $6m house. Their lifestyle is so far removed from most folks that they can not imagine the struggle that we have to go through.
My wife and I make about $65k a year and we have to pinch pennies sometimes.
Biker
Your figures about illegals in prison is close (25% as of 2002 CA DOJ figures, who knows now), and I don't doubt the $56k may be legitamate. What you are talking about is an "ocean" of immigration when Idaho is a thousand miles away from the water. I live in the Los Angeles area, in the middle of the "ocean." Trust me, the ocean is going nowhere.
My brother, we worship the same God, we bleed the same color of blood. There are a lot of young men and women of different ethnicities in Iraq sheeding their blood so we can sit here and have an intelligent discussion about our country's problems. Please don't ever hurt someone because of where they were born. A hundred years from now I would like to continue our conversation in a land even better than the US.
Now, I must go make a dent on my lawn, or the wife will shed my blood.
Your figures about illegals in prison is close (25% as of 2002 CA DOJ figures, who knows now), and I don't doubt the $56k may be legitamate. What you are talking about is an "ocean" of immigration when Idaho is a thousand miles away from the water. I live in the Los Angeles area, in the middle of the "ocean." Trust me, the ocean is going nowhere.
My brother, we worship the same God, we bleed the same color of blood. There are a lot of young men and women of different ethnicities in Iraq sheeding their blood so we can sit here and have an intelligent discussion about our country's problems. Please don't ever hurt someone because of where they were born. A hundred years from now I would like to continue our conversation in a land even better than the US.
Now, I must go make a dent on my lawn, or the wife will shed my blood.
On a comment above, Joseph and Mary were citizens of Judea.
Headless, I agree that we don't want to permanently kick out all illegals. However, I think they should have to go back home to pick up their work visa before returning. I don't think that is too much to ask. I don't like the idea of just having them stand in line to get a card and all is forgiven. I think we should expand legal immigration, but we should be hard line on illegal immigration.
Headless, I agree that we don't want to permanently kick out all illegals. However, I think they should have to go back home to pick up their work visa before returning. I don't think that is too much to ask. I don't like the idea of just having them stand in line to get a card and all is forgiven. I think we should expand legal immigration, but we should be hard line on illegal immigration.
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