Cowhide Cliff
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- Aug 6, 2015
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This^^^I have multiples of both. Neither scratches the other's itch, if you get my drift. Different guns for different purposes.
This^^^I have multiples of both. Neither scratches the other's itch, if you get my drift. Different guns for different purposes.
Dave, if memory serves (and mine doesn't always), the last time I was inside an Uberti, the hand and bolt had music wire springs, rather than flat leaves. I was in there to convert it to a traditional 4 click hammer, from the really clever retreating firing pin 3 click.I'm not positive but I believe Uberti uses the original Colt-type flat springs.
Thanks for that -- I was going by a parts diagram. Makes a lot of sense too.Dave, if memory serves (and mine doesn't always), the last time I was inside an Uberti, the hand and bolt had music wire springs, rather than flat leaves. I was in there to convert it to a traditional 4 click hammer, from the really clever retreating firing pin 3 click.
It sort of depends what your end use will be. If you plan to hunt, go with the Ruger so you can use hotter loads. If all you want is target shooting, with maybe a little hunting mixed in, the Uberti would be just fine. I dfon't really see the need to load a .45C hotter than 1000 fps, you're launching a heavy bullet with a lot of inertia and putting 250 grains out of one at those speeds is getting close to magnum level, recoil will be worse and it becomes less fun. I have three .45 Colt firearms, a 5-1/2" Uberti 1873 SAA clone, a 4" S&W M25-5 and a 20" Henry Big Boy rifle. Using the same loads in all three gives me just over 1000 fps in the longer barreled rifle and it's no trouble grouping them in the middle of a target at 100 yards, and they really clang a steel gong at that distance. The handguns are great out to 50 yards, with MV's around 850-900 fps, and I can shoot all day without hurting my increasingly arthritic hands. My .41 magnum, although much kinder than the .44, still loses its charm after three or four cylinder loads at 1250 fps.I’ve been reading a lot of different articles and forums that some of the Taylor’s and company and uberti revolvers can handle up to 1000fps. Then I read others that say don’t go over 900fps or standard or barely over standard pressure. I’m debating on paying $709 for a Blackhawk vs $598 for a Taylor’s and company/ uberti both 5.5” barrels. I will probably never shoot any high velocity stuff through a revolver since I use my Rossi r92 for easier hot load shooting. A big part of me says just get the ruger just in case I ever would need to go hot (again I don’t think that would happen). The other side is save the money and just get the clone. Thoughts or knowledge I’m missing? I’ve had to put this purchase on hold but am back in the market and now second guessing my original ruger thought.
There's a 3rd option we don't talk about much and I usually forget about it. You can have your cake and eat it too with the Uberti Callahan/Cimarron Bad Boy. Colt style action, adjustable sights. It's just not a .45Colt but a .44Mag. It won't take monster masher loads but it has an 1860 grip frame and is also only slightly heavier than an SAA replica.
Really had little trouble with mine. I've had such apart before, but it had been awhile. The mainspring is captured by the lower frame, and it is possible to crank things back together with the (whole lot of) frame screws.Thanks for that -- I was going by a parts diagram. Makes a lot of sense too.
I really don't like exploring the innards of a SAA beyond changing the mainspring. They can be a bear to put back together again!
The short answer is No.My last question though is there anything wrong using standard loads in the ruger?
I’ve been reading a lot of different articles and forums that some of the Taylor’s and company and uberti revolvers can handle up to 1000fps. Then I read others that say don’t go over 900fps
Great point about the pressure! Really appreciate the info and comparison photosFirst off, do not refer to velocity when determining how strong a revolver is.
It is PRESSURE that blows up a revolver, not velocity.
Standard SAAMI MAX pressure for 45 Colt is 14,000 psi, if I remember correctly.
That is the maximum pressure that most over the counter 45 Colt ammunition is loaded for.
14,000 psi can be achieved with many different combinations of bullet weight and powder charge.
Conversely, 900 fps or 1,000 fps might easily exceed the SAAMI Max pressure for 45 Colt, again, depending on the combination of bullet weight and powder charge.
By the way, there is no official SAAMI spec for 45 Colt Plus P, it does not exist.
Study this image. Left to right, the three cylinders in this photo are Uberti Cattleman, Ruger 'original model' Vaquero, and 2nd Generation Colt.
All three are chambered for 45 Colt.
Pay particular attention to how much thicker the chamber walls are at the the narrowest point with the Ruger vs the other two cylinders. A modern Ruger Blackhawk cylinder will have the same dimensions.
That is why a Ruger can handle higher pressure cartridges than an original Colt or modern replica.
Note, all three of these cylinders are perfectly acceptable for standard, over the counter 45 Colt ammunition.
Even though there is no such thing as 45 Colt Plus P, for years reloading manuals had recipes for 'Ruger Only' loads that were safe to fire in a Ruger, but not safe to fire in a Colt or clone.
By the way, because of the extra steel between chambers, the Ruger cylinder is slightly larger in diameter than a Colt or clone cylinder. Because of this, a Ruger Blackhawk frame is slightly larger than a Colt to accommodate the larger cylinder.
Regarding springs. Here are the lockwork parts to a 2nd Gen Colt. Notice the thin leaf spring attached to the hand.
While I am at it, notice how thin the tip of the trigger is. It is easy to break off the tip of the trigger, which is why one should NEVER load a Colt with six rounds with a live round under the hammer. Accidents can and do happen.
Yes, Colt springs do occasionally break. The most common part to break is the split trigger/bolt spring at the top of this photo. The broken bolt is less common. However I have Colts that are over 100 years old and they are still going strong with their original springs.
Here is a Colt Bisley made in the 1880s. All the springs are still intact.
Here is a Ruger Blackhawk completely disassembled. Not a leaf spring to be seen, all the springs are either coil or wire springs. Much less likely to break than leaf springs. By the way, the thin, vertical part attached to the trigger is the transfer bar. All Rugers have had a transfer bar for many years, making them completely safe to completely load six rounds with a live round under the hammer.
By the way, here is an Uberti Cattleman with a wire spring substituted for the split trigger/bolt leaf spring. I don't even remember why I put the wire spring in a long time ago, but I did.
I marked my heavier Ruger loads with a sharpie line across the case head when I had a Uberti and an old Vaquero. The Uberti is gone, and the Vaquero, the Blackhawk and the Super Redhawk .454 have a bit more consistency pressure-wise, so I don’t mark cases anymore. (I don’t max stuff out anyway, but thinking about it I guess it is good to differentiate between loads somehow.)Mixing up ammo between Colt-type guns and Rugers is easily made into a non-issue. I rarely use the same bullets, so they are easily recognizable at a glance. Typically 200-250gr RNFP's or 255gr SWC's in the Colt type guns and +300gr bullets in the Rugers. The Ruger loads often won't even fit a Colt cylinder. I also usually put the Ruger loads in a box marked as such. The Colt plinker loads roll off the Dillon by the hundreds.
Makes sense to me. Since 99.9% of us don’t have the means to measure the pressure of our hand loads; going by the books, reading chronographs, looking for excess pressure signs upon extraction/examining cases and “the feel” as it is fired is pretty much all we have.I have 5 45 Colts, An OM Blackhawk, a NM Blackhawk Flattop on the medium frame, a Colt 2nd gen SAA, and a pair of Uberti Remington 1890's. When I make up my test load, which never seems to end, I load the m for the Colts and Remingtons, but ALWAYS shoot the1st test in the Flattop. If it feels good it moves on to the other three. If it feels like it might be too much for the Colt, I leave it for the Flattop or the OM. The OM Blackhawk gets the heavy load for hunting. It's probably a flawed way of doing things but it's the way I do it.