SAA colt vs ruger 45colt?

[Cowhide Cliff]

I have multiples of both. Neither scratches the other's itch, if you get my drift. Different guns for different purposes.

This^^^

 

[halfmoonclip]

I'm not positive but I believe Uberti uses the original Colt-type flat springs.

Dave, if memory serves (and mine doesn't always), the last time I was inside an Uberti, the hand and bolt had music wire springs, rather than flat leaves. I was in there to convert it to a traditional 4 click hammer, from the really clever retreating firing pin 3 click.
I've had Old and New Vaqueros, and a Beretta Stampede with a transfer bar. The Old Vaquero felt clubby, and the transfer bar guns just didn't work like the originals.
For the OP, it comes down to what you really want to do; a reliable tool, or a functioning piece of history. I've made my choice for the latter, and feed it Trailboss.
The hair-on-fire loads are reserved for the .44 Mags.
Moon

 

[CraigC]

There's a 3rd option we don't talk about much and I usually forget about it. You can have your cake and eat it too with the Uberti Callahan/Cimarron Bad Boy. Colt style action, adjustable sights. It's just not a .45Colt but a .44Mag. It won't take monster masher loads but it has an 1860 grip frame and is also only slightly heavier than an SAA replica.

 

[Dave DeLaurant]

Dave, if memory serves (and mine doesn't always), the last time I was inside an Uberti, the hand and bolt had music wire springs, rather than flat leaves. I was in there to convert it to a traditional 4 click hammer, from the really clever retreating firing pin 3 click.

Thanks for that -- I was going by a parts diagram. Makes a lot of sense too.

I really don't like exploring the innards of a SAA beyond changing the mainspring. They can be a bear to put back together again!

 

[Mark_Mark]

Get Both… because your just going too.

It’s an Addiction and the only cure is Hot .45 Colt lead hitting Pumpkins filled with water or tanaright

 

[bannockburn]

I have an older Ruger Vaquero and a Beretta Stampede. Probably shoot the Ruger a hair better than the Beretta but I still like them both. They are well built, feel great in my hand, and are quite accurate... as long as I do my part!

 

[bangswitch]

I’ve been reading a lot of different articles and forums that some of the Taylor’s and company and uberti revolvers can handle up to 1000fps. Then I read others that say don’t go over 900fps or standard or barely over standard pressure. I’m debating on paying $709 for a Blackhawk vs $598 for a Taylor’s and company/ uberti both 5.5” barrels. I will probably never shoot any high velocity stuff through a revolver since I use my Rossi r92 for easier hot load shooting. A big part of me says just get the ruger just in case I ever would need to go hot (again I don’t think that would happen). The other side is save the money and just get the clone. Thoughts or knowledge I’m missing? I’ve had to put this purchase on hold but am back in the market and now second guessing my original ruger thought.

It sort of depends what your end use will be. If you plan to hunt, go with the Ruger so you can use hotter loads. If all you want is target shooting, with maybe a little hunting mixed in, the Uberti would be just fine. I dfon't really see the need to load a .45C hotter than 1000 fps, you're launching a heavy bullet with a lot of inertia and putting 250 grains out of one at those speeds is getting close to magnum level, recoil will be worse and it becomes less fun. I have three .45 Colt firearms, a 5-1/2" Uberti 1873 SAA clone, a 4" S&W M25-5 and a 20" Henry Big Boy rifle. Using the same loads in all three gives me just over 1000 fps in the longer barreled rifle and it's no trouble grouping them in the middle of a target at 100 yards, and they really clang a steel gong at that distance. The handguns are great out to 50 yards, with MV's around 850-900 fps, and I can shoot all day without hurting my increasingly arthritic hands. My .41 magnum, although much kinder than the .44, still loses its charm after three or four cylinder loads at 1250 fps.

 

[doubleh]

There's a 3rd option we don't talk about much and I usually forget about it. You can have your cake and eat it too with the Uberti Callahan/Cimarron Bad Boy. Colt style action, adjustable sights. It's just not a .45Colt but a .44Mag. It won't take monster masher loads but it has an 1860 grip frame and is also only slightly heavier than an SAA replica.

Taylor & Company has basically the same gun. The difference is it has the traditional SAA frame. I have one and it is very nice. I have never shot it as a magnum and have no intention of every doing so. It is pleasant to shoot with 44 special loads and that was it's intended purpose when I bought it. I really like the 1860 Army grips and still wonder why they were shortened on the 1883 guns. It also has a very nice trigger with no additional help needed.

 

[halfmoonclip]

Thanks for that -- I was going by a parts diagram. Makes a lot of sense too.

I really don't like exploring the innards of a SAA beyond changing the mainspring. They can be a bear to put back together again!

Really had little trouble with mine. I've had such apart before, but it had been awhile. The mainspring is captured by the lower frame, and it is possible to crank things back together with the (whole lot of) frame screws.
Perhaps taking the frame parts apart would be easier than just changing the mainspring?
Moon

 

[drobs]

Pietta & Uberti 1873 Clones for me. Modern Blackhawks just don't scratch that itch for me. If I'm going to go that modern, I want and do own a Redhawk.

I've been contemplating selling my 5 1873 clones off with the goal of buying 2 original Colts though.

Pietta 45 Colt - so shinny so pretty!


Uberti 357mags - by the way 357 magnum has some big standard chamber pressures and muzzle velocities.

 

[Lo-Profile]

I have both, shoot the same ammo in both.
My uberti is a 7.5" 1875 Outlaw Remington clone

 

[Csinn]

I think I’ll probably go the ruger route. I really like their products and I’d hate to accidentally overload a SAA specially when shooting with my son. I am very careful but still human and having multiple types of ammo out shooting just is a risk with an underframed firearm. Might get an SAA down the road but I do want to hunt deer with the one I get. My last question though is there anything wrong using standard loads in the ruger? I really appreciate all the insight

 

[Gary A]

My last question though is there anything wrong using standard loads in the ruger?

The short answer is No.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

I’ve been reading a lot of different articles and forums that some of the Taylor’s and company and uberti revolvers can handle up to 1000fps. Then I read others that say don’t go over 900fps

First off, do not refer to velocity when determining how strong a revolver is.

It is PRESSURE that blows up a revolver, not velocity.

Standard SAAMI MAX pressure for 45 Colt is 14,000 psi, if I remember correctly.

That is the maximum pressure that most over the counter 45 Colt ammunition is loaded for.

14,000 psi can be achieved with many different combinations of bullet weight and powder charge.

Conversely, 900 fps or 1,000 fps might easily exceed the SAAMI Max pressure for 45 Colt, again, depending on the combination of bullet weight and powder charge.

By the way, there is no official SAAMI spec for 45 Colt Plus P, it does not exist.





Study this image. Left to right, the three cylinders in this photo are Uberti Cattleman, Ruger 'original model' Vaquero, and 2nd Generation Colt.

All three are chambered for 45 Colt.

Pay particular attention to how much thicker the chamber walls are at the the narrowest point with the Ruger vs the other two cylinders. A modern Ruger Blackhawk cylinder will have the same dimensions.

That is why a Ruger can handle higher pressure cartridges than an original Colt or modern replica.

Note, all three of these cylinders are perfectly acceptable for standard, over the counter 45 Colt ammunition.

Even though there is no such thing as 45 Colt Plus P, for years reloading manuals had recipes for 'Ruger Only' loads that were safe to fire in a Ruger, but not safe to fire in a Colt or clone.

By the way, because of the extra steel between chambers, the Ruger cylinder is slightly larger in diameter than a Colt or clone cylinder. Because of this, a Ruger Blackhawk frame is slightly larger than a Colt to accommodate the larger cylinder.




Regarding springs. Here are the lockwork parts to a 2nd Gen Colt. Notice the thin leaf spring attached to the hand.

While I am at it, notice how thin the tip of the trigger is. It is easy to break off the tip of the trigger, which is why one should NEVER load a Colt with six rounds with a live round under the hammer. Accidents can and do happen.

Yes, Colt springs do occasionally break. The most common part to break is the split trigger/bolt spring at the top of this photo. The broken bolt is less common. However I have Colts that are over 100 years old and they are still going strong with their original springs.

Here is a Colt Bisley made in the 1880s. All the springs are still intact.

Here is a Ruger Blackhawk completely disassembled. Not a leaf spring to be seen, all the springs are either coil or wire springs. Much less likely to break than leaf springs. By the way, the thin, vertical part attached to the trigger is the transfer bar. All Rugers have had a transfer bar for many years, making them completely safe to completely load six rounds with a live round under the hammer.

By the way, here is an Uberti Cattleman with a wire spring substituted for the split trigger/bolt leaf spring. I don't even remember why I put the wire spring in a long time ago, but I did.

 

[CraigC]

Mixing up ammo between Colt-type guns and Rugers is easily made into a non-issue. I rarely use the same bullets, so they are easily recognizable at a glance. Typically 200-250gr RNFP's or 255gr SWC's in the Colt type guns and +300gr bullets in the Rugers. The Ruger loads often won't even fit a Colt cylinder. I also usually put the Ruger loads in a box marked as such. The Colt plinker loads roll off the Dillon by the hundreds.

 

[Csinn]

First off, do not refer to velocity when determining how strong a revolver is.

It is PRESSURE that blows up a revolver, not velocity.

Standard SAAMI MAX pressure for 45 Colt is 14,000 psi, if I remember correctly.

That is the maximum pressure that most over the counter 45 Colt ammunition is loaded for.

14,000 psi can be achieved with many different combinations of bullet weight and powder charge.

Conversely, 900 fps or 1,000 fps might easily exceed the SAAMI Max pressure for 45 Colt, again, depending on the combination of bullet weight and powder charge.

By the way, there is no official SAAMI spec for 45 Colt Plus P, it does not exist.





Study this image. Left to right, the three cylinders in this photo are Uberti Cattleman, Ruger 'original model' Vaquero, and 2nd Generation Colt.

All three are chambered for 45 Colt.

Pay particular attention to how much thicker the chamber walls are at the the narrowest point with the Ruger vs the other two cylinders. A modern Ruger Blackhawk cylinder will have the same dimensions.

That is why a Ruger can handle higher pressure cartridges than an original Colt or modern replica.

Note, all three of these cylinders are perfectly acceptable for standard, over the counter 45 Colt ammunition.

Even though there is no such thing as 45 Colt Plus P, for years reloading manuals had recipes for 'Ruger Only' loads that were safe to fire in a Ruger, but not safe to fire in a Colt or clone.

By the way, because of the extra steel between chambers, the Ruger cylinder is slightly larger in diameter than a Colt or clone cylinder. Because of this, a Ruger Blackhawk frame is slightly larger than a Colt to accommodate the larger cylinder.




Regarding springs. Here are the lockwork parts to a 2nd Gen Colt. Notice the thin leaf spring attached to the hand.

While I am at it, notice how thin the tip of the trigger is. It is easy to break off the tip of the trigger, which is why one should NEVER load a Colt with six rounds with a live round under the hammer. Accidents can and do happen.

Yes, Colt springs do occasionally break. The most common part to break is the split trigger/bolt spring at the top of this photo. The broken bolt is less common. However I have Colts that are over 100 years old and they are still going strong with their original springs.

Here is a Colt Bisley made in the 1880s. All the springs are still intact.

Here is a Ruger Blackhawk completely disassembled. Not a leaf spring to be seen, all the springs are either coil or wire springs. Much less likely to break than leaf springs. By the way, the thin, vertical part attached to the trigger is the transfer bar. All Rugers have had a transfer bar for many years, making them completely safe to completely load six rounds with a live round under the hammer.

By the way, here is an Uberti Cattleman with a wire spring substituted for the split trigger/bolt leaf spring. I don't even remember why I put the wire spring in a long time ago, but I did.

Great point about the pressure! Really appreciate the info and comparison photos

 

[Ugly Sauce]

I don't think 1,000fps with a 250 or 255 grain bullet is getting carried away in an Italian gun. Probably not good to start kissing 1100 or 1200fps. I load my EL Patron to 1000fps, but only for use when in the woods/wilderness/mountains. Aside from making sure they hit the same as my normal .45 Colt loads, and making sure they eject effortlessly, I don't plink or target practice with them. In fact, I only have 18 loaded up. I guess I would call them my "field loads". And hopefully, I'll never need them. Just a little extra "insurance".

I understand the ammo "mix-up" thing. I have two "Trapdoors", a rifle and carbine, and a JM Marlin 1895. I only load black powder in my .45-70 cartridges, and that's what the Marlin shoots too. (although she gets 80 grains instead of 70) Even though I'm not into making a Marlin into a .458 Winchester Magnum, I don't want ANY smokeless loads to find their way into one of my Model 1873 Springfields.

 

[Riomouse911]

Driftwood always has the good stuff, thanks!

As several have posted, they are different feeling/different shooting guns. My old .45 Colt Uberti Cattleman was a great SAA clone, I shot it in SASS matches many moons ago.

I also bought a .45 Colt Ruger old Vaquero and also shot it in SASS matches. The Uberti felt better in my hands but I preferred the smooth cocking and nicer trigger of the Vaquero, so I was a better shot with the Ruger. (YMMV) I ultimately gave the Uberti to a friend when he moved to Idaho and kept the Vaquero.

Nowadays my eyes and the silvery fixed sights of the Vaquero don’t meld together like they used to, so I bought a 4 5/8” .45 Colt Blackhawk. (I would have preferred a 5.5” barrel, but the price was right on this gun!) This is the gun I plink about the most with now when a .45 Colt is on the docket.




Both are great guns, you can’t go wrong with either one.

Let us know what you buy, and how it shoots for you when you get it out to play.

Stay safe.

 

[Riomouse911]

Mixing up ammo between Colt-type guns and Rugers is easily made into a non-issue. I rarely use the same bullets, so they are easily recognizable at a glance. Typically 200-250gr RNFP's or 255gr SWC's in the Colt type guns and +300gr bullets in the Rugers. The Ruger loads often won't even fit a Colt cylinder. I also usually put the Ruger loads in a box marked as such. The Colt plinker loads roll off the Dillon by the hundreds.

I marked my heavier Ruger loads with a sharpie line across the case head when I had a Uberti and an old Vaquero. The Uberti is gone, and the Vaquero, the Blackhawk and the Super Redhawk .454 have a bit more consistency pressure-wise, so I don’t mark cases anymore. (I don’t max stuff out anyway, but thinking about it I guess it is good to differentiate between loads somehow.)

Stay safe.

 

[JeffG]

Always liked Rugers. Colts are very nice no doubt...

 

[dickydalton]

I've looked at the Italians but never bought one yet. For normal fun my New Vaquero is a sweet 45 and for nasty my Bisley 45C/45ACP handles hotter loads.

 

[Tallball]

My Italians are range toys. They're very fun range toys. I like the balance and feel.

The Rugers can be range toys, too. Mine have adjustable sights, so I'm more accurate with them as the distances get longer. Not so much because the sights can be adjusted, but because they're so much larger and easier to see.

The Rugers are kind of more workhorses. They have appropriate sights for hunting, and they're sturdier.

I like them both and wouldn't want to give up either.

The only one I ever bought new. I use the 45acp cylinder a lot.

Ruger Blackhawk 45 Convertible

• Tallball
• Apr 20, 2020

 

[King Medallion]

I have 5 45 Colts, An OM Blackhawk, a NM Blackhawk Flattop on the medium frame, a Colt 2nd gen SAA, and a pair of Uberti Remington 1890's. When I make up my test load, which never seems to end, I load them for the Colts and Remingtons, but ALWAYS shoot the1st test in the Flattop. If it feels good it moves on to the other three. If it feels like it might be too much for the Colt, I leave it for the Flattop or the OM. The OM Blackhawk gets the heavy loads for hunting. It's probably a flawed way of doing things but it's the way I do it.

 

[Riomouse911]

I have 5 45 Colts, An OM Blackhawk, a NM Blackhawk Flattop on the medium frame, a Colt 2nd gen SAA, and a pair of Uberti Remington 1890's. When I make up my test load, which never seems to end, I load the m for the Colts and Remingtons, but ALWAYS shoot the1st test in the Flattop. If it feels good it moves on to the other three. If it feels like it might be too much for the Colt, I leave it for the Flattop or the OM. The OM Blackhawk gets the heavy load for hunting. It's probably a flawed way of doing things but it's the way I do it.

Makes sense to me. Since 99.9% of us don’t have the means to measure the pressure of our hand loads; going by the books, reading chronographs, looking for excess pressure signs upon extraction/examining cases and “the feel” as it is fired is pretty much all we have.

Stay safe.

 

[BobWright]

My take on this has to do with ammunition, 900 vs 1000 f.p.s. Its not the velocity but rather the pressure, to some extent.

Some powders can easily hit 1000 f.p.s. (assuming a 250~255 gr. bullet) while staying within reasonable pressure levels, while others are at their peak at the 900 f.p.s. level. Powders such as HP-38 vs. H4227 can reach hivh velocity, but at different pressure levels. And the recoil level difference between 900 and 1000 is slight.

But my idea is that when wanting magnum performance, use magnum guns and ammunition.

Bob Wright