Sad story,what would have you guys done ?

[S&W 910]

Sex Assault Story for Valentine's Day


couple ambushed; woman stripped, raped

--NY Daily News


NY- Three teens who allegedly ambushed a young couple in Bay Shore, stripped the victims naked and took turns sodomizing the woman while the man was forced to watch at gunpoint will be arraigned today in Suffolk County Court, prosecutors said.

Terrance Terrell, 17, Douglas Payton, 17, and Reginald Dugue, 18, all Bay Shore High School students, were all arrested Feb. 2 and indicted on a slew of sex and robbery charges stemming from the Dec. 3 attack on South Saxon Ave., authorities said.

The men each face two charges of committing a criminal sexual act for forcible oral sex, a first-degree rape charge and five felony robbery charges, prosecutors said.

Each faces up to 170 years in prison if convicted.

"They roughed up the boyfriend before all of the sex acts," said Assistant District Attorney Kate Wagner. "They got him under control so he couldn't try to help her. And then he was forced to watch."

The male victim, 21, was pistol-whipped and "stomped" after the couple was pulled from his SUV about 1:30 a.m., Wagner said, adding that he and the woman, 23, were drinking coffee at a dead end overlooking the Great South Bay.

"It's a lovely area, right on the water," Wagner said. "They had grabbed two coffees at a 7-Eleven, and they were just sitting there with coffees. No booze. Nothing."

Both victims are life-long residents of the area, she said. They are not being identified because of the sex crimes.

Wagner gave this account of the events:

The suspects pulled into the dead end in Dugue's car, behind the victims, then Dugue flashed his brights into the car before the three masked men appeared, two tapping on the windows with guns.

The victims left the vehicle, were stripped "completely naked" and the woman was dragged into Dugue's car and forced to perform a sex act on one of the men while Payton held a gun to the boyfriend's head outside.

She was then dragged to the tailgate of the victim's SUV, where she was raped by a second man and forced to perform a sex act on him. At that point, Dugue spoke to the boyfriend, asking him if he had sex with his girlfriend that day.

"You should have. Watch this," Dugue said, according to Wagner.

"Then he is forced to watch his girlfriend, on her knees, performing oral sex with a gun to her head," Wagner said.

After the ordeal, the couple was left rummaging for clothes and running for help, the prosecutor said.

Wagner said the three suspects gave detailed confessions that corroborated the two victims' accounts.

Dugue did not partake in the sex acts, but by law is responsible because he aided the others, Wagner said.

Payton's mother and attorney, James Pascarella, declined to comment. Lawyers for Dugue and Terrell were not available for comment.

 

[swampsniper]

For one thing, I would have had an S&W M-59 really close to my right hand, and I wouldn't have been anywhere near NY in the first place.

 

[S&W 910]

i rarely read stories like this with people that carry.

i've notice that carring not only gives you the ability to defend yourself,but more importantly it makes you much more aware of your surroundings

in that situation the minute a car pulled up behind me i would have my gun on my lap and car started and driving away in seconds.

if i was boxed in i would not have let them walk up on me.i would have gotten out of my car ,gun in hand concealed by my side or behind my back sighting everyone up and told them to move thier car.

thats not a garuantee things would have went smoothly,but i would have been in a better position to react and defend myself and girlfreind and no way would i have allowed myself to be taken hostage

 

[jd25q]

You cannot surrender to armed assailants, armed or not. Whatever happens next wont be good. I say, if unarmed, duck and drive away.

Hopefully the two 17 year olds will be tried as adults. If that's the case I expect they'll all experience an oddly familiar incident at Rikers!

 

[merk]

They need to be shot like the animals they are.



That storys terrible.

 

[Lupinus]

slammed my car into reverse and ran them over and got the hell out of there

if I had a gun I'd likly be dead with them but Im not gonna sit there and watch a guy rape my girl friend

 

[ctdonath]

Peace thru superior firepower.
The best defense is a good offense.
Never negotiate.
Violence of action.
Don't be there.

Response depends heavily on exactly what happened when. Given what little we know...
Yelling "get down!" and forcing my wife's head under the dashboard would be a start, promptly followed by stomping on the gas. Don't let them get close, run 'em down if possible, aggressive rapid chaotic movement should throw them off balance and earn escape time. Being shot at is possible, but I doubt they can accurately hit a moving target - and it's better odds than letting 'em shove the muzzle into my temple. They may have ~100grain projectiles, but I'm in a gazillion grain projectile.

The only time I'd submit is when they fully have the drop on me in a can't-miss kinda way. Even then, wait & watch for the earliest opportunity for an explosive response & counterattack.

Upshot: don't sit there and take it. When condition red is reached, the only appropriate action is immediate and overwhelming violence.

 

[Geno]

I'd rather die defending!

I could not and would NOT sit back and allow this! I predict that the relationship is over! Never go off to secluded areas, not even when carrying. It's just needless risk. But, once confronted, fight like an animal to the death--their death. You're going to trust some criminal-freak with a gun to determine your life?! And trust that they'll let you live?! This is a good case for death penalty.

Edited to add:

This is nothing new, in fact it was horridly common in Michigan back in the very late 60s and through most of the early 70s. It was the very reason that my parents told all 5 of the kids,

"If you ever want privacy (even though we do not approve) just lock the family room door. But, do NOT ever risk your health by going parking out on state land!"

Doc2005

 

[Oldtimer]

Extremely tough call, since the story didn't "paint" the entire picture of exactly what took place.

I hate to say that the outcome was "good", since both victims are still alive, but.....

In my own mind, I couldn't justify being "passive" during a situation such as that. There MAY have been options that would have ended up working. That's why we all need to exercise that thing that's inside our skulls, and to try to think as clearly as possible under stress! We also need to make a "reality check" as often as possible, and to keep ourselves "reasonably" safe wherever we go.

While a firearm MIGHT have made a big difference in that situation, it might have turned to a deadly situation for both of those victims.

Many of you think FIREARM as the "ultimate" tool. You need to broaden your views, for a VEHICLE might be the best "weapon" to use in similar situations!
Think about using distractions! Think about "flight" as the only available way to stay safe!
Just don't lock into the "lock and load" theory of being well armed....for your BRAIN is probably your BEST weapon to have "locked and loaded"!

 

[Preacherman]

I'm sorry to have to say this, but the initial responsibility for this tragedy rests with the folks who parked where they should not have parked. If they'd gone somewhere safer, they wouldn't have been attacked. And yes, I know there are those who will howl that decent folks have the right to park anywhere, anytime, and that criminals should not be allowed to dictate our actions - but this is the real world, OK? Reality sometimes bites!

 

[tellner]

I'm sorry to have to say this, but the initial responsibility for this tragedy rests with the folks who parked where they should not have parked. If they'd gone somewhere safer, they wouldn't have been attacked. And yes, I know there are those who will howl that decent folks have the right to park anywhere, anytime, and that criminals should not be allowed to dictate our actions - but this is the real world, OK? Reality sometimes bites!

No. Hell no. A thousand times NO!

Let me say it in small, simple words so that there is no doubt.

The guy who does the crime is the guilty one.

Maybe the victim could have done something better or differently. Maybe you or I would have done something different. It doesn't matter. The ones who pointed guns and raped that poor girl are the only ones responsible for the crime. They're the ones who should be hanged head down over a slow fire while the victims' families get creative with knives and pliers. Nobody else.

The thief is the one who steals. The murderer is the one who murders. The rapist is the one who rapes.

Frankly I couldn't care less about your credentials, your experience or your status as moderator here. If you excuse vicious criminal behavior by blaming the victim for it you are 100% on the side of evil on this one.

 

[dpesec]

Hey, you're both right.
The guy who parked in a "Dead end street" was off his rocker, no way out. That set the stage for the animals to strike. I suspect this was because he was in condition white.

If there had been a way out, a 3000lb weapon should inflict massive damage on the animals. I do not understand how the animals could have gotten firearms, afterall doesn't NYC prevent you from having them in public?

,

 

[Arc-Lite]

ones self responsibility, and choices before the fact, is one part of this story.... ones consequences and guilt is another.

 

[ctdonath]

If they'd gone somewhere safer, they wouldn't have been attacked.

Respectfully disagree.

If they went somewhere that screamed "DANGER!", yes. Don't wander down dark alleys in the bad side of town at night while loudly counting thru a wad of $100 bills.

"It's a lovely area, right on the water," no. Humans - especially romantically involved ones - have a natural disposition to pursue pleasant semi-seculded areas. Many here are outdoorsy & introverted types, preferring to "get away" - preferring areas which, unfortunately by their secluded nature, tend to be ideal mugging zones.

There comes a point where one decides to pursue happiness as one sees fit, and not live in constant fear of attack. Don't be stupid, of course, but I'm not going to limit myself to well-lit crowded areas, passing up beauty & pleasure for fear of harm.

"He who goes unarmed in paradise had better be sure that that is where he is." The lesson is to be armed, not to not go into paradise.

 

[sturmruger]

If you are not armed with a firearm then they should have used the next best weapon they had and that was their vehicle. While they would run the risk of getting shot it would have been better then the alternative.

 

[Preacherman]

Tellner and others who disagree with my post above: I'm sorry, but on this one we're poles apart, and will stay that way.

As far as I'm concerned, if you put yourself in a position where harm may come to you, you're the first link in the chain that leads to that harm. Sure, sometimes this is inadvertent - for example, if I stop at an intersection with a runaway vehicle without brakes coming up behind me, there's not much I can do about this, and no way I could have any forewarning. However, when it comes to stopping in a secluded area where crime is a known factor, I'm sorry, but you're on your own. You really should know better!

I agree that the guilt, as such, belongs to the criminals, not to the victims: but if the victims put themselves in a position where criminals can prey on them, they're basically asking for trouble. This doesn't make them guilty - just stupid. Basic common sense says that one should not make oneself a potential victim if at all possible. At the very least, if one is going to go into a crime-prone or at-risk area, one should be armed against the possibility, and aware of what's going on around one!

Those who argue otherwise are in the same position as those who argue that a woman bears no responsibility for rape if she wears revealing clothing, behaves in a sluttish manner, and goes where men who don't respect women are known to hang out. Sure, she has the "right of consent" - but if she behaves in such a manner that she implies availability, she must surely be aware that there are those who do not and will not respect her "right", and will behave accordingly.

Nature hasn't changed in umpteen thousand years. Put yourself in a position where you could be hurt, and sooner or later the odds are going to catch up with you. That's life.

 

[TallPine]

I agree that the guilt, as such, belongs to the criminals, not to the victims: but if the victims put themselves in a position where criminals can prey on them, they're basically asking for trouble. This doesn't make them guilty - just stupid. Basic common sense says that one should not make oneself a potential victim if at all possible. At the very least, if one is going to go into a crime-prone or at-risk area, one should be armed against the possibility, and aware of what's going on around one!

Anyplace on earth is an at-risk area. Remember the similar crime in Wichita KS ... the victims were all murdered as well except for one woman who was shot in the head and left to die but survived and walked naked and bleeding in the snow to get help. I supposed they shouldn't have lived in Wichita ....?

What about ATM machines? That's pretty risky - you should never use one. (incidentally, I don't). And stay out of convenience stores and fast food joints, too

And don't ever go camping or hiking ... there's bears and tigers and perverted mountaineers out there

Heck, I live in a secluded area (except a lot of folks around here don't even lock their doors), so I guess I am just asking to be a victim...?
(or is that called "hunting over bait"...? )

I agree about being armed and not being a victim, but that goes for everywhere all the time. Actually, if one is not to be a victim, really good advice is stay out of anyplace that requires you to be unarmed.

 

[xjmox14x]

If I were carrying, I would have opened fire immediately after they told us to get undressed. If they just wanted to take my money, fine. No sense in dieing over that. However, I'd personally rather me and my gf die than have her raped while I watched. And trust me, unless they hit me in the head or heart, it would take more than a few bullets to stop me.

 

[one-shot-one]

2nd post much better

Preacherman,
your 2nd post was much better than the first, because i gotta agree that the criminal is the guilty one. but yes the couple was "stupid" for putting themselves in that position.
to me this is two separate discussions though; even in an imperfect world just being dumb should not lead to this. three 17-18 year old men DECIDED to do this. anyone of them could have probably prevented it. sorry not the high road, but things like this make me want to drag these guys out into the street stone them to death Old Testament style.

 

[gt3944]

I could not and would NOT sit back and allow this! I predict that the relationship is over! Never go off to secluded areas, not even when carrying. It's just needless risk. But, once confronted, fight like an animal to the death--their death. You're going to trust some criminal-freak with a gun to determine your life?! And trust that they'll let you live?! This is a good case for death penalty.

Edited to add:

This is nothing new, in fact it was horridly common in Michigan back in the very late 60s and through most of the early 70s. It was the very reason that my parents told all 5 of the kids,

"If you ever want privacy (even though we do not approve) just lock the family room door. But, do NOT ever risk your health by going parking out on state land!"

Doc2005

I agree, I would rather die trying to protect my wife rather than let that happen to her.. I hope the inmates of what ever prison they are going to are waiting for them with open arms....

 

[Working Man]

There are worse things than death.

To those that said fight to the death I whole heartedly agree.

As I see it (and I'm sure this will sound chauvinistic to some) when in a
relationship the man is the primary figure of responsibility for safety. That
means your wife/girlfriend gets out safe and alive, even if you don't. That
also means doing every thing possible to insure you can protect her which
includes being well armed (even if its only arms and teeth), keeping your
vehicle in good repair (so your not stuck somewhere), and wisely choosing
where and when you spend you time. We have tried the sitting by the lake
at night with the romantic view and all but that just would not work for me.
I kept looking around wanting to see what every little noise was, we don't
do that any more. At night everything should be 1 step away from RED.

If you get boxed in, your vehicle becomes an expensive battering ram.... it
can be replaced. If you really want to take it seriously, move to a state that
allows a person to be able to protect themselves with a firearm or just do it
anyway. If you go to court for shooting 3 roving demons so be it, get a
good lawyer.

Fight to the death, theirs or yours but there is no giving up.... ever. If you
don't have a gun or a knife or a weapon of some sort punch, kick, gouge,
bite, dig-in, and rip out. These so called people aren't human, why should
you be.

 

[MrTwigg]

What would I do ?

Try to run the over. Fight. Die if I had to.

I'm from Long Island and Bay Shore used to be a really nice town, so nice in fact I couldn't afford to live there. I am quite familiar with the town though. As far as most folks go if you say you are from anywhere in New York it's presumed you are from N.Y.C.

Bay Shore is not part of N.Y.C. and it's in Suffolk county, the firearms laws are not as tough as the are in the city, BUT it's impossible to legally purchase a pistol without a valid permit.

Most of Long Island has gone so far downhill in the 16 years since I left I can’t believe it. I moved up to Massachusetts to get away from that kind of scum. The neighborhood where we settled went downhill shortly after moving in. The last straw was when we woke up hearing what sounded like a million sirens outside our bedroom window with an officer shouting “If you move I’m gonna shoot you in the head !”

We moved out into a very rural area three years ago and just a few months ago there was a home invasion about two minutes up the road.

I’ll be danged if I move again.

Sorry for the rant.

 

[engineer151515]

.............
Fight to the death, theirs or yours but there is no giving up.... ever. If you
don't have a gun or a knife or a weapon of some sort punch, kick, gouge,
bite, dig-in, and rip out. These so called people aren't human, why should
you be.

I've always like this wording:
Josey Wales: Now remember, things look bad and it looks like you're not gonna make it, then you gotta get mean. I mean plumb, mad-dog mean. 'Cause if you lose your head and you give up then you neither live nor win. That's just the way it is.

 

[dpesec]

To those that said fight to the death I whole heartedly agree.

As I see it (and I'm sure this will sound chauvinistic to some) when in a
relationship the man is the primary figure of responsibility for safety. That
means your wife/girlfriend gets out safe and alive, even if you don't. ...

Working Man, you and I are on the same wavelength. My GF's dad is an ex-LEO. He was a Watch Commander. When I was over for Christmas, he made me. It was dark, and I had my M9, not my normal G26. He asked me why I was packing. I told him, because I will protect Jan with with my life. Nothing will happen to her on my watch. He smiled, shook my hand. As we were walking back to the family room, he put his arm on my shoulder and said. "Honey, you have a keeper here".

 

[DontBurnMyFlag]

I cant stomach those stories. The very thought makes me insane.


I agree with a few on this forum. I would have fought to the death to defend my girlfriend. While Im fighting, stabbing, kicking and biting, she could be running away.

My hands would have been on my 4 inch blade at all times anyway. If I at least killed one of them, the chances of escape increase exponentially. The second a car started coming down the street, I would have been moving away in the first place. The second 3 masked men jumped out of a car, there would be death. No hesitation. This is what I train for.

I dont want to come off as some superhuman rambo, but Im prepared and have been preparing for multiple attacker mugging situations for years.

Also, not to go off topic, but was this race related like the wichita massacre? If it was, I doubt those criminals will get much retribution in prison.