Safe question

[Igyjastabay]

Hello. I need a gun safe for long guns. I have done my due diligence in research. 2500 budget. Sturdy safes have the most steel and that’s what I am looking for. So I was going to pull the trigger on Sturdy, when I find a local add for a guy selling safe. It a tl15 safe 52” tall made by Major Safe Co. it weighs 3250 lbs! I could buy it delivered and combo changed for 500 bucks more than I would pay for the Sturdy. The weight issue scares me a bit. Also I have never heard of this safe company. I would not have a choice about where to put it. GARAGE! I hate that idea. What would you guys do?

 

[Shimitup]

I don't know anything about that brand either. However I'd hazard a guess that it's a whole lot tougher than anything you'll find in a gun store, seems like a pretty good deal to me for a real genuine safe.

 

[Steve S.]

My smaller safe weighs about 550 pounds; it was a handful getting it to my basement (two men and a mule). I am not familiar with that manufacturer and I agree that my garage would not be my first choice for placement but close to 2 tons is a lot of safe to move around. On the upside, it will not get stolen! Good luck with the new safe.

 

[Ks5shooter]

Lag bolts through the floor or in concrete will feel heavier than the 2 ton safe and you will be able to put it where you want. Just MHO.

 

[George P]

3250 # sounds like a well-made old safe! go for it

 

[drk1]

Thanks for your questions. While it appears to be an interesting safe... I'm not so sure it would be a good (i.e. secure) safe. First, I noticed that the hinges were on the outside. Most higher quality, modern safes will have the hinges on the inside because generally they are a weak point when exposed so the bad guys can get to them. Second, I can't really see how this safe locks. I don't see a single locking bar. How many does it have? Once again, most higher quality modern safes will have at least two or three across the top and botton as well as three or four down the both sides. Third, does this safe have any fire rating? It seems to be pretty thin, relatively speaking, when looking at the thickness of the sides and top in the pictures. If you're going to put it in a garage, a fire rating might be a good idea with all the gasoline, etc. laying around in most garages. Fourth, are there any electric outlets or openings for a wire so that you can put a dehumidifier in the safe? A dehumidifier might be a good idea, especially if it's going to be in an unheated garage and subject to temperature shifts. Fifth, is there any kind of a warranty? It's been my experience that most so-call "warranties" on safes aren't worth anything, but a couple of manufacturers offer a warranty that is actually worth having. When the bad guys find your safe, the first thing they do is beat on it; then they try cutting their way in; then they might try something else but eventually they get frustrated and beat on the dial and the handle, breaking them off. So that leaves you with a safe you can't open. I had one safe manufacturer tell me that they would pay to get the safe open, but I had to send it to them! They were in California!!!! The point is that some manufactuers have warranties where they will pay to have a local lock smith get it open for you if (when) someone destroys the dial and handle trying to break it open. Just a few thoughts. Let us know what you decide.

 

[Igyjastabay]

Thanks for the replies. The pictured safe has a ul tag that says tl15. The door is 1 1/2” solid steel and all other sides are 1 1/4” Solid steel. The guy told me the door weighs 1000 lbs. basically the door is heavier than most gun safes on the market. He told me the safe was 20 years old

 

[Cokeman]

Outside hinges are not a big deal. The deadbolts around the door hold it shut, not the hinges. That is, unless there are not enough bolts.

 

[DavidABQ]

That looks like a real safe! I would spend the extra money for It!

 

[edwardware]

. . . when I find a local add for a guy selling safe. It a tl15 safe 52” tall made by Major Safe Co. it weighs 3250 lbs!

Done, with one caveat. It doesn't look to be fireproof, so locate it such that a structure fire won't roast it. Buy a GoldenRod or a nightlight to control relative humidity.

 

[George P]

Thanks for your questions. While it appears to be an interesting safe... I'm not so sure it would be a good (i.e. secure) safe. First, I noticed that the hinges were on the outside. Most higher quality, modern safes will have the hinges on the inside because generally they are a weak point when exposed so the bad guys can get to them. Second, I can't really see how this safe locks. I don't see a single locking bar. How many does it have? Once again, most higher quality modern safes will have at least two or three across the top and botton as well as three or four down the both sides. Third, does this safe have any fire rating? It seems to be pretty thin, relatively speaking, when looking at the thickness of the sides and top in the pictures. If you're going to put it in a garage, a fire rating might be a good idea with all the gasoline, etc. laying around in most garages. Fourth, are there any electric outlets or openings for a wire so that you can put a dehumidifier in the safe? A dehumidifier might be a good idea, especially if it's going to be in an unheated garage and subject to temperature shifts. Fifth, is there any kind of a warranty? It's been my experience that most so-call "warranties" on safes aren't worth anything, but a couple of manufacturers offer a warranty that is actually worth having. When the bad guys find your safe, the first thing they do is beat on it; then they try cutting their way in; then they might try something else but eventually they get frustrated and beat on the dial and the handle, breaking them off. So that leaves you with a safe you can't open. I had one safe manufacturer tell me that they would pay to get the safe open, but I had to send it to them! They were in California!!!! The point is that some manufactuers have warranties where they will pay to have a local lock smith get it open for you if (when) someone destroys the dial and handle trying to break it open. Just a few thoughts. Let us know what you decide.

My first safe (and I would still have it had the movers not damaged it in moving) was from National Security. That company is now the top of the line models for Liberty. The hinges were on the outside; taking the hinges off did nothing, as there are bolts on every side holding the door locked. If the safe is all solid steel, as opposed to laminates, it should do well; you can always add some gypsum board for a fire rating. You can use passive desiccant boxes in lieu of a plug in dehumidifier

To ME, it sounds like you are trying to talk yourself out of the deal. \

Most gun "safes" aren't safes, but Residential Security Containers". The fact that this is an actual rated safe (T15), means it should be better than any of the RSC's sold by "safe" companies.

If you want really good, :
http://www.graffundersafes.com/

 

[rpenmanparker]

Thanks for your questions. While it appears to be an interesting safe... I'm not so sure it would be a good (i.e. secure) safe. First, I noticed that the hinges were on the outside. Most higher quality, modern safes will have the hinges on the inside because generally they are a weak point when exposed so the bad guys can get to them. Second, I can't really see how this safe locks. I don't see a single locking bar. How many does it have? Once again, most higher quality modern safes will have at least two or three across the top and botton as well as three or four down the both sides. Third, does this safe have any fire rating? It seems to be pretty thin, relatively speaking, when looking at the thickness of the sides and top in the pictures. If you're going to put it in a garage, a fire rating might be a good idea with all the gasoline, etc. laying around in most garages. Fourth, are there any electric outlets or openings for a wire so that you can put a dehumidifier in the safe? A dehumidifier might be a good idea, especially if it's going to be in an unheated garage and subject to temperature shifts. Fifth, is there any kind of a warranty? It's been my experience that most so-call "warranties" on safes aren't worth anything, but a couple of manufacturers offer a warranty that is actually worth having. When the bad guys find your safe, the first thing they do is beat on it; then they try cutting their way in; then they might try something else but eventually they get frustrated and beat on the dial and the handle, breaking them off. So that leaves you with a safe you can't open. I had one safe manufacturer tell me that they would pay to get the safe open, but I had to send it to them! They were in California!!!! The point is that some manufactuers have warranties where they will pay to have a local lock smith get it open for you if (when) someone destroys the dial and handle trying to break it open. Just a few thoughts. Let us know what you decide.

Do you really imagine a thief would cut or blow solid steel hinges to get a home stash of guns? How would he even move a 1000 lb door? Maybe for a million bucks in a bank, but not for some guns in somebody’s house. And do you even have a floor that can support it? You would want that directly on a concrete slab. Seems to me you are way overthinking and overdoing this. A home gun safe should be a significant deterrent to theft, but not Fort Knox.

 

[Walkalong]

I'm not so sure it would be a good (i.e. secure) safe. First, I noticed that the hinges were on the outside.

Cut them off and you still cannot open the safe. No worries.

Outside hinges have the advantage of being able to remove the door for moving the safe, they open farther, and are just as secure. The hinges are not part of the protection against being broken into.

 

[Walkalong]

Oops, I see George P already covered it.

 

[hdwhit]

Igyjastabay asked:
What would you guys do?

All I can tell you is what I did.

With one exception, every gun I own could be replaced within days of receiving a check from the insurance company. Two of my guns have strong sentimental value, but not strong enough for me to impoverish myself to protect. Your situation may be different and thus change what follows:

You have to decide what it is you are defending against. If you are looking to defeat a bunch of kids looking for something to pawn to get high, you face a very different need from determined attackers who want certain valuable guns from your collection.

Since I have the former, I elected a "defense in depth" approach.

• I added a "replacement-cost" gun rider on my homeowner's insurance policy for about $12 a year. The rifle that fires a wildcat cartridge rifle is excluded and the guns with sentimental value will only be replaced with "like kind and quality".
• I bought a gun safe from Sears (this was 1988). It was the model immediately below their "Sears Best".
  
• The closet for the safe was reinforced with steel channel (installed when the house was built, but an easy retrofit in an existing house). I considered this important to prevent someone driving a stolen truck into the house to get to the safe - a common practice in North Texas for many years.
  
• I installed a monitored alarm system.
• I installed ANSI Grade 2 locks (ANSI Grade 3 are typical in residential construction).
• I installed reinforced hinges and door frames to make it harder to kick in a door.
• I placed some inherited jewelry along with two used IBM Thinkpad Computers (bought from e-bay) at conspicuous locations near obvious entry points.

To get to my guns, someone has to gain access to the house, defeat the alarm (which will alert the monitoring company) so that the robber now only have minutes to do their job, bypassing the easily-pawn-able jewelry and Thinkpads to then spend time trying to gain access to the safe.

So far, this has worked.

Remember, the quality of the alarm and the quality of the safe are of limited value IF your robbers have stolen an F-350 or equivalent and used it as a battering ram to drive through the front wall of the house. They can easily attach a cable to your safe, rip it from its lag-bolted moorings, hoist it onto their truck and haul it off to their lair to work on getting access to your sophisticated safe at their leisure.

This is why I don't rely on a single line of defense.

So far, I have been able to locate the pawn shop that bought my ThinkPads and buy them back for what the pawn broker paid for them (plus a little extra - it ensures the next time he buys them, I get a call). So far, nobody has been willing to pass up the easily-pawnable laptops to take the time to go after my guns.

Good Luck.

 

[hdwhit]

igyjustabay asked: "What would you guys do?"

Whether I practiced a point defense by buying a massive safe or a "defense in depth" with many layers, I would make sure to contact my insurance company and talk to them about it. Ask for discounts that would be attributable to your planned security improvements. Apart from the safe, the other security improvements the might suggest (like an alarm system) lessen the risk not only to your guns but to the rest of your household goods. They may also have suggestions about how to improve your security that don't cost a lot (mine certainly did). Have a frank conversation because at this point, the insurance company is your friend, not your enemy.

 

[George P]

hoist it onto their truck and haul it off

A fully loaded safe that weighs over 3000# empty? Not likely.....

 

[Jack B.]

Hope you are a handy man and can build the racks for your long guns and know how to attach them. Won't hold long guns like it is. Unless you take out the shelfs and just pile the guns in there. Plus you need a way to control humidity in the safe if you are going with the garage placement.

 

[GBExpat]

Niiiiiiice safe! That looks like the real deal.

In my humble opinion ... peruse what has already been stated here ... and then ...

BuyIt! BuyIt!BuyIt!BuyIt!BuyIt!BuyIt!BuyIt!BuyIt!BuyIt!BuyIt!BuyIt!BuyIt!BuyIt!

Welcome to THR, igyjustabay!

EDIT: Just in case it hasn't already been stated ... you should not mount that pup directly on a concrete floor. From what I have read, such concrete/steel contact will result in rust.

 

[Walkalong]

At 3250 pounds it is a beast compared to gun safes, including the Sturdy I have and really like.

A TL15 safe will keep pros out for 15 minutes. Common burglars much, much, longer. Smash and grab guys will never get in.

And do like hdwhit and layer your protection.

 

[Dan Forrester]

To follow up on what GBExpat said about not mounting on a concrete floor I used a horse stall mat. It’s similar to a hockey puck but in a 4’ x 8’ or so sheet. I just drill straight through the stall mat and into the concrete and then drive in tapcons with fender washers. I have a large sturdy safe and a smaller TL15 set up this way.

 

[John Joseph]

Sounds like a deal to me.

 

[drk1]

I see that a lot of folks have never had bad guys go after one of their safes. So far, I've had 3 of mine destroyed by the bad guys and over a dozen that belonged to customers. Those hinges on the outside that really aren't an issue... yea, sometimes if they are cut are off, you still can't open the safe. That's the issue because when the bad guys cut the hinges off (saw or torch) and still can't get in, they leave it for you and ... guess what... 9 times out of ten you can't get in either because they damaged the door trying to cut off the hinges. Finally, make sure your insurance policy will cover the guns that you destroy trying to get your safe open after the bad guys leave. Most insurance policies don't cover damage done by the owner. Best of luck.

 

[British Guy]

Couple of things, if the door is 1 1/2" thick it probably is laminated steel and one of those laminates is probably manganese. The reason that most locks are mounted on a manganese hardplate is because in the real world to drill a 3/8" hole in a 1/2" hardplate takes literally 3 to 4 hours with a magnetic drill press and a dozen or more of the best drill bits you can buy. I don't think a hole that small would be of any use to any burglar, I absolutely agree with "hdwhit" defense in depth is the best defense. Secondly, shop around there are many companies out there selling used high security safes and some of those don't know what they have. A steel TL15 will stop 99.9 percent of all burglars, meth heads, and idiots. I am new to this forum, so, if it has not been covered before add video to your property. Pretty much all of us have the internet at home and cctv equipment is so inexpensive,now you can set up cameras to notify you and send you video before they even get in to your house or property.

 

[British Guy]

This is a great video that shows what it takes to drill a TL 15 with a 1/2" door. This probably took him a couple of hours. This is just to show how long it takes to drill through hardplate. Without a doubt this guy is an expert. Enjoy. P.S. Look at how many failed electronic locks he has collected