Scout Scope Question

Status
Not open for further replies.
Varminterror said:
How much design input do you feel Cooper offered for the Ruger Gunsite rifle? Considering, of course, he was dead for 5yrs before it was released...
Click to expand...

I don't know. Do you think he taught anyone at Gunsite ? Maybe they spoke over coffee ?

But, yer probably right. Since Col. Cooper was a quiet man, never known to voice his opinion, he likely never told anyone at Gunsite about his ideas. Certainly, he may never of mentioned his Scout Rifle concept to the folks at the shooting academy he founded. They were likely extermely surprised when Ruger wanted them to design a Scout Rifle!

It's likely a fluke that EVERY rifle marketed as a 'Scout Rifle' has a detachable magazine:

46c6b3b84d93034b7e63cf79c805307d_5a06796bc9203aeed18772e388d72382.png

27778-media.jpg
 
Last edited:
I have a Burris 2 3/4x scout scope on my M38 Swede. I put it there intending to use the Swede 5 rnd clips for fast reloads, which it facilitates well. The scope, however is limited to about 150-200 yds in heavy cover. It just doesn't resolve the bits and pieces of animals among the brush and trees that a 7-9x scope does. Out on the prairie, it's good to 400 yds or so properly zeroed. The club I spend most of my time shooting faces South (?) and backlighting or reflection has never been a problem but I wear a boonie hat that covers the scope ocular pretty well (for me)
 
SharpDog said:
I don't know. Do you think he taught anyone at Gunsite ? Maybe they spoke over coffee ?

But, yer probably right. Since Col. Cooper was a quiet man, never known to voice his opinion, he likely never told anyone at Gunsite about his ideas. Certainly, he may never of mentioned his Scout Rifle concept to the folks at the shooting academy he founded. They were likely extermely surprised when Ruger wanted them to design a Scout Rifle!
Click to expand...
Not to mention that he left a considerable volume of writing on the subject.
 
Last edited:
SharpDog said:
It's likely a fluke that EVERY rifle marketed as a 'Scout Rifle' has a detachable magazine:
Click to expand...

Do you think an archaic fixed box magazine rifle would sell in the modern market as well as a dbm? Do you think marketing groups would listen to an outmoded design idea as they created a new product offering? Nobody was going to buy a stripper clip DEPENDENT rifle in 1999, let alone 2011. Stripper clip capable? Sure. Dependent? No way.
 
Personally, for me, it works exactly like a red dot (the Firedot is a bonus) and I can dial it up to 5x when needed. The FOV question I feel is moot since I'm a
Varminterror said:
Do you think an archaic fixed box magazine rifle would sell in the modern market as well as a dbm? Do you think marketing groups would listen to an outmoded design idea as they created a new product offering? Nobody was going to buy a stripper clip DEPENDENT rifle in 1999, let alone 2011. Stripper clip capable? Sure. Dependent? No way.
Click to expand...

Then how would that be a justification for Col. Jeff Cooper selecting an EER scope instead of one of the readily available IER scopes on a rifle he designed ? (see original post if you're confused by now).
 
SharpDog said:
Personally, for me, it works exactly like a red dot (the Firedot is a bonus) and I can dial it up to 5x when needed. The FOV question I feel is moot since I'm a


Then how would that be a justification for Col. Jeff Cooper selecting an EER scope instead of one of the readily available IER scopes on a rifle he designed ? (see original post if you're confused by now).
Click to expand...

No confusion for me - just sadness to see so many silly folks so blindly adherent to ONE guy’s outdated and out moded rifle design. How many other experts of the same caliber as Cooper have recommended a forward mounted scope and stripper clip compatibility in the modern era?

I played that game, as a fan of Cooper’s in the 90’s, and I do own a Ruger GSR (admittedly wish mine were in Creedmoor), as well as a pair of Marlin 1895SBL and an old Ruger Frontier (predecessor to the Gunsite rifle, and more true to cooper’s design). The fast handling, mid-power rifle isn’t magic, but it certainly is handy. The forward mounted optic was a peculiar idiosyncrasy of Cooper’s, an affinity not shared by many other experts even in his time. He had a lot of great insights, many of which still have applicability today - the forward mounted optic isn’t among them.
 
I built a Pseudo-Scout out of an Ishapore 2A1. It met most of Col. Cooper's requirements even though I could never make weight with it. When the Ruger GSR came out I unloaded that rifle, but kept the Leupold Scout scope and put it on the GSR. It doesn't make weight either, and I gave up the stripper clip function.

Is it the "do all, end all" of rifles? No, but it is darn handy.
 
Varminterror said:
No confusion for me - just sadness to see so many silly folks so blindly adherent to ONE guy’s outdated and out moded rifle design. How many other experts of the same caliber as Cooper have recommended a forward mounted scope and stripper clip compatibility in the modern era?

I played that game, as a fan of Cooper’s in the 90’s, and I do own a Ruger GSR (admittedly wish mine were in Creedmoor), as well as a pair of Marlin 1895SBL and an old Ruger Frontier (predecessor to the Gunsite rifle, and more true to cooper’s design). The fast handling, mid-power rifle isn’t magic, but it certainly is handy. The forward mounted optic was a peculiar idiosyncrasy of Cooper’s, an affinity not shared by many other experts even in his time. He had a lot of great insights, many of which still have applicability today - the forward mounted optic isn’t among them.
Click to expand...

I guess I'll just have to get some more experience with the scout concept then. I not only have an original Cooper Scout from steyr but a standard Steyr scout as well bought at around the same time in 1999. I have converted 4 AR's to a scout configuration as well as both of my Mini-14's and a Century Arms AK-47. All see range use. The standard scout is my deer rifle, the Mini-14's serve as home defense. The DD AR is being converted to a 6.5G scout configuration from it's current 5.56 and I will retain the scout scope on that upper as well. So I guess I need to actually achieve 2 decades of experience with thousands of rounds fired through nine rifles to relieve my 'blindness'.

I also have several bolt actions (3 .308's, a .270 and a .25-06) with conventionally mounted scopes as well as an M1A and two AR-10s with conventionally mounted high power scopes in addition to another Century Arms AK-47 and a Colt AR with Vortex red-dots. So I do have some basis for comparison.

In terms of rimfire I have an S&W AR with a scout scope for practice and a Magnum Research .22lr with a conventionally mounted 4x. So again, some basis for comparison there as well.

Some more practice and I'll shake this blindness, I'm sure.

One interesting aside is I also have a Les Baer precision AR in 5.56 that currently has a Leupold Mk4 10x fixed power scope on it that's also getting re-uppered to 6.5G. It needs a higher power scope. I might try an IER on it if I can find one in the right magnification and features. Currently, my go-to scope for conventional is a Vortex Viper PST FFP mil-dot.
 
Last edited:
:rofl::rofl:

If it takes more than the 20+ years I have given the forward optic, that might illustrate the inherent weakness of the technique...
 
Wow SharpDog, you've had some experience with the scout scope setup. And your investment in it has rekindled my interest in the system.

Have you ever used the Leupold FX-II Scout Rifle Scope 2.5x 28mm? This seems popular with buyers on the midway site.

Also, I'd Iike to say thanks to everyone who's taken the time to post on this thread. I've gotten some good info. My number one takeaway is that none of these telescope setups is a magic system without some practice. At the last, I think the scout scope is worth a try as I am looking for something as fast or a hair faster than irons and slightly superior to irons for sighting and target identification.

 
Mixed Nuts said:
Wow SharpDog, you've had some experience with the scout scope setup. And your investment in it has rekindled my interest in the system.

Have you ever used the Leupold FX-II Scout Rifle Scope 2.5x 28mm? This seems popular with buyers on the midway site.

Also, I'd Iike to say thanks to everyone who's taken the time to post on this thread. I've gotten some good info. My number one takeaway is that none of these telescope setups is a magic system without some practice. At the last, I think the scout scope is worth a try as I am looking for something as fast or a hair faster than irons and slightly superior to irons for sighting and target identification.
Click to expand...

Yes, I have three of the Leupy Scouts on my two Mini-14's and my S&W AR in .22lr. I like that it is very small, light and bright. But I've been replacing them and all but one of the Burris's with the Leupold Scout Firedot. I really like how small and bright the dot is and it turns on/off when you handle the gun so you never need to turn it off. I even got rechargeable batteries and 3 battery chargers for the coin-type batteries it takes. You can get sheets of 25 rechargeables for cheap. I've got 6 of those now (one soon to go on my 6.5G upper). The rechargeable batteries will probably fit most illuminated scopes they are a popular size. I even have a digital IR thermometer that takes the same batteries.
 
Last edited:
Unless your farsighted.......I wonder how that would affect seeing thru a scope, and would a scout scope be beneficial.....
I'm near sighted with astigmatism, and eye placement, and occular adjustment is pretty critical for me. Other folks can't usually use my scopes without readjusting the occular.
 
LoonWulf said:
Unless your farsighted.......I wonder how that would affect seeing thru a scope, and would a scout scope be beneficial.....
I'm near sighted with astigmatism, and eye placement, and occular adjustment is pretty critical for me. Other folks can't usually use my scopes without readjusting the occular.
Click to expand...

I'm farsighted. But I also have corrected shooting / sunglasses (in fact they are also my normal wear). I got a great optical exam with a prescription that corrects my vision completely including barrel distortion and I ordered online from SportRX. They have digital progressive lenses (mine basically mimic bifocals in my prescription). have some Ranger 68's with their All-In-One 'Prebuilt' coating. The All-in-One coating works from very dark to fairly bright lighting and doesn't impact my night vision very much. They are good for most sunlight. You would probably want dark polarized lenses for very bright light. The lenses are easily changed by the wearer.

rpb2g99_rab9952_2_1__1.jpg

https://www.sportrx.com/randolph-engineering-ranger-classic-68mm-cable-temple.html

https://www.sportrx.com/prebuilt-guide

They have a sale on now. They have a 20% sale every couple of months. Next one will probably be 4th of July. The Glasses with prescription lenses should not run more than $425 on sale. This includes scratch coating which you want. You don't need anti-fog coating with these glasses. If you're interested they also have mil-spec glasses. Mil-spec glasses have tougher frames. I got these for work since I broke the frames of the previous pair (but don't get them unless you go with anti-scratch coating, the stock sunglass lenses are reported to scratch easily):

gmtpcgybk2.jpg

https://www.sportrx.com/smith-gray-man-tactical.html

btw SportRx also has some great fishing lenses (I have the Fresh Water Green).
 

Attachments

  • rpb2g99_rab9952_2_1__1.jpg
    rpb2g99_rab9952_2_1__1.jpg
    19.7 KB · Views: 0
  • gmtpcgybk2.jpg
    gmtpcgybk2.jpg
    31.1 KB · Views: 0
Last edited:
LoonWulf said:
Unless your farsighted.......I wonder how that would affect seeing thru a scope, and would a scout scope be beneficial.....
I'm near sighted with astigmatism, and eye placement, and occular adjustment is pretty critical for me. Other folks can't usually use my scopes without readjusting the occular.
Click to expand...

I’m near sighted with with bad astigmatism. It’s always a wonder to me how much brilliant people have in common.
 
Well, I decided to just do it. Put it on the scout even though I intend it for another gun. Stayed pretty conservative. The FX-II Scout IER 2.5x28mm. As a non-scope person my initial impressions are very positive. It is fast to find the view and the eye relief range is endless. I can find the cross hairs no matter where I put my cheek on the stock. If I stand in the hall, I can sight in the shampoo bottle on the shower ledge as quick as irons, maybe a hair quicker actually. I've sighted in the bottle and shower knobs about 150 times at this point. That's the practicing in action.

Now, I just need to resist the urge to buy a standard scope to make a comparison.

View attachment 786902
 
Yeah, you can't just toss that out there and not give us a little more detail on it......
 
Chicharonnes, LoonWulf, I was planning on putting the scout scope onto an AR.

As an aside, I also bought a binoculars. A Nikon Monarch series 5 10x42. Tonight, after sundown, I went outside and looked through them. Only did that because they are a new toy and I'm still checking them over. It was a revelation. They work better than my eyes in the dark and I don't mean magnification. Through the glass, I can see stuff gently illuminated in the distance that I can't even see at all without them. They really do gather light.

I begin to see why people get excited about optics. If I had a good rifle scope with a 42mm objective I could likely see the same stuff. 50mm maybe more. Give that scope an adjustable illuminated reticle and then, well, bang bang bang.
 
Such discussions about "Scout" anything soon become mired down in what JC would have thought about it.

I like my new Vortex Crossfire 2X7 LER scope on my Savage M10 "Scout" and I just removed a 1X4 Nikon African S(tandard)E(ye)R(elief) from my Marlin SBL Guide Gun and mounted a Burris 2.75X LER scope. Prefer leaving the "Scout" adjective off and just calling similar rifles multi-purpose and the optics LER or IER so as not to invoke the ghost of JC to frown upon my efforts at deciding for myself what I like or do not like.

IMG_4158.jpg

I have not noted any light reflections that interfere with the use of either scope or rifle.

3C
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

M
  • Locked
Extended eye relief or scout scope opinions
Replies
2
Views
422
cdb1
cdb1
B
  • Locked
To scout scope or not to scout scope...
Replies
23
Views
3K
Chrontius
C
A
  • Locked
Scout Scope for a K-31
Replies
5
Views
593
PAC 762
P
R
  • Locked
M1A Scout Squad Scope
Replies
12
Views
2K
Roughneck08
R
T
  • Locked
Scout Scopes and Eye Dominance Question
Replies
4
Views
1K
Sunray
S
Back
Top