Series 80 firing system

[mattw]

I checked all the old threads using search but i was just wondering..

..How many of you have actually had problems with a series 80 nrm colt? I've heard nothing but positive reviews on them and nothing but theoretical reasons why a pistol with the series 80 firing pin saftey system would be sub-par in the reliability department.

So how many of you have actually had a problem caused by the series 80 firing pin saftey or worked on a problem caused by it in the nrm 1991A1s

 

[Old Fuff]

I know of three cases where there were problems. In two of them the levers didn't lift the lock high enough to fully clear the firing pin, and over time it (the lock) got burred and stuck. In the third case the owner installed an aftermarket trigger with a backlash screw. Thereafter the trigger didn't move far enough back to fully activate the lock.

Some people like them. I don't. I think they're an answer looking for a question, but to each his own.

 

[AK103K]

I have guns both with and without the safety. I've carried a Series 80 gun for about ten years now and never had any troubles with it.

I've heard a lot of the same ramblings that you have and never found them to be true, at least with any of my guns. My triggers have all been good too.

I have dropped a freshly loaded, cocked and locked Series 70 and watched it fall to the kitchen floor in slow motion. It didnt go off, and I've never done it since, but I'd feel a lot better if it was the Series 80 gun if it ever happens again.

 

[TexasRifleman]

I personally know of no one that has had an issue, but I also don't know of anyone that has had an issue with MIM parts or the lock on Smith and Wesson revolvers.

These are all religious battles more than practical.

In my case, I do not fear MIM parts, I do not fear S&W locks. These 2 don't really do anything one way or the other.

The Series 80 parts I do not fear, but I DO remove. They can get in the way of a nice trigger job on a 1911. I take them out on all my 1911's that happen to have them. I do not carry these though. I would not modify a carry weapon.

It was an answer looking for a problem in my opinion, especially since the company that came out with them has since moved back to Series 70 on lots of things.

If you remove this stuff, be sure to use a shim to keep all the internal pieces in line.

 

[45auto]

On my series 80 the plunger became worn(battered) and finally "locked" the firing pin forward and jammed the next round. Bent the FP a "tad" and the bullet snapped the slide stop "nub" off. Pretty good malf .

It's a simple system, but timing is an issue, as is "wear", so it needs to be checked every so often by a knowledable person IMHO. Fair amount of rounds through the gun when it happened.

 

[Moonclip]

I have never seen or have had a personal problem with series 80 Colts though I do not like the parts as they make firing pin removal and cleaning more difficult.

It seems the series II Kimbers have more problems but I have little experience with them.

As for S&W integral locks being a problem especially in the hard kicking small revolvers, I'll never know as I'll never own one!

 

[HSMITH]

As Fuff mentioned, aftermarket triggers with overtravel screws are a BIG no-no on the series 80 guns, the majority of problems I have seen have been due to this. The other more frequent problem is people detail stripping them, not getting the little levers in the frame right, and trying to fire the gun. It really is amazing how many times some people will continue trying to shoot the gun when it obviously isn't working AT ALL!!! I've seen the plungers beaten so badly they had to be pulled out with vise grips.

I don't remeber ever seeing a problem with a series 80 that was built right, maintained correctly and not modified.

 

[45auto]

" Built right" are the operative words and remember, it's made by Colt so you never really know until you put some rounds through it.

IMHO, one of the reasons there may be few problems is I don't think most people put enough rounds through one to really "test" the system. Most of the people I know, that shoot any amount of rounds, remove the parts. I'm one of the exceptions, in my experience anyway.

On mine, the plunger was loose enough where the hammer, I suspect, was hitting the plunger too much and finally battered it. It even put a burr in the slide plunger hole, which is not completely round now.

 

[crucible]

Of my 3 1911's, one is a Colt series 80, the rest are 70 series in makeup. I'd defy anyone to correctly distinguish which one has the series 80 trigger by the trigger itself-all are truely excellent triggers with no work done to them. (My series 80 Colt is 16+ years old now FWIW.)

Series 80 weapons are well proven designs; the rest is pure FUD.

C-

 

[BluesBear]

I have heard reputable tales of problems with them but I've never had one, nor have I ever seen one in person* and I jumped on the Series 80 bandwagon early on.

I've put well over 50,000 rounds through Series 80 Colts and never had a probem with the Series 80 parts. In fact I'll only own Series 80 guns now.
But I do admit that they make comlete stripping a real witch.

I've had quite a few people shoot my Series 80 guns and then ask me if it was still safe without the Series 80 parts. One guy didn't believe they were still in there. I had to pull the slide and show him before he shut up. And yes I kept his $20.


The Series 80 Gold Cups don't seem to have any trigger problems.
And I have a very nice Lightweight Commander on the bench right now that belongs to another THR member in which the previous owner installed a fugly aluminum trigger with an overtravel screw. It works 100%.
The vertical play in the trigger is horrid but it works fine.

The levers should activate the firing pin safety long before the sear moves. Actually the trigger should not move at all before contacting the lever.
In reality the Series 80 system actually assists with trigger reset.



*except for the one moron who broke the upper lever after he he used a rubber mallet in an attempt to reinstall the slide with the lever up.
In all honesty he didn't break it using the mallet.
The numbnuts broke it when he tried to bend it back straight with a pair of pliers.
I really really wanted to beechslap him.

 

[WT]

I had the firing pin safety plunger lock up on my Series 80 Government Model during a defensive firearm course. The plunger bent slightly and would not allow the slide to return into battery. Using a tool I finally was able to push the plunger in and unlock the slide.

I then took the plunger and spring out of the slide and continued for the rest of the course.

I took the pistol to a authorized Colt smith who polished the plunger tunnel and put in a new plunger and spring. He said it should work for awhile but that there was a possibility of a repeat. The perfect fix would be to do away with the plunger and spring. So far the repairs have worked well.

 

[45auto]

"The plunger bent slightly and would not allow the slide to return into battery. "

Just an opinion, but I'll bet it was the hammer that actually, over time, bent the plunger tube. On my old hammer and plunger, the plunger tube would ride over(touch) the hammer every time the slide came back. Just theorizing, but I'll bet the looser Colt slide/frame fit, especially vertical, causing the plunger tube to get hit harder and start to move sideways, after it peened the plunger hole out of round a bit. I actually had marks on the side of the hammer.

On my new hammer, and plunger, I don't "see" any contact....very close though! Whether the hammer dimensions are different, or new plunger made a difference...don't know. Time will tell. But, I will look for it.

It would be interesting to know, for the series 80 shooters, whether they see contact on their guns.

BluesBear: How many round through a single series 80 with no trouble?
How is you slide/frame fit, aftermarket hammer or standard?

 

[mattw]

so if i had a series 80 nrm colt and felt like taking the series 80 parts out and maybe later putting them back in, just for experimentation, how easy would that be? is it fairly simple to completely remove all the series 80 firing pin saftey parts without adversely affecting reliability? whats that shim someone said something about? whats it made of and where does it go? does it fall out?

 

[BluesBear]

45auto, about 30,000 through one gun. a 1991A1 full size. I had it all fixed up exactly the way I like it and a guy offered me wayyyyy to much for it. Last I knew he had put another 10,000 through it and that was five years ago. It had an old wide spur GI 1911 hammer on it as do all of my Colts.

If the plunger is long enough to hit the hammer I guaranteee you there will be problems down the road. It wasn't meant for that abuse. I think a lot of times damage is done to the Series 80 parts from people who lose their patience during assembly/disassembly. I admit it can be frustrating and it really slows you down.


mattw, there are only four pieces in the series 80 system. In the slide you have the plunger and spring. In the frame you have the upper and lower levers. You can remove the plunger and spring and go merrily on your way.
The levers sit right next to the sear and the hammer and share their respective pins. If you remove the levers there is a shim you need to buy to fill in the gap. If yo8u're going to leave them out long term you can superglue it in place, otherwise it will come out just like the levers do if you remove the hammer if sear/disconnector.

 

[HSMITH]

If I remove the plunger from the slide I also install a series 70 extractor. The plunger provides some support for the series 80 extractor, without the plunger I have seen a higher failure rate of the series 80 extractors. Just my opinion......

 

[BluesBear]

Hmmmmm HSMITH may be on to something.

The plunger isn't supposed to contact the extractor. There is only a clearence cut in the extractor for it.

If some extractors are clocked or someway else contacting the plunger, this may be what causes damage to plungers in some guns but not in others.

Since I generally inspect and tweak my extractors there is no contact with the plunger. Perhaps this is why I have never had any problems.

 

[Delmar]

I have an early series 80 gummint model with all the original FPS parts-150K +through it, and no issues at all, ever.

 

[1911Tuner]

re: The Unround Hole

"
On mine, the plunger was loose enough where the hammer, I suspect, was hitting the plunger too much and finally battered it. It even put a burr in the slide plunger hole, which is not completely round now.

That was caused by a weak or too-short mainspring, and not the fault of the system itself.

"A question in search of an answer"...A statement which I completely agree with. I own a few Series 80 guns, and have used them as range beaters amost exclusively since I got'em...All S-80 parts removed. Before removal, I never had a failure to fire or any other malfunction that could be traced to the system, but I did notice some battering on the slide plunger that almost looked like the edge of a coin...due to the plunger lever not timing early enough or lifting high enough for the plunger to fail to clear the firing pin.
I'd say that it would have caused a problem eventually. How long it would have taken is unknown...but the fact that it occurred in all the guns sorta undermined my faith in Series 80-equipped pistols unless the guns were to be carried a lot and seldom shot.

 

[mattw]

damn i wish colt's would just start making series 70 gov't models.. i don't feel like having to pay extra for a mark IV series 70 repro just to get out from under my distrust of series 80 guns. I wish that dead peoples' heads could be revived like in Futurama. I would buy everything that JMB's head invented.

 

[AK103K]

There's plenty of 70 series guns out there, and you can still come across a deal if you keep an eye open. I picked up an "as new" Government Model for $450 a little while back.

 

[HD]

had one try to go full auto right next to me ...

only a misfeed stopped the problem...
the fp jumped past the block and locked fwd enough to slamfire , (3rd time this has happened to owner) offered to fix it for him but its been 2 years and it still sits in his safe ...
3rd one i've heard of doing this ...

 

[45auto]

Hi Tuner,

Got me on the weaker mainspring. How would that affect the FP plunger tube riding over the hammer?

I now have one of those "higher" levers...so to speak. New plunger and hammer also.

The series 80 could be a fool proof system if they made some modifications I'd bet. As you noted, I don't think it was intended for a lot of shooting without additional attention. Time will tell. I must admit I do like the idea of a FP block...to be honest...but it has to work.

 

[1911Tuner]

Hi Tuner,

Got me on the weaker mainspring. How would that affect the FP plunger tube riding over the hammer?

I now have one of those "higher" levers...so to speak. New plunger and hammer also.

The series 80 could be a fool proof system if they made some modifications I'd bet. As you noted, I don't think it was intended for a lot of shooting without additional attention. Time will tell. I must admit I do like the idea of a FP block...to be honest...but it has to work.

The hammer strikes the grip safety when the slide drives it backward...and it rebounds under the mainspring's influence. If the mainspring is weak, or if the plunger doesn't move freely in the MS housing, it delays...slows... the hammer's rebound, causing it to hit the slide at a point further forward of where it normally hits...which is right at the FP stop, or just a bit further forward.

Examine the dings at the rear underside of the slide to see evidence of it.

Seen it occur on three different Series 80 pistols. All three were cured with a new mainspring.

 

[BluesBear]

Now I'm confused.

I thought he was referring to the Series 80 plunger in the slide? I thought it was hanging too low and the hammer was hitting it, from underneath, as the slide cycled.

 

[1911Tuner]

Confusion?

maybe I am too...I thought he was referrin' to the edge of the hole bein' peened and deformed...right there on the thin side. Hmmmm...