Removal of 1911 Series 80 firing pin safety

[AlexanderA]

In another thread, Ed Ames wrote:

The AO "GI" uses a firing pin safety - not GI.

I understand that the 4 parts of the Series 80 trigger/firing pin safety interlock can be removed (restoring the gun to GI function), as long as a special spacer shim is added to the frame, preventing the sear from wandering to the right.

That still leaves a hole in the slide where the plunger and spring had been. That may or may not be a problem, but it seems to me to be a place where debris could enter, and potentially gum up the works.

Is there any reason that the removed plunger (with or without its spring) could not be used as a filler for that hole? If you use a GI-type extractor, without the Series 80 notch, it seems that it would lock the plunger in the "up" position so it would not interfere with the firing pin. (You could, at the same time, substitute an unnotched GI firing pin.) Or am I missing something?

 

[HisSoldier]

I repaired my Colt stainless commander of that lawyer device, left the hole there. If it seemed a possible problem you could just drive a chunk of dowel into the hole and cut it flush. It never occurred to me that the hole would/could be a problem, and it hasn't for the 6 years since.

 

[1911Tuner]

I removed the parts from my 91A1 range beaters many years and tens of thousands of rounds ago and left the holes open. Never had a problem with debris.

One thing to be aware of is that the frame blank was never intended to be a permanent addition to the gun. Its original purpose was to let a pistolsmith check his progress on a trigger job without the hassle of fiddling with the levers.

The spacer is soft, and the holes will flange with use. If those flanges go past a certain point, they interfere with clean sear reset, which can cause some interesting problems.

My strongest advice is to detail strip the gun about every 1500 rounds and use a smooth mill file to dress the flanging...and replace the blank when it needs the 4th dressing.

 

[rszwieg]

Cylinder and Slide makes a titanium parts kit that improves the Series 80 trigger a bit but still not a 70/ GI trigger.

 

[nugun55]

I don't understand the problem. My 1991 shot fine right out the box. Is it just an Old timer can't stand change thing? The trigger feels fine to me. I have a TRP whose the trigger is a little lighter, but no more crisp at the break. What's the gain?

 

[rskent]

I must be missing something.

It seems easier and cheaper to just polish the parts and make sure they are functioning correctly. No matter what you do to a series 80 gun it will never be GI. And if they are cleaned up and working correctly they seem to shoot just fine.

I guess my trigger finger is not as refined as some.

 

[1911Tuner]

I don't understand the problem. My 1991 shot fine right out the box. Is it just an Old timer can't stand change thing?

It's not always due to old farts refusing to accept change and it's not usually about the trigger.

People remove the system for a variety of reasons. I did because I used to shoot a lot...and all my ammunition was reloaded with home cast bullets, and therefore the guns required complete disassembly for cleaning frequently. It was just more expedient without the system.

Others do it because they feel that the more gadgets ya got, the more Murphy it gets. I don't carry Series 80 pistols for that very reason...and I don't carry Series 80s with the system circumvented.

Still others have seen evidence that the firing pin release is delayed, and causing a problem...and could potentially lead to misfires and even tying up the gun...even though there are ways to correct it. Once it's seen or experienced, they just don't trust it any more.

It was pretty common in the early Series 80s. Not so much any more, but it still shows up occasionally.

 

[JDGray]

Others do it because they feel that the more gadgets ya got, the more Murphy it gets. I don't carry Series 80 pistols for that very reason...and I don't carry Series 80s with the system circumvented.

I had a Kimber UCII that had the grip safety timing off just a tad, wouldn't fire without a perfect grip on the safety. I very much dislike any extra parts in a gun that keep it from doing its job
Found the problem doing quick draw drills, not when I actually needed the weapon, thankfully!

 

[Zach S]

I never really worried about it with my 1991A1. The hole is only exposed for a fraction of a second while the slide cycles.

If a 'smith cant do a good triggerjob on a Colt Series 80 he's incompetent, lazy, or both. And to be honest, if your trigger is so light that the Series 80 parts effect it, it is too light for duty or defense.

I removed the S80 parts in the 1991A1 I had for solely simplicity. I only use short guide rods and slotted grip screws for the same reason.

 

[royal barnes]

I have several Series 80 1911's. Other than general polishing, sear and trigger fitting I have done nothing to them. I don't find that much difference, if any, between the 70's and 80's.

 

[Zerodefect]

I had a Kimber UCII that had the grip safety timing off just a tad, wouldn't fire without a perfect grip on the safety. I very much dislike any extra parts in a gun that keep it from doing its job
Found the problem doing quick draw drills, not when I actually needed the weapon, thankfully!

Same thing happened to me with the FP safety. Got called a liar about it on a Kimber thread. LOLz.

The leftover holes in the slide are as much of a dirt drain as they are a dirt entrance. Just detail strip the slide, and clean it more often.

 

[BlindJustice]

My S&W 1911 5" bbl. base model for S&W
unllike the 80 Series FPS S&w tied the FPS to
the Grip Safety and not the trigger to deactivate
the FPS. It also has a Les Baer MSH and at that
time * also had a Titanium Main Spring Cap and
Titanium hammer strut installed. ALso has skeleton
Hammer and 3-holed trigger

This past AUgust I picked up a Colt Combat Commander

About 3500 rds thru the S&W and the Commander
has 350 so far. Comparing the two trigger pulls.
& keep in mind the S&W uses a .38 Super sized FP

S&W triggger kinda loose so there's an initial take up
little if any take up on the Colt . Both have a crisp
break, S&W definitely lighter/quicker ignition.

I'm considering some trigger work on the Colt perhaps
it'll get some Ti bits as well ( Brownell's has em )




The S&W 1911 also has a Titanium Main Spring Cap & Hammer Strut
it's at 3500+ rounds thru it, and the trigger is definitly lighter &
Quicker Both have the same cresp break. the S&W has the
skelton hammer//trigger.

 

[Drail]

If you've ever seen a Ser. 80 FPS fail and not allow the gun to fire when you need it to you will understand. Just because you have never seen it or don't understand how it can happen doesn't mean it can't. I learned a very long time ago that Murphy runs the Universe.

 

[HisSoldier]

There is another reason some of us remove all such modern "Necessities".

John Browning didn't feel the need for them. I personally feel it is a slap in JMB's face, and I really don't like that. I greatly enjoy gun designs, good ones, and to me it shows a lack of respect.

The other thing is that the real reason for some or all of the changes is driven by a fear of a liability window that got left open. A person who learns his gun isn't likely to become a liability. Besides that, most of us agree that when we take a gun in our hands, or get behind the wheel of a cat, we bear the responsibility for the outcome.

 

[1911Tuner]

John Browning didn't feel the need for them. I personally feel it is a slap in JMB's face, and I really don't like that. I greatly enjoy gun designs, good ones, and to me it shows a lack of respect.

It's doubtful that he'd have cared. He didn't feel the need for a thumb safety, but when the US Cavalry asked for it, he added it.

If they'd have asked for a passive firing pin safety, he'd have likely shrugged and said: "Sure. Gimme a couple weeks."

 

[Pete D.]

series 80

I have a series 80 Gold Cup that, at this point, has more than 60,000 rounds through it.
When I first had the gun NIB, I sent it to the late George Madore ("the wizard of the 1911") for further accurizing. He did not remove the plunger but did some sort of restructuring of the linkage to get the trigger down to between 3-4lbs. Something to do with removing the weight from the trigger and putting it on the grip safety. I did not pursue the details. Beautiful trigger then....still is.
Pete

 

[1911Tuner]

A quick check to evaluate the Series 80 system's operation:

Pull the plunger and look at it at the top where it goes to full diameter...right at the corner. If you notice something that looks like splines...like tiny gear teeth...your firing pin release is late and it'll cause a problem sooner or later.

 

[Jim Watson]

I shot a Colt 1991A1 with de-80 spacer in place for several seasons of IDPA competition, until they started checking for function of "safety devices." When I went to put the lawyer levers back in place (Which was not as simple a job as you might think, requiring gunsmith intervention.) the spacer was in fine shape with no flanging of the holes.

 

[huntershooter]

Same experience here Jim.
I run a 9 mm 1911 with the 80 series parts removed, spacer and 70 series hammer installed.
The pistol is a range/steel challenge gun that has seen several thousands rds. downrange.
Never had a problem with "holes clogging with debris" and the spacer is still serviceable.

 

[Kp321]

My son and I both have series 80 Colts on which I have had to remove the FP safety plunger after trigger tunes. The trigger movement was not consistently enough to activate the plunger.

 

[rskent]

Drail said:

If you've ever seen a Ser. 80 FPS fail and not allow the gun to fire when you need it to you will understand

Sounds like a interesting story Drail. Please tell us about the time your firing pin safety failed just when you needed your trusty Colt to pull your fat out of the fire. Please tell us.


Kp321 said:

The trigger movement was not consistently enough to activate the plunger

OK, now that I understand. I have seen a few 1911's with virtually no trigger pretravel. I can see where it would be very hard to get the safety set up to be reliable in a gun like that.

Thanks

 

[Drail]

Those little splines Tuner mentioned? I have seen so many of those on guns that were right on the ragged edge of not firing. And firing pins all chewed up from crashing into the plunger. The gun was perfect as drawn on the original blueprint. It doesn't need any more parts. It certainly doesn't need any more "safeties". People keep attempting to "improve" it but they really just make Murphy"s job easier. If anything can go wrong it will and it will do it at the worst possible time. Just because you've never seen one fail only means you've never seen one fail. To be fair - almost every one I've seen that was "raggedly functioning" was because the owner had installed a trigger with an OT screw and then dialed out all of the OT. Too many parts designed by different people. Browning got it right.

 

[JDGray]

Same thing happened to me with the FP safety. Got called a liar about it on a Kimber thread. LOLz.

The leftover holes in the slide are as much of a dirt drain as they are a dirt entrance. Just detail strip the slide, and clean it more often.

Yeah, I removed the rear sight and fixed it I sent it back to Kimber to have it fixed before I sold it...

 

[tark]

Warning, guys: Remove that "lawyer lever" and using the gun in self defense may bring more "lawyer trouble" than you ever want to see. If you shoot someone with a gun where you have deliberately deactivated a safety feature....and the other side's lawyer finds out about it (he will) you will be called "reckless and dangerous" and who knows what else.

Nothing wrong with removing it, on some guns it can dramatically improve trigger function...just be careful not to use THAT gun for self defense.

 

[JDGray]

I suppose carrying reloads is off your list too....