Series 80 Safety Failure?

[Lawyerman]

Does anyone have any knowledge of the Colt Series 80 safety failing and in some way disabling the gun? I know people dislike the system but I also know that a good gunsmith can do a pretty impressive trigger on a Series 80.

The real question is how if at all has it affected reliability? Reason I ask is because Series 80 guns trade at a much lower price in my area and I am looking at one as the basis for a custom gun. I have seen Series 80 guns sell for $400 or so pretty regularly. Cheaper the base gun, cheaper the finished gun. If there really is a safety issue I would find a new or old 70 Series or build on a Milspec Springfield.

 

[teombe]

Considering that the series 80 safety is similar in nature to any of the Glocks, SiGs, HKs, Walther P99's, and many other types of handguns, I'd have to say that any issues with reliability are just about nill. The only thing I can see that may be an issue is that the extractor is narrower on Series 80 guns, but that argument can only be made theoretically since I don't think an extractor has ever broken that far back.

Most "traditionalists" don't like the S80 system because John Moses Jesus Browning didn't implement it. Like you said, any smith worth his/her paycheck can do a bang up job on a Series80 gun, and you'll have an actual firing pin block instead of having to rely on physics and inertia for the safety of your hiney.

 

[BigG]

The Series 80 Colts are usually better it and finish than the original Series 70. I will buy all I can get for cheaper than a Series 70. YMMV

 

[TheDutchman]

Never hand a S80 failure.

 

[1911Tuner]

Safety Failure

Howdy Lawyerman,

The Colt Series 80 system is probably one of the most trouble-free passive firing pin blocking systems around. I've known of guns that went 70 or 80 thousand rounds without a problem. The only real problems that come up are
mainly the timing of the plunger lever not being early enough to fully depress the plunger and release the firing pin, and usually ordering the #2 lever from Colt fixes it in neat fashion in about 5 minutes. The whole thing is very similar in design and operation as the one on the old Walther P-38s. Nothing really new under the sun, it seems.

Disabling the system is simple, and only requires buying a 5-dollar spacer from Brownells to fill the gap left by the removal of the two levers in the frame.
The trigger bar lever and the plunger lever. Removal of the slide-mounted plunger and spring don't require anything other than removal. After that, the gun functions exactly like the original 1911s, and will even accept the older parts that were modified to work with the Series 80 safety system. It leaves a hole in the slide, but that doesn't seem to hurt anything. My disabled beaters function just fine with the open hole.

Firing pin...Firing pin stop...Grip safety...Extractor are the four different parts.
I suggest going with the original extractor, even though the Series 80 extractor won't likely cause a problem with the plunger removed...It just doesn't have the added strength in the cutout that the plunger provides.

Now for the caveat that must accompany disabling that, or any safety mechanism. The rest is up to you.

Disabling any engineered safety system...even though there are nearly identical guns that don't have the same thing...can be risky. Not because the gun is less safe, but because any shooting incident...whether accidental or by intent...could be viewed by a jury as negligent...or "Reckless Disregard."
While it won't likely have any effect on the outcome of a criminal trial...though it will probably be mentioned...it could open a huge can of worms for you in a civil action. Also...if you should let somebody else shoot or even handle your gun, and he shoots himself squarely in the foot, it could
cost you, even though he handled the gun carelessly. I therefore cannot recommend it.

Hope this helps.

 

[45auto]

I had a failure once that "locked" the firing pin forward and wouldn't feed the round on a series 80.

It was after many tens of thousands of rounds.

Still like the system and would have no trouble buying another, but the extra parts do wear and the timing is important since it blocks the firing pin.
So, IMHO, extra care is required...but not a lot.

 

[Gunsnrovers]

I have not, but have heard of one failure from a source I consider very reputable, Ned Christiansen, who on another forum recently described how some beach sand froze up his personal S80 Colt.

That being said, I have no issue trusting S80 gun to defend my life any less then I would trust any other maintained handgun.

I've seen enough failures on pistols and revolvers across the board to know they can all go belly up at some point.

 

[spacemanspiff]

one guy came into the shop and in the course of conversation stated that he shakes his cocked & locked 1911 vigorously (while pointed downrange) because he thinks the safeties will fail.

:banghead:

man, all kinds of similies apply that guy, huh?

 

[Lawyerman]

Thanks guys, I really didn't think it was a big issue. I see the 80 Series guns pretty regularly at the local pawn shops at very reasonable prices-in the same league as new Milspecs or only slightly higher. There are alot of them out there too it seems. I own one Series 80 gun -a 1991 Commander and it hasn't been any trouble. Have owned a few others in the past but never for very long for one reason or another.

I may have to start giving them a second look.

 

[Old Fuff]

I am aware of three cases where the lock hung up the firing pin, and/or burred the block so badly it got stuck. In two of the instances the lever(s) weren't lifting the block high enough, and in one an after-market trigger had been installed with a trigger stop screw. The screw was set close enough so that the trigger didn't have enough travel to fully disengage the block.

I agree with Tuner that removing the block could leave one open to some liability, and you can get dirt and grit into the slide around the disconector if the block is removed.

I have avoided any problems by not purchasing any Series 80 pistols. Others of course can follow their own dictates. I would observe that if the intended use for the pistol will be in a non-weapon context I wouldn't worry about the block, although I would keep a careful eye on its condition. In any other situation I would spend the money to buy whatever I wanted that still stuck to the original design.

 

[Lawyerman]

The problem is that there are only so many choices without some kind of safety added. The Springfields are not finished as nicely in many cases as I would like, good guns but the execution of details is sometimes lacking. I know, I have and do own several.

The new Series 70 Colts apparently have internal Gold plating, at least they should for what they are asking for them! Older Kimbers without the II safety are an option but you don't see so many of them around and they run to the pricey side as well. My gunsmith of choice will not work on the II's.

Not much else to work with as base material. You can buy a bare slide and frame from Caspian etc....I suppose....but you pay as much for it as a whole gun! I have a hard time justifying spending more than $500 for a gun, most of whose parts are going to end up in the spares bin, as a base gun for a custom project.

 

[1911Tuner]

Choices

Lawyerman...Might I suggest a Norinco? Good steel throughout and tough as pig iron. Since you plan on custom work anyway, why not start with
a good slide and frame. No MIM or castings in the whole gun, as long as it hasn't been previously dinked with. There are still a load of'em in the pipeline...some unfired or nearly NIB. The prices are still good at about 400 bucks average...but that's subject to change quickly.

 

[Old Fuff]

I occasionally see Series 70 or earlier Colt's on the Internet auctions go for around $600 to $800. I find this to be reasonable because only a minimal number of parts (and sometimes no parts) need to be replaced for quality reasons. I much prefer the older guns even if they are slightly used. Sometimes they have been hardly shot at all, and only have finish wear.

It is an unfortunate fact of life that truly good 1911 pistols (equal to those made before World War Two and shortly thereafter) are necessarily expensive today because the design requires that the parts be made out of steel, and not "steel substitutes," and that certain parts be fitted by an assembler that knows what he/she is doing. It also requires that the components be somewhat related to the original blueprints and specifications - and this isn't always the case. The older guns that were made by Colt or government contractors were subject to strict quality control and inspection procedures, both in the production of individual parts, and the final gun itself. Today quality control is for the most part, a sad joke.

This is not to say that a reliable, accurate and quality 1911 pistol can't be made today, but rather that when it is, it's likely to be expensive.

So when all things are considered, I either look for older guns and rebuild them as necessary (not unlike restoring an old classic car) or start from scratch and build what I want. Given the lifespan of a good gun, this may prove to be the least expensive way to go in the long run.

Face it! The older commercial Colt's and USGI guns are not only good reliable pistols, but great investments as well. Sure they will cost what is sometimes a small fortune, but the value isn't going down.

 

[Lawyerman]

I have a Norinco that I have worked over myself. It is a decent pistol.

I am talking about sending the gun out to a name smith though and having a truly custom gun built. I suppose I'll just bite the bullet and find a 70 Series Colt. I have found a few for $500-600. Around here $600 will get you a 95% gun. $500 one with cosmetic issues or that may have been "modified". Nothing that a smith wouldn't change out or fix anyway so I suppose that's the way to go.