Setting the record straight Australian Gun Laws

[Tharg]

These laws prolly look really good to the anti's. I'd say they looked good to the crooks... but they don't really read about laws and politics... in fact.. i don't think they even know if something is banned or not.

 

[230RN]

OK, thanks for answering my Q about gunshops. I guess enough folks are motivated to purchase guns that they still have a viable business.

Now:

This shows that the 1996 National Firearms Agreement which set out the guidelines that Appsy correctly mentioned is useless and must overturned immediately.

We hear a lot about how crime has increased in Oz. If true, has this convinced any substantial portion of the population that the 1996 National Firearms Agreement is not working and therefore should be overturned?

In other words, how much of a groundswell for repeal is developing?

 

[Appsy]

And your trying to tell me that YOUR system is better?

i never said that.

I bet it doesn't take a criminal anywhere near 8 months to get a Glock.

Nope and the funny thing is that the illegal glock is probably on of the ones that was in the shipping container on its way to the POLICE that went missing a few years back

Flying in to Melbourne recently, the display screens were showing restricted/prohibited items before entering customs. They included "flick knives" (switchblade type knives), tasers, throwing stars, and electric flyswatters! FLYSWATTERS!!?!?!

yep . yep and yep you know how it is its just not right zapping flies mate you know cruelty to animals and all

NSW costs $200 while the ACT version costs only $75 for five years. How much does it cost in Qld?

Cant remember its been a few but i think its around the $200 as well

With such a restricted "market base," how do gun shops, etc. keep their doors open?

they are thin on the ground and that makes it hard to get some of the OS goodies

us law abiding shooters have to fight through obstacles to get our guns but criminals can bypass this

yep

These laws prolly look really good to the anti's

you would think so wouldn't you but its an on going threat

We hear a lot about how crime has increased in Oz

yes and no. gun crime amongst LEGAL GUN OWNERS is low every now and then you get some guy flip out but its rare


im not against the laws but im also not all for them at the end of the day they DO let me enjoy my sport even if it is alot of stuffing around and it dose stop alot of people who should NOT have guns from getting guns they are strict yes but i still own alot of rifles and have alot of fun LEGALLY!!

 

[Kager]

Hi all,

.38 is the largest pistol cal normally allowed, but you can get your license endorsed for heavy cal (up to .45) if you regularly Compete in Metallic Silhouette or Western Action.
I have a S&W 645 .45 auto that I use for MS, Not the ideal cal I know but it is a real fun gun and worth the hassle, (life's to short to shoot a pesky 9mm)
I just wish I could get spare springs and Mags for her...

Secondly licensing is linked to competitions; i.e. If you want to own one .38 revolver you must compete in at least 4 approved competitons, and have 2 other Club attendances, in the current financial year.

Self defense: Firstly it is not a valid reason to get a license or firearm, However you can use "reasonable force " to defend yourself and family. So theoretically you could use a firearm to kill an attacker if your life was at risk. Incidents like this have occured, and often end up as messy legal battles. But quite a few people have been allowed to go free after defending themselves, provided they hav'nt broken any other laws. i.e. discharging a firearm in a public place.


Having said all this we still have a lot of fun, and there are still a lot of people who either shoot or are open minded when it comes to guns. In my spare time I volunteer as a pistol Instructor , and I'm a SSAA (aussie NRA) Range Officer. My local club is in South East Queensland and we are all pretty laid back out here, but we regularly shoot IPSC/IDPA, Three gun, Fullbore rifle, clay target, black powder, ten pin, single action, ect If any of you fellas ever come out here I think I'll be able to find enough ammo to lend ya's


IIRC in QLD the license costs are around $75 each for Longarms and Pistol (5yrs)


Take care

Josh

 

[LightningJoe]

I have to wonder. Is America utterly alone on gun rights and self-defense? Is there no other country where the right to kill your attacker and to arm yourself properly is acknowledged?

 

[JWarren]

The crux of this thread is the exact reason I turned down a job offer that would require me to move to Sydney.


-- John

 

[daniel (australia)]

It is worthwhile mentioning that in several jurisdictions as little as ten years ago there was none of this nonsense. I remember being able to go into a gunshop, say "I'll have that one please, yes the AR15", throw down the money and walk straight on out with it. Things weren't that easy everywhere of course, and pistols were commonly a little harder to get legally, but people did have them and had permits to carry concealed and all of that sort of thing. No-one would have thought 20 or so years ago that we'd have the sort of restrictions we have now.The extent and rapidity of the change should stand as an object lesson.

Contrary to the expectectations of the anti-gun activists there are now more legally-owned firearms in Oz than at the time of the buyback - because we aren't letting this nonsense beat us. It is a pain, no argument about that - though AFAIK there are jurisdictions in the US which are about as bad.

Of course there are also literally millions of "off-licence" firearms around too. The buyback netted, according to the most optimistic estimates, no more than 20% of the banned firearms which were officially sold here, let alone all the others which have been brought in unofficially. Those prepared to go down that path have no difficulty getting what they want.

On the plus side, hunting here isn't subject to anywhere near the restrictions, crowding and so forth you guys put up with. We have vast amounts of space and abundant species we can hunt with little or no restriction whenever we please - I've just come back from a few days of it. I'd be a lot keener about moving to the US if it wasn't for the need to get licences, tags etc in order to hunt in a little patch the size of a football field with thousands of others in a season only long enough to ensure we're all there at the same time

 

[Sharps-shooter]

Here in Minnesota, in the USA, you can complete a transaction in about one minute. There is no restriction on selling a firearm from one private party to another. We call this "Freedom". The same way I can sell a swimming pool, 5-gallon bucket, automobile or services as a medical doctor to another private party....All of those things kill more people than guns.

You have to jump through a lot of hoops to sell services as a medical doctor legally. The licensing process takes years. Partially because it's much more dangerous than a gun. An incompetent shooter might eventually kill someone. An incompetent physician is basically a serial killer.

 

[pharmer]

"I have to wonder. Is America utterly alone on gun rights and self-defense?" YES. Remember, Australians, like the rest of the "empire", are SUBJECTS. Joe

 

[Creature]

If you aren't a member right now, JOIN THE NRA!

 

[bumm]

Appsy was saying
>im not against the laws but im also not all for
> them at the end of the day they DO let me enjoy
> my sport even if it is alot of stuffing around
> and it dose stop alot of people who should NOT
> have guns from getting guns they are strict yes
> but i still own alot of rifles and have alot of
> fun LEGALLY!!

For me, this would be an absolute horror story. I enjoy shooting, mainly semiautomatic pistols, but live in a rural area of Iowa. No clubs, etc. around, and I really don't have the time to enter into formal competition. Under Aussie regulations, I simply wouldn't be able to enjoy my hobby. AND since I would be disarmed, my family would be less safe.
Marty

 

[eliphalet]

On the plus side, hunting here isn't subject to anywhere near the restrictions, crowding and so forth you guys put up with. We have vast amounts of space and abundant species we can hunt with little or no restriction whenever we please

I guess that depends on where you do live or hunt for sure, and/or the gun laws and a couple of things of which we don't deal with much where I live.

Just a couple of statics for the uninformed.
I grabbed these real quick off the net so won't guarantee them 100% but doubt any are off by much.

Public land in the USA
Nevada has about 68 million acres
Oregon, 25% total area
California, 14.5 million acres public
Utah 44% public land
South and North Dakota and Montana 47 million acres
Idaho 22% of total area.
That was as far as I went in a quick search.



My quick statistics must be off somewhat..
I do live in a red state BTW




I am not sure what other states do but here we can hunt on all of it outside of National Parks and a very few other restricted places.

If I want to buy or sell a gun I " just do it" from a Dealer it will take a 2 minute call which is not needed but we have to deal with US law not just our State. This pretty much includes ANY rifle or handgun with any clip capacity semi-auto or caliber. If a person wants full auto or suppressed with a couple of hundred dollar federal permit and a brackground check they are OK too, kinda a pain but I have friends that own several, I don't want one. There is a club of fellas that own and shoot full auto on a regular basis near here.

If I want to carry open or concealed outside of a city limit I don't need anything but the gun no permit necessary. If I want a loaded one in view in my car or on my person I can 99% of where I go. We can pull off the road almost anywhere and shoot on public land or in most open areas all we want as long as you use your head and are in a safe area to do so.

Not as diverse as Africa but we have some pretty nice species to hunt and eat too with plenty of tags that are a " over the counter sale".

There are places in this country I wouldn't live in on a bet because of gun laws and a couple of reasons I won't get into.
I left a going business 20 years ago because of this. I stated " I would rather work at the Circle K ( mini-mart) than live here. It has cost me momentarily a lot but i am a lot happier and wouldn't go back. I like my freedom it is far to precious to me to be living under such oppressive laws as some of my fellow citizens do.
Just me I guess.
Rant over!

 

[Odd Job]

deleted.

 

[feedthehogs]

Appsy,
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you started this thread to combat some misinformation that has been posted in other threads about your gun laws.

Specifically the one where some pro gun organizations have put out videos touting the supposed total ban on firearm ownership?

While your laws I'm sad to say do not reflect what we have here in the states by any means, knowing the truth makes us that more aware of what can happen.

Thanks.

Daniel,
While hunting can be a hassle at times, I'd much rather be able to own, carry and use a firearm for personal protection.
After all, hunting don't mean much when your lying dead on the floor from an intruders gunshot.

 

[Blackbeard]

Geez, do you need permission to pee, too? Or to you need a class P permit?

 

[ConfuseUs]

Category A =
1. a miniature cannon under 120 cm in barrel length that is a Black powder and muzzle loading cannon
2. an air rifle;
3. a blank-fire firearm at least 75 cm in length;
4. a rimfire rifle (other than a self-loading rimfire rifle);
5. a single or double barrel shotgun;
6. a powerhead.

For a while I sat here and wondered what sort of awesome firearm a powerhead might be (and thus, why I should go get one). Just as I start to post I realize it's that nail driving thingy we buy at the hardware store in the time it takes to wait in line at the cashier. Ouch.

 

[AlaskaErik]

ok so you decide you want that sexy Glock pistol in the counter this is how you get it

Here's how I got my Glock 23...I went to the store, picked one out, gave the clerk US$398.20, and walked out with it. No fuss, no muss. I can carry it concealed...no permit required. And I can use it to defend myself if I feel my life is in danger.

 

[Regolith]

ConfuseUS: I just did a search, and it turns out a powerhead is a type of underwater firearm. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangstick

Pretty cool if your hunting sharks.

 

[daniel (australia)]

Pharmer

Remember, Australians, like the rest of the "empire", are SUBJECTS

Funny how this nonsense, or a variant of it, appears in just about every thread where Australia is mentioned.

Australia is not part of the British Empire, and hasn't been since the adoption of the Statute of Westminster 1931. In fact FWIW there is no Empire any more. In further news, Australians are, as a matter of law, citizens, not subjects.

You'd have done better to point out that, unlike almost all other contries, we have no explicit rights set out in our constitution: our Founding Fathers, unlike yours, had far to much faith in the Government they were creating. That is the reason we are where we are.

Eliphalet

I had a quick look at the processes for getting licences and tags for, say, deer or turkey in Nevada - we have none of that. All that stuff about applying and going in a ballot to maybe get a tag to shoot a turkey in the few days granted for a season Having said that though we have the land area but less than 10% of the population, and a huge supply of successful ferals, so there aren't the same pressures.

Feedthehogs

In relation to the self-defence thing I don't disagree with you. The thing is that until a scant few years ago we had much the same laws, and people here could and did carry. The laws changed pretty much overnight.

Of course, if you do have firearms you can use them in direct response to a deadly threat, but the ordinary citizen can't (legally) carry for self defence nor use "self-defence" as the reason justifying their acquisition - this was an explicit provision of the laws introduced post the Port Arthur massacre .

Confusedus

No, a powerhead is a device for killing sharks. It usually is designed to slip onto a handspear, and carries a cartridge (usually .303) which is fired on the powerhead striking the shark.

 

[Australian Shooter]

On the plus side, hunting here isn't subject to anywhere near the restrictions, crowding and so forth you guys put up with. We have vast amounts of space and abundant species we can hunt with little or no restriction whenever we please

But I have to say that hunting with handguns is illegal in all states and territories. In the US, people have the right to hunt with handguns but we don't, this I believe is a major restriction.

 

[E20thLRP]

Hay Appsy.... Can you own Full Auto weapons or is that another license?

We Should not forget that the spark witch ignited the American Revolution
was caused by the British attempt to Confiscate the firearms of the
Colonists.....Apr. 19 1775 Echo...out

Join....The NRA....And ...GOA
http://wwwgunowners.org

 

[Australian Shooter]

Full auto firearms ownership in Australia? Sadly the answer is NO

(Although full auto comes under Category R in Queensland but thats mainly for firearms identification purposes, not licencing purposes.)

 

[Regolith]

I had a quick look at the processes for getting licences and tags for, say, deer or turkey in Nevada - we have none of that. All that stuff about applying and going in a ballot to maybe get a tag to shoot a turkey in the few days granted for a season Having said that though we have the land area but less than 10% of the population, and a huge supply of successful ferals, so there aren't the same pressures.

Nevada is the driest state in the United States. Combined with massive over grazing by livestock, this causes the local population of native game species to be very low, both in density and in numbers. Lotteries for game tags are essential in Nevada to prevent the over-hunting of the big game species.

It should be noted that Turkey aren't exactly native to Nevada, either. They have been introduced, and have extremely low numbers.

However, Nevada isn't typical of many states. In the Eastern United States, you can buy a game tag for deer over the counter, no lottery required.

The tags themselves are there to fund conservation efforts in the states, and they also help fund the state Fish and Wildlife dept's. Not all game species require tags, either, though the rules very from state to state.

 

[eliphalet]

and a huge supply of successful ferals, so there aren't the same pressures.

Nevada did have a many feral donkeys left from miners of over 100 years ago. We were never allowed to hunt the cute and cuddly donkeys as they destroyed the environment. They were rounded up checked up fed penned then " adopted for a pittance by the populace as a substantial cost to the tax payer, into the millions I suspect.
Northern Nevada is one of my favorites to ride the motorcycle across but I am north of there.

 

[eliphalet]

and a huge supply of successful ferals, so there aren't the same pressures.

What type of animals do you hunt?
Much of this country has a wild hog population but not here.
Nevada did have many feral donkeys left from miners of over 100 years ago. We were never allowed to hunt the cute and cuddly donkeys as they destroyed the environment. They were rounded up, checked up, fed, penned, and then " adopted for a pittance by the populace as a substantial cost to the tax payer, into the millions I suspect.
Northern Nevada is one of my favorites to ride the motorcycle across but I am north of there.