Shooting a pistol one-handed

[Frank Ettin]

I have found that many students forget it is a handgun and not a handsgun. You can do quite well shooting one handrd...

So true. If you have good trigger control, you can get good hits one handed or two handed, on your feet, on your belly, on your back, on your knees, on one leg, etc. If you have good trigger control, you can get good hits whether you index on the target using the sights or using one of the various point shooting techniques. But if you're jerking or otherwise abusing the trigger, you won't get good hits -- one handed, two handed or three handed.

 

[mercop]

I don't recall being concerned with the trigger pull in incidents I was involved in...or the sights. I was concerned with the threat. Actually being involved in a shooting changed the way I trained and what I thought was important.

This is not to mean that I do not think that marksmanship is not important, it is. I commented during the NRA instructors courses (the best in the world for basics) that it was funny how when teaching pistol and rifle they spoke about sight picture, eye dominance etc and then when it came to shotgun and you shoot skeet you don't aim or close an eye. You track the movement with both eyes open, point the gun and fire. That is the way it really is, YMMV.- George

 

[SpecialKalltheway]

I went shooting with a buddy that used to be a firearms instructor in the Air Force. We set our targets at 25 meters and went to town with 50 rounds each. I was shooting my Beretta 8045 mini cougar with the short magazine and he had a Taurus .40 caliber something or other. When we brought our targets in he was bragging about how he did better than me(the Army representative in this Air vs Army shoot off). I just told him that while all his bullets were grouped closer to center mass I couldn't help but notice that he had two hands on the gun while I shot 25 rounds with my right hand only and 25 with my left only. Everyone of my shots hit the silhouette, just not all of them center mass.

When i asked him if he wanted to try again he for some reason didn't want to

 

[Frank Ettin]

I don't recall being concerned with the trigger pull in incidents I was involved in...

I suspect that you're a pretty high mileage shooter. And I'm sure that your trigger control is very well programed to the point that it's reflexive. In other words, you don't have to think about it. You do it right automatically.

...I commented during the NRA instructors courses ... that it was funny how when teaching pistol and rifle they spoke about sight picture, eye dominance etc and then when it came to shotgun and you shoot skeet you don't aim or close an eye. You track the movement with both eyes open, point the gun and fire....

True, wingshooting is different. I've taught and coached that myself (and am NRA certified in shotgun), hunt upland birds and shoot ATA trap competitively.

I still think with a rifle or pistol, the first order of business is to program good trigger skills. I'll go to the range and watch the guy in the lane near me poking holes all over a large silhouette at seven yards. You know his problem isn't sight alignment. At seven yards he should be able to get every round into at least 8 inches just by sticking the gun out toward the target -- if he could just manage to avoid jerking, mashing or otherwise abusing the trigger.

BTW, I shoot pistols and rifles with both eyes open.

 

[Al Thompson]

I don't recall being concerned with the trigger pull in incidents I was involved in...or the sights.

I think that may have been due to your skill set already on hand. "Unconcious competence" means you can devote a major portion of your attention to the threat.

IMHO, if someone who is not "switched on" reads this, they'll think you can ignore the sights and trigger control. I agree with fiddletown that you can't. One of our local departments got into this point shooting technique and went overboard. Last two shootings generated two non-lethal (and one of those was non-effective) shoulder shots. There were over 25 shots fired in those two encounters.

Also IMHO, sights and stance depend on the threat proximity. That great video clip you posted showed a rapidly (!) closing threat and the shooter doing good by getting out of the way. As the slasher closed, the two handed techniques went out the window - as it should have. I suspect we don't address balance and quick movement as well as we should in training.

 

[mercop]

I am an OK shooter. Been doing it and teaching it for a while. Just never differentiated between the open hand, stick, knife or firearms. Just focused on the fight. All of your tools must become and extension of your body. Some people seem to forget that just because you can drive a screw with a hammer does not mean you shouldn't use a screwdriver if you can.- George

 

[sm]

A pistol is simply a tool.

Note: I am in a pretty bad mood, so don't take anything personal.


Damn Louise!

Software not Hardware.

There is no Holy Grail , or Absolutes in any of this staying safe.
I don't give a rip what the latest hot babe in a movie did, or some swinging richard in a video game does.

Firearms are just part of the tools in the toolbox, and a pistol is just one of the tools in the firearm compartment of a tool box.

No tool is ever better than the user of said tool.

Learn the correct basic fundamentals of using the Software of the tool ; then learn the correct basic fundamentals of the Hardware part of using the tool.

Get the foundation built first, then build upon that foundation with more Software, and Hardware.

When a person screws up, it can always be traced back to something they did not do, as they were supposed to, at the level of the Correct Basic Fundamentals.

I am so <explective-ing> fed up reading about "Us vs Them" in regard to how to use a tool.

Hell, I competed before we had all these gun games. Plus we did not use all these guns and gear set up as folks do today.
The folks in the early days, did not need all this crap, and they had Software first, and knowing how to run the Hardware, as well.

If that meant shooting one handed, weak handed, supine, shooting up and back over their head, these ladies and gents did it.

Competition is fine and dandy, but I got fed up with some attitudes before some around here were even an itch in their daddy's britches, and tore up club memberships, and sanctioned cards and walked off from some things.

There is a helluva lot a person can learn from IDPA/IPSC , 3 Gun, Bullseye, Cowboy Action and other shooting disciplines, if first they shut the hell up, and have a open mind and willingness to learn.

By the same token, some folks that do participate in these gun games need to shut the hell up and quit cramming down throats , because they have an attitude of being superior and some kind of Deity's gift to shooters

There is a helluva lot these quality, sincere, humble, folks in gun games with the correct attitude can share with those in the Military, LEO and with J.Q. Public.

Yes, those in the Military and LEOs can learn a helluva lot from those in gun games.

And good old country gals and boys can teach all the above a thing or two, and learn from them as well.

First off, it ain't the damn gun. It is YOU.
This is Software.
This is Mindset.

Second, we have Skill set.

Then we have Tool set, which is using Hardware.

I learned to shoot revolvers first at age 3. Most kids it is suggested they start with single shot rifles.
I was raised into high risk, therefore Mentors started me out with handguns first.
Handguns are on person.

Two hand hold, and best described as Weaver.
It could had some Chapman mixed in, heck if I remember, and heck, I call what I do at my age today "Bifocal Weaver-ish".

Meaning, I don't give a rip what it is called. All I care about is Software, then Hardware, and doing what I do correctly each and every damn time.


All shooting is, is doing the correct basic fundamentals over and over and over again.
Sure, we get smoother, then faster, and build upon the correct basic fundamentals, still all shooting is, is repeating the basics.

That is why when you screw up, it is because you screwed up one or more of the basics.

You cannot buy a damn gun, or any piece of equipment, that will magically do the correct basic fundamentals for you.

I don't give a rip if you are Military, LEO, J.Q. Public, or compete in IDPA/IPSC, 3 Gun, Bulls Eye, Cowboy Action, Skeet, Trap, 5 stand, Sporting Clays, Live Pigeon, Columbaire or any damn thing else.

Just because you are "in" or participate "in" does not mean you are the only swinging richard, or richard-ette, that is right.


You parachute out, and end up in trees, you might need to shoot one handed to keep the enemy from killing you.

If you are on the ground, assisting another, and not even a medic, you might have to shoot one-handed to keep the enemy from killing you, the person you are giving aid to, or extracting.

If you are a cop, you might have to shoot one handed as you have a child in arms trying to keep them safe by physically moving them to a safe spot away from armed robbers.
Military might have to as well, for similar reasons.

Vehicles: Military , LEO, J.Q. Public again, and again, one handed is a tool in the tool box.
So would weak hand and some other things.

It is normal for the human body to focus on the gun, and for those shooting , to shoot the gun and area near the gun. It does not matter if Military, LEO,or J.Q.Public...or Criminal.

You get shot where the gun you have is, you might have to shoot one handed.
This might mean transition to weak hand, or draw a second gun with weak hand.

True.
Mentor of mine and his partner, members of a HRT/SWAT were off duty and in jeans.
Out to eat, shooting the bull, being humans.
They decided to check on something since they were not far from a part of town.

First shot rang out, killing Mentors partner.
Second shot hit Mentor as he was pulling his partner back with strong hand.

He drew weak hand, shot BG 1 as he fell forward, and Shot BG 2 as he literally bounced back up.
Three dead, he survived.

So knowing one handed, weak hand, supine, canted, and <gasp> point shooting and other things are just part of the tool box, not 'the' tool box.

First, you have to have correct basic fundamentals. You gotta have Mindset, you gotta have a Willingness to learn, and Willingness to Survive.


I am fed up with folks hanging a shingle and some of the instructing and training they "promote".

Gurus need students, and some students need a guru. -some of us

When it comes to choosing whom will instruct you , you need to ask some serious, brutally, honest questions.

-Why are you interested in taking this class, or following this "method", "ideology" or "doctrine?

If is is cool boyz points and another pc of paper from a Guru, go circle jerk , have fun, just don't expect that to keep you alive.
Stay the hell away from me...and for sure don't try to cram that crap down my throat.
I get a bit testy and have no problem letting you know where I stand and how I feel about things.

If it is "burning a crapload of ammo", well, good luck with that. At least most of "that".
Some quality instructors and classes do go through some ammo during classes.
Lots more just take your money, stroke you along, and let you have your orgasmic experience and send you home with a pc of paper and that spent feeling.

-What do you expect to learn?

You had better show up with a willingness to learn, notebook, pencil and pen.

A quality instructor, will have "tools in the toolbox" to assist students.
Meaning they "have methods" not "the method".

Each one of us is different, and these quality instructors have the ability to read the student and access them.
Be this private lessons, or class setting.

i.e.
Bulls Eye, do you do best with weak hand in pocket, or along your weak side pants seam?

Do you shoot best Chapman, Weaver, or Isosceles?
Furthermore, do you shoot some presentations best with one of these stances and others with other stances?

In shooting weak handed, do you need to cant the gun, and if so perhaps cant more or less than someone else due to YOUR eye dominance?

One hand shooting is just another tool in the toolbox.


I will not be at your gunfight - Awerbuck

 

[Diamondback6]

Well said, SM--the only "one size fits all" is that Mindset-Skillset-Toolset progression; note emphasis on set, as only one tool and only one way to use it is like going out onto a golf course you know nothing about, not even having a weather forecast, and only bringing your 7-iron.

What works for one of us may not for another, and while I train some with both hands, I also do a lot of one-hand training because 1. it's what my body seems to naturally "snap into" for a ready stance and 2. because I refuse to operate on the assumption that a support hand will make it to the appointment--if it does, great, but I'd rather rely on having a Plan B than on hope/unicorn farts & pixie dust/other uncertainties.

Besides, with my 1911 at 8+1, the other hand may be grabbing a mag for the reload... or it may be putting a New York Reload into play.

 

[Deaf Smith]

Due to sparring over the years I have broke my strong side hand once and jammed fingers several times.

I found not only could there be times I need to shoot one handed, I might very well shoot weak side one handed!

How many of you have hurt your strong side? Infected fingers? Jammed finger joints? Wrist hurt? Elbow hurt? Arthritis? Broken bones?

Now think about that. And that is why I can shoot with either hand, and I'm not ambidextrous.

 

[RyanM]

I'm not sure if you're agreeing or disagreeing with me, or just commenting on the "industry" in general, SM, but I agree with you 100%.

One hand shooting is just another tool in the toolbox.

Essentially what I've been saying, though some people have decided to think I'm saying that one-handed shooting is the best at everything, and the best for everything.

What I'm proposing though, is that perhaps, for people who are buying a handgun principly to defend themselves from a violent attacker at close range, one-handed shooting (and I'd advocate one-handed point-shooting) may be the best tool to get first, then gradually fill up the toolbox as (or if) time and money and other resources permit.

If I can only afford one tool for now, am I better off with a hammer or a screwdriver?

I just know that at least in my case, Shooting to Live was a very real, very effective "fast track" to basic proficiency at ranges where a subcompact handgun is meant to be used. If I'd stuck with just that, there's no way I'd be able to print tight groups at 25 yards or whatever. But I'd be able to draw and put 2 or 3 holes within a few inches of each other in under 5 seconds, within 5-7 yards. I can do a little better than that now, after lots more practice, but one-handed point shooting got solid hits from the first shot and on.

 

[Frank Ettin]

What I'm proposing though, is that perhaps, for people who are buying a handgun principly to defend themselves from a violent attacker at close range, one-handed shooting (and I'd advocate one-handed point-shooting) may be the best tool to get first,..

Everybody's looking for a short cut. Maybe if we had a pill you could just take.

Thing is, I personally don't know of any good short cuts, and I don't know how good is good enough. I'm not sure anyone can really say "You only have to be this good and this is how you get there quickly." Yes we know that most violent encounters are short range affairs. But no one can predict exactly how his particular "bad day" will unfold, nor what particular minimum skill set will be needed to prevail.

That guy poking holes all over a large silhouette was shooting slow fire in the relatively stress free environment of a shooting range. He still could not count on hitting a human size target COM at seven yards. And under stress, performance deteriorates significantly. And he is not unique. That sort of abysmal shooting is more the rule than the exception. If he gets into a fight with a gun, he is going to pepper the countryside with bullets, and his survival may well be doubtful.

If you're happy with your performance, swell. Have at it and more power to you. However, based on my training and experience, I don't think I'll sign on.

...I'd be able to draw and put 2 or 3 holes within a few inches of each other in under 5 seconds, within 5-7 yards...

BTW, standard at Gunsite and most other schools is 2 hits COM from leather in 1.5 seconds at 7 yards.

 

[RyanM]

BTW, standard at Gunsite and most other schools is 2 hits COM from leather in 1.5 seconds at 7 yards.

Which would illustrate the difference between about $2000, 1,000 rounds of factory ammo, and plane tickets, compared to $5 for a book and... checking again... Fairbairn recommended 36 rounds for initial training of police officers, and 30 rounds per year to maintain proficiency.

Gunsite training would also be relatively low-stress compared to life and death.

 

[sm]

RyanM,

I knew what the intent of your OP was, and I appreciate you sharing your thoughts and experiences.

The problems are:

-Everybody wants an easier, softer way.

-Ego and Pride.

-The easiest way to build up an ego is to tear down the ego of someone else.

-Marketing.

-Rationalization and Qualification.

Since the beginning of mankind these things have been part of the problem,and not part of the solution.

Ug had a rock and tossed it over hand.
Hulu, his wife took that rock and tossed it underhand.
Og showed up and tossed it sideways.

Og called Ug an idiot for tossing a rock over hand and said if a guy tossed a rock underhand "you throw like a girl".

This is the History of "Us vs Them".
It ain't changed much, and not expected to either. *smile*

Oh, and it was Ug's sister, Oogalu, that invented BBQ mitts.
Yes, while the guys were sticking fingers and hands in fires and getting burned, Oogalu just snagged some big thick leaves, and snagged the food out of the fire using these leaves as one does BBQ mitts, and did not burn her fingers.

Hulu, having smaller hands, used smaller leaves and so that is where "oven mitts" comes from.

Now you know, not only that BBQ mitts come first, who invented them, how oven mitts come to be, also I paid attention in a suthern publik skool as a kId.

Then whats-his-name (Mikey? no, that is not it, Aga, yeah) Aga had a stick, and showed folks what his wife did up the side of his head with it. So he come up with Stick.

His wife Euga, is the one that come up with poking sticks into food for cooking over a fire.

See?
Rock and Sticks and these tools were part of the tool box for all sorts of stuff from being safe, to non-defensive means.

None were "the tool box" , just, "part of the tool box", and, well, as I said, all that other garbage has been around forever too, still is, and that is why everyone is so screwed up.


*gRin*

 

[conw]

kyo, just messing with you

Somehow I suspect guys who hold their guns at 90 deg are already poor mathematicians though...

 

[kyo]

yea bad math =bad shooting. Its like playing pool with a bullet.

 

[conw]

This rap's from the guy packin at 90 degrees
i'll have your wallet, have you runnin' or down on your knees
I never took instruction and I rarely take a bath
I hold my gun like this 'cause I'm not good at math
I don't point shoot and I don't aim my gun
But terrorizing innocent people sure is fun
So I'll continue with my cant right at 90 degrees
At least I think that's what it is, don't make me do the math please

 

[Frank Ettin]

Which would illustrate the difference between about $2000, 1,000 rounds of factory ammo, and plane tickets, compared to $5 for a book...

So what's your life worth?

The important question is what is good enough? Will 2 to 3 hits in 5 seconds be good enough to survive? Will 2 hits in 1.5 seconds be good enough? No one knows. Even the best can lose; but the better you are, I think the better your chances will be. Remember that the 1.5 seconds comes from the fact that an assailant with an impact weapon can cover 7 yards in about 1.5 seconds.

...Fairbairn recommended 36 rounds for initial training of police officers, and 30 rounds per year to maintain proficiency....

First, that was a long time ago, the 1930s in fact. Second, Fairburn had a very well defined task: to train Shanghai police to some "acceptable" level as quickly and as cheaply as possible. It's just possible that we've learned a few things in the last 70+ years.

Gunsite training would also be relatively low-stress compared to life and death.

All training is pretty low stress compared to life and death. Does that mean we shouldn't train? Force-on-force comes the closest to a serious stress level. Does that mean that the only useful training is force-on-force?

Training in a group with an instructor does raise the stress ante a bit. With the instructors and other students watching you, you tend to be highly motivated not to make a fool of yourself. That induces some stress. And you need to not make a fool of yourself safely. There are certain dangers associated with training in a group. You have a bunch of folks walking around with loaded guns and performing live fire drills in a group; and these drills may involve turning or other movement. In addition, I can tell you from my personal experience that going through a shoot house at Gunsite is a genuine adrenalin rush.

Of course the need to develop a level of proficiency under stress is one reason that USPSA or IDPA competition is useful. It's not a place to learn self defense and tactics. It is an excellent way to learn and practice skills like safe gun handling, moving safely with a loaded weapon, shooting from unconventional postures, target acquisition, shooting fast and accurately, reloading, etc., all under the stress of competition.

 

[kyo]

some training is done with shooting one handed without having a hurt hand. if you are moving a specific direction and your body is facing a certain way, it is an advantage to shoot one handed. my groups at a high speed of fire aren't bad at all one handed. in the end it all comes to what you do under the stress. does it matter that you did it one handed if you survived? no

 

[Ned Kelly]

I enjoy shooting pistols one handed. It requires more discipline and it is more rewarding.

I always thought pistols were shot one handed as a small child. My dad was a quick draw shooter. I always saw him shoot with one hand and never considered people did otherwise till I saw it on cop shows onTV.

In the westerns they always did it one handed.

 

[sm]

IDPA/IPSC being mentioned brings up a memory or two.

Bear in mind I was born in 1955.

Not long before grandma died, so I was five years old getting close to age six.
I am in a shoot house, and the set up was BGs in the house and I was to retreat, and shoot if BGs came to where I retreated.

Both hands, and I could not miss the targets, from kneeling, sitting or prone.
Yeah I was feeling pretty smug about how well I was doing...

Grandma had this laugh.
Mentors tossed a stuffed dawg at me and said "pretend that is a baby, and the little brat wants to crawl out from behind cover".

Rut Roh. Now I have to hold this "brat" with one hand and shoot threats with the other.

Did I mention Mentors tied a cord to this stuffed dawg? Yeah, and they tugged the stupid cord.

Grandma is laughing, I mean it bad enough I am not doing nearly as well [read: I missing big time], but my own darn grandma is laughing!

I did, I missed a moving scarecrow, that was adult size from less than 5 yards, from prone, one handed.
I was not feeling smug. No, in fact I felt pretty stupid if the truth be known.
As always mentors asked what they always did, and always would:

Young'un, what did you learn?

I get bigger, grandma is gone, and a similar set up. Third grade, as JFK had been shot in Dallas.

Now I got live fire, folks screaming, yelling, cursing , lights are low, and mentors done stuck a sock over my weak hand and arm up to elbow and "you done got shot, now whatcha gonna do?"

Now understand, I started at age 3, and even then not all my targets stayed still, or were flat. Most targets from the get-go, were three dimensional, and the bigger I got, the more targets moved, and the more other things were added to my lessons, like not hitting innocents, hostages, or the family dawg or ...

I remember standing there watching a dad teach his daughter to shoot at a flat target, and she was using both hands.

What is this stationary target bidness?
What is with the target being flat and face on?

I never got any of this, that I remember. At age 3, I shot some tin cans and then one day the can moved just as I was about to shoot it.
Grandma, laughing...
String tied to can and another mentor pulled the string.

"Everything is always moving. If the target is not moving, you are moving or both. We will not teach you to become a programmed shooter, instead mobile, flexible, and adaptable..." - gist of what she said and I heard all the time and still do.


So time passes and I show up to shoot for fun this IDPA/ ISPC dealie for practice.
Sure enough, there is a stage where one is prone, and one has to hold onto a child.
I know grandma and mentors were grinning.
I was shooting for fun, and I was one of the top folks on that stage that day.

Another stage, was at the ATM, and having to shoot the threats, one handed, as one had a child in arms.
Another was sitting on the couch and giving a baby a bottle...when threats appeared.

Difficult? Hey, this is stuff Mentors had me do back when.


So having spent time with ladies, one "set up" is while they are nursing or giving a bottle.

Just another something guys often do not think about...
This was a long time ago, and how raised, and how me and mine did "lessons" and "set ups".

Before IDPA/IPSC and so forth.
To me, those old antiquated lessons are priceless! I miss the mentors, and all I have left is memories and what they passed forward to me.

It was not the guns, or ammo, as we run what we had, instead it was correct basic fundamentals and thinking.
Just common sense, thinking on your feet, with a gun and knowing how to run the gun.

If you need to reach around and shoot one handed, do it.

Watch Jesse Abbate shoot this stage and pay attention to the last shots.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0K6h7Nkxm8U&feature=related

Mentors had a similar "set up" , starting from recline, when I was around ten years old, making this about 1965.
For me, shooting weak hand only (one handed) afforded me the best way to handle a few presentations from how mentors set this up.
This again was in a shoot house they had built.

Shooting indoors differs from shooting outdoors.
See for yourself, set up exact shooting presentations indoors and outdoors, and then shoot them.

The more tools in the tool box, the better one is able to choose the better tool for task.

That said, one is wise to have learned correct basic fundamentals, or those tools in the tool box might as well be soggy oatmeal.

 

[RyanM]

So what's your life worth?

Counterquestion; how soon is soon enough, when it comes to training? Let's say it would take me a year to save up to go to whatever tacticool class everyone raves about (actually, it'd take longer than that).

What training would you recommend that costs less than $50, including ammo and transportation, and takes one day to gain proficiency in, as an interim measure, for that one year? I'd recommend Shooting to Live.

First, that was a long time ago, the 1930s in fact. Second, Fairburn had a very well defined task: to train Shanghai police to some "acceptable" level as quickly and as cheaply as possible. It's just possible that we've learned a few things in the last 70+ years.

And you'll remember, the idea of this whole thread is to figure out the quickest and cheapest way to gain very basic proficiency.

The best training is all well and good, but how about when you have all the cash on hand, and it still takes a bare minimum of about a month to register for a class, take time off work, and book plane tickets, then what?

If I can get a Glock in a month or a Raven .25 right now, guess what I'm going to pick? Meanwhile, the Raven wouldn't set me back enough to not be able to afford the Glock in a month. That doesn't mean that a Raven is my first choice. What's available is available, what's affordable is affordable, and what isn't, just plain isn't.

Things we've learned in the last 70+ years? How to waste massive quantities of money on the latest and greatest, when the tried and true is still good enough.

I don't use Shooting to Live as my primary shooting technique any longer, but I do not pretend to have "graduated" beyond it. It's still a very useful technique in many cases. The "on paper" performance, rounds per second, milimeters away from the bullseye, may suck. But it has its place.

---

Oh, and SM, that caveman story reminds me of something. Was it you who said something about an old trick to tighten up 00 buckshot patterns was to crack open the crimp and remove one of the pellets, leaving 8, and then close it back up again? I distinctly remember a story about how the normal 9-pellet full power buckshot loads were fine for big stuff like wooly mammoths, but for sabre-toothed tigers, you needed something that put the pellets closer together. The Thog twins solved the problem by inventing the bangstick, by tying a stick to the shotgun trigger, replacing the stock with a pole, and throwing it like a spear. But you decided to try removing a pellet just to see what happened.

Am I remembering wrong?

Seriously, though, I'm going to write up a small thing for the shotgun forum as to whether removing a pellet improved the "new" Estate buckshot any. I've got 5 rounds prepared that way, and might do 5 more. Just waiting to see if it ever stops raining before the trumpets of Armageddon. If it works, Estate might be a good deal again (though Cabelas hiked the price by $20 per case since I bought it). And if it was your idea in the first place, you should get credit.

 

[mercop]

Ryan, you are spot on.- George

 

[Frank Ettin]

...What training would you recommend that costs less than $50, including ammo and transportation, and takes one day to gain proficiency in, as an interim measure, for that one year? I'd recommend Shooting to Live....

I'm not going to try to work within your artificial budget. And based on my training and experience, I would not recommend 70+ old Shanghai police doctrine for today's world.

I think good, basic preparation, probably available locally for several hundred dollars, would be the combination of NRA Basic Pistol, Personal Protection Inside the Home and Personal Protection Outside the Home. Alternatively, one might consider just Basic Pistol augmented by DVDs from Gunsite or Thunder Ranch. Joining a local IDPA club and competing would also help. IME, fellow shooters will offer a great deal of valuable guidance for free.

I don't have anything to offer for $50, and I have no magic for someone who is unwilling to, or can't, take the time and make the investment in some more adequate training. I don't have to be all things for all people.

And there's such a thing as reality. One will become only as proficient as he is willing to invest the time, effort and money into becoming. You have reached your level of proficiency. If you're satisfied, good for you. I would not be.

I don't use Shooting to Live as my primary shooting technique any longer, but I do not pretend to have "graduated" beyond it. It's still a very useful technique in many cases....

How do you know it's a useful technique in many cases? You recently graduated from college. Do you have the length and depth of life experience to make that assessment?

 

[mercop]

As far as I can tell people still respond to combat stress the same way they did 70 yrs ago.

The problem has been the emphasis on tools and toys instead of overall survival in violent scenarios. You can have tools and toys shipped to your house, you cannot do that with training and experience. - George

 

[mcdonl]

ryan... sorry about my comment. As things progressed I see dedication is not really an issue with you. I guess you meant dedicated to learning a two handed method...?

None-the-less... good thread.

Leroy