Shooting from a rest to test pistol accuracy-How?

[egd]

That may be a dumb question, but I have trouble getting consistent testing groups. I have tried different techniques and I get different groupings even with the same loads.
I have one of those rests from Caldwell that screws to raise or lower. If I rest the front of the barrel on it I have a hard time getting a good tight grip on the gun. Plus, I wonder should I put any downward pressure on front of the gun to try to keep the barrel tighter against the rest?
I have also tried just keeping my "normal" grip but resting my hands on something, like my bag or such. The barrel is then free and not supported but I seem to get a better grip. I think. I've also tried a similar method but just resting my forearms on the bag with my hands hanging over the bag.
So that's where I am.:banghead:
How do you all test for accuracy when working up loads?

 

[9mmepiphany]

There is a bit of a difference between testing the accuracy of different loads vs. zeroing a pistol. In either case, your technique is a bit off.

I don't quite understand how the rest prevents you from getting a good grip on the gun

For testing a load, you're looking for consistency. You'll want to reduce outside influences as much as possible...that's why they invented the Ransom Rest.
1. Do not put downward pressure on the barrel...just rest the gun on the forward rest
2. Do not overgrip the gun...a more relaxed grip is better
3. A Six-o'clock hold will give you a more consistent sight picture
4. Do not make the shot go off...let it go off by itself by steadily increasing pressure on the face of the trigger in a straight line to the rear.

To zero a gun
1. Rest the dustcover (not the slide) on the front rest
2. Support your wrist...not your forearms or the butt of the gun
3. Bisect the POA with the top of the front sight blade
4. Same trigger press as above.

When I zero a pistol or revolver, I usually support my wrist with a sandbag and the front of the gun with my rangebag

 

[vaalpens]

When I zero a pistol or revolver, I usually support my wrist with a sandbag and the front of the gun with my rangebag

Thanks 9mmepiphany!

I normally use either a range bag to support my wrist (mostly revolver load testing), or a rest to support the gun (mostly pistol load testing). I have never tried to use both at the same, but I think it makes sense.

I will definitely report back after my next load evaluation session.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I have never tried to use both at the same, but I think it makes sense.

It depends on the weight of the gun and how far you're shooting.

Out to 25 yards, a range bag under your wrist should be more than adequate...you just need to let the gun steady itself, rather then try to muscle it. At 50 yards, I like a little more support

 

[matrem]

egd,
Ideally, let the front half of the pistol rest solid on sandbags or such while the butt rests on something solid like a concrete or wood bench.

If you're only interested in the capabilities of the gun, remove yourself as completely as possible, as in just make sure it goes bang with as little of your input as possible.

 

[egd]

OK maybe I should explain a little more. First off, and this is a gray area for me, I'm gripping trying to not limp wrist the gun. All the "advice" out there says to grip firmly-downward grip with off hand- yada yada. In other words, a really firm grip. My thinking was to try to get the same grip as if I was just plain shooting at targets.
When I say forearm, it's close to my wrist, but maybe not right on the wrist.
I don't have any sandbags but I think I'll try to find some. 9mm, your description is just what I was looking for. I'm going to try to rig that up. I need something that is comfortable as well as consistent and I haven't found the right combination yet, but that sounds good.

 

[9mmepiphany]

First off, and this is a gray area for me, I'm gripping trying to not limp wrist the gun. All the "advice" out there says to grip firmly-downward grip with off hand- yada yada. In other words, a really firm grip.

You're still not very clear.

Locked wrist and grip pressure are two separate things

Only with the support hand

 

[egd]

Humm, ok, that is helpful. That's the first I've heard it put that way and it makes sense.

 

[9mmepiphany]

The primary function of the strong hand, besides pointing the gun, is to manipulate the trigger. This is easier to accomplish if the hand is less rigid.

The wrist needs to be locked to transmit the recoil forces back to the unlocked elbow, which, in the Modern Isosceles, will act like shock absorbers

 

[grandpawj]

This is an education for me as well. Egd, I am having the same problems with trying to do my load testing with my 1911 Colt. I don't seem to have any trouble testing and zeroing my 6" revolvers using the Caldwell pistol rest.

 

[35 Whelen]

I've been through this very thing and find shooting accurately from a bench with sandbags somewhat hit and miss....pun intended. My problem is with the revolver rested, I tend to subconsciously loosen my grip, especially when I'm intently focused on the sight picture, which of course causes points of impact to shift.

I have found a much better method for me to be seated, leaning back against one of the legs of my bench, with my wrists rested between my knees. Using this method I get much more consistent results and since this is the manner in which i shoot when hunting, its a win/win in my mind. Using this method I been able to shoot some really nice groups which are a huge confidence builder.
FWIW 95% of my handgun shooting is done at 50 yds. I do shoot a fair bit at that range offhand as well, but mainly to keep brushed up on trigger control.
About the only time I shoot from bags anymore is if I'm shooting at my 100 or 200 yd. steel.

35W

 

[Grumulkin]

I believe the gold standard, as far as taking the shooter out of the equation is concerned, would be the Ransom Rest. That should work with handguns of low to moderate recoil.

I generally have the front of the handgun on a rest and my hand around the butt of the handgun resting on a rabbit ear bag. That works especially well with the Encore handguns I shoot a lot.


-

 

[Carl N. Brown]

When testing loads, I try to hold the gun naturally in my hands but rest my hands on the sandbags to take arm waver, upper body sway and muscle fatigue out of the equation.

I keep my grip on the gun as consistent as I can to how I would hold it shooting standing off-hand. (In a match my hands are part of the equation, and an abstract test of loads from a locked down gun is not realistic.)

(Adding snapcaps to the magazine or cylinder load helps me catch flinching on my part when testing loads.)

 

[9mmepiphany]

I try to hold the gun naturally in my hands but rest my hands on the sandbags...

... consistent as I can to how I would hold it shooting standing off-hand.

How do you compensate for the influence of the restricted rotation, of the butt of the gun on the sandbags, on POI?

 

[Rule3]

Did the OP mention what gun,caliber,distance, barrel length etc. ???
A 2" snub nose is not gonna rest on much

A grip for a revolver is different than a semi auto

What regular Joe shooter has a ransom rest anyway?

 

[egd]

My gun is a 5" ppq. I'm glad I'm not the only one with this problem/question. there have been some informative replies and I'm definitely going to try some things out that have been suggested. Thanks
OH, I usually shoot at about 18 yds. 9mm

 

[gwpercle]

I set my shooting box on the bench, folded towel on top of box, extend arms across top of box/towel , two handed hold on handgun , do not rest gun butt on box , the gun and hands are not resting on box/towel, just your arms . Make sure no part of gun touches the box.
Careful aim and slow squeeze.
Gary

 

[9mmepiphany]

My gun is a 5" ppq.
....18 yds. 9mm

With that combination, assuming you're shooting quality ammo, your shots should all be inside an inch, if not touching

 

[egd]

Only in my dreams! I am really not that good with a pistol.
However, after I try your technique we'll see. I'd be happy with 3" and extactic with 2"

 

[vaalpens]

When I zero a pistol or revolver, I usually support my wrist with a sandbag and the front of the gun with my rangebag

Thanks 9mmepiphany!

I normally use either a range bag to support my wrist (mostly revolver load testing), or a rest to support the gun (mostly pistol load testing). I have never tried to use both at the same, but I think it makes sense.

I will definitely report back after my next load evaluation session.

I did some load evaluation this weekend, and all I can say is, thanks for the advice 9mmepiphany.

Although it was not a perfect shooting day in the desert with temperatures around 104 and flying gnats trying to distract me, my shooting results were definitely more consistent than other times. The results of my load evaluation will be posted in another thread, but I immediately realized that the range bag and rest combination made for a more stable platform.

To summarize my results; My 40s&w evaluation resulted in my best 15yard grouping for 40s&w ever, and my 38special evaluation resulted in my 5th best 10yard grouping for 38special ever. I don't think this is due to suddenly stumbling onto some great loads, but rather a combination of good loads and a better execution during the testing.

 

[Shaq]

When bench resting a handgun, the gun should not be resting on anything. The wrists should be resting on something. I have good results using my shooting bag as a rest.

 

[Potatohead]

Interesting question. Thinking it would be a more accurate way to test where my guns were hitting when I first started, I tried shooting from bags. Ended up figuring out at least for me, that standing up and going free hand (or whatever it's called) just worked better. It's possible I was doing it wrong but I just couldn't get comfortable with it.

 

[LiveLife]

For me, I do all my pistol accuracy testing with both hands resting on top of a small ice chest and no part of pistol touches the ice chest.

Tip: One thing I do with my pistols that others may not is even before I buy any pistol, I dry fire while checking the front sight. If the front sight jumps/jerks when the hammer/striker is released, I keep looking at different pistols of same model until I find one that won't move the front sight. Before I bought my last Glock, I went through like 4 pistols before I found one I was happy with (front sight was rock steady when the striker released).

My reasoning is starting with a pistol that won't move/jerk the front sight, I am starting with a better trigger that will take less work and time to smooth out to produce smaller shot groups (Remember? Trigger job is one of first things many match shooters do to their match pistols).

So when range testing, I will dry fire until I am not moving my front sight then I start shooting.

OP/others, pull out your pistol/clear it and see if the front sight moves when the hammer/striker falls.

 

[Dudedog]

Interesting question. Thinking it would be a more accurate way to test where my guns were hitting when I first started, I tried shooting from bags. Ended up figuring out at least for me, that standing up and going free hand (or whatever it's called) just worked better. It's possible I was doing it wrong but I just couldn't get comfortable with it.

Sort of in the same camp with you tater.
However my table and rest are not that great so some movement could be coming from them. (as well as operator error)

I want to know which load is best, but really what matters (to me at least) is which load I shoot the best standing two handed.

Now if only both the targets and the sights were sharp....got to pick one or the other.

Will try 9mm's advice and see if it helps.

 

[susieqz]

the nice thing about resting your wrists on a bag, with no part of the gun touching the rest, is that you don't have to change the sights to shoot freehand,
the POI will be the same.
if you rest the gun, you will have to mess with the sights to shoot freehand.