give
Member
wow,grazed on the nose too,now thats a shot that william tell would be proud of
Shot Fired at Music Festival - Another "What Would You Do" Thread
- Thread starter rainbowbob
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Oh, The Irony Is Almost Painful.....
Apparently, the old liberal adage is true: guns by themselves do trigger violent, dangerous anti-social behavior.....
In anti-gun hippies at folk music festivals who happen to see one....
Why are the lyrics to "Peace Train" running through my head?
But seriously, I think the option of getting your family the heck out of Dodge (Or Woodstock) is the sensible one. Draw and confront only if an immediate threat to you or your family presents itself. Otherwise, place some real estate between you and the problem. Neapoi's wife did the right thing...leave posthaste.
This almost sounds like an outtake from A MIGHTY WIND.
Apparently, the old liberal adage is true: guns by themselves do trigger violent, dangerous anti-social behavior.....
In anti-gun hippies at folk music festivals who happen to see one....
Why are the lyrics to "Peace Train" running through my head?
But seriously, I think the option of getting your family the heck out of Dodge (Or Woodstock) is the sensible one. Draw and confront only if an immediate threat to you or your family presents itself. Otherwise, place some real estate between you and the problem. Neapoi's wife did the right thing...leave posthaste.
This almost sounds like an outtake from A MIGHTY WIND.
FourTeeFive
Member
Kind of funny in this land of hiking vests, backpacks and laptop cases that the guy got "made" with his ankle holster. Few guns work well in an ankle holster, much less the short but chunky small Glocks.
Recently I was at the Costco gas station and saw your Average Neighbor type middle aged guy pumping gas. What wasn't average was that he was wearing a tight clinging athletic shirt over his not-so-tight too-many-hotdogs gut. And when he turned around there was a clear-as-day print of a mid-size semi-auto in an IWB holster. Maybe he normally wore a jacket, but it was far from what I consider "concealed".
What would I do in this situation? Run like hell and grab another latte!
Recently I was at the Costco gas station and saw your Average Neighbor type middle aged guy pumping gas. What wasn't average was that he was wearing a tight clinging athletic shirt over his not-so-tight too-many-hotdogs gut. And when he turned around there was a clear-as-day print of a mid-size semi-auto in an IWB holster. Maybe he normally wore a jacket, but it was far from what I consider "concealed".
What would I do in this situation? Run like hell and grab another latte!
Pax Jordana
Member
C:/Dodge/> ****.exe
(That looks right, doesn't it? Gosh, I hardly remember win 3.1)
If you heard the shot, you're probably within range of the 'tide' of people that are trying to get the heck out. Roll with it. Do not draw unless you see the guy and you *have* to engage him. Is he shooting other people, and at random? Consider heroism. Otherwise, any sheep is just as safe as any other in a sufficiently large and fast-moving pack.
(That looks right, doesn't it? Gosh, I hardly remember win 3.1)
If you heard the shot, you're probably within range of the 'tide' of people that are trying to get the heck out. Roll with it. Do not draw unless you see the guy and you *have* to engage him. Is he shooting other people, and at random? Consider heroism. Otherwise, any sheep is just as safe as any other in a sufficiently large and fast-moving pack.
Sans Authoritas
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The cops ran toward the sound of the shooting and tackled the shooter?
-Sans Authoritas
-Sans Authoritas
rainbowbob
Member
That is my understanding. There may have been a few civilians in on the intial take-down.
My understanding from the father of the male shooting victim who did an interview on local radio this morning is that the shot went through his sons wrist/ hand and through the girlfriends thigh, thank god both will be ok although boy has shattered ulna. The third injury came from gsr burns to the face of the man who drew his glock 19 from an ankle holster and tried to pistol whip with it.
while he does have drug and psych problems, he checked on his CPL forms that he doesn't have those problems, and since he's never been busted or institutionalized *against his will* they couldn't deny him. Seems like a loophole that needs to be fixed to me. I'm not for harsher gun control by any means, but mentally ill people should have safeties in place to prevent them from obtaining permits and guns regardless of whether they asked for help or were forced into it.
while he does have drug and psych problems, he checked on his CPL forms that he doesn't have those problems, and since he's never been busted or institutionalized *against his will* they couldn't deny him. Seems like a loophole that needs to be fixed to me. I'm not for harsher gun control by any means, but mentally ill people should have safeties in place to prevent them from obtaining permits and guns regardless of whether they asked for help or were forced into it.
rainbowbob
Member
Eric-WA:
We all know that more stringent controls will not make it impossible for a person with this guy's problems to obtain a firearm. It will, however, give a prosecutor more leverage if he commits a crime or is dangerously psychotic and illegally in possession of a firearm. This might make it easier to have him committed for care or drug treatement if needed.
Bobarino
member
hmmmm, what would i do in this situation? not go to folk life festival. i've been to one, yes count it one, folk life festival. they might as well change the name to stoned hippy life festival. these purveyors of peace and tolerance threatened to slash the tires on my car when i went because it was a bimmer so i must be an evil corporate, oppressive assistant to the man.
my one visit there resulted in seeing a few cases of of the left leaning folks taunting, teasing, and threatening "those @$#%ing yuppies".
the music sucks, the food is great. the parking sucks, and the food is still great.
it didn't surprise me in the least when i heard what lead up to the gun being fired.
had i actually gone and heard a gunshot............exit, stage left. i'm not going to try to sort out who is a good guy and who is a bad guy in a crowd that big. the last thing i want to do is fire on someone who is trying to stop the originator of the violence. i'm opting for the Nike defense in that case.
Bobby
my one visit there resulted in seeing a few cases of of the left leaning folks taunting, teasing, and threatening "those @$#%ing yuppies".
the music sucks, the food is great. the parking sucks, and the food is still great.
it didn't surprise me in the least when i heard what lead up to the gun being fired.
had i actually gone and heard a gunshot............exit, stage left. i'm not going to try to sort out who is a good guy and who is a bad guy in a crowd that big. the last thing i want to do is fire on someone who is trying to stop the originator of the violence. i'm opting for the Nike defense in that case.
Bobby
bdjansen
Member
Another update on the story. Seems to be the biggest thing around this week. 
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2004442313_folklifeshooting28m0.html
At least the guy should be thankfull he wasn't stabbed by a bunch of bikers.
Oh yeah, and since the first guy was grazed in the nose or whatever, does that that count as surviving a 9mm gunshot to the head?
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2004442313_folklifeshooting28m0.html
At least the guy should be thankfull he wasn't stabbed by a bunch of bikers.
Oh yeah, and since the first guy was grazed in the nose or whatever, does that that count as surviving a 9mm gunshot to the head?
lookn4varmints
Member
Another relevant news article...
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/364861_shooting28.html
Alleged Folklife shooter had mental history and gun permit
He had the right to carry firearm under state, federal laws
Last updated May 27, 2008 11:49 p.m. PT
By SCOTT GUTIERREZ
P-I REPORTER
A Snohomish man arrested after three people were shot last weekend at the Northwest Folklife Festival had a valid concealed weapon permit despite a history of mental health problems, police in Seattle and Snohomish County confirmed Tuesday.
A disclosure during a Monday bail hearing that Clinton C. Grainger, 22, suffers from several mental health problems prompted questions about whether he should have been eligible to carry a concealed weapon permit at the time of the shooting at the festival on Saturday.
Grainger was carrying a Glock 19 handgun with 15 rounds in an ankle holster, according to police reports.
He takes medication for anxiety and schizophrenia and has been in a methadone maintenance program through the WCHS Renton Clinic since the age of 18, according to court documents.
He applied for a permit with the Snohomish County Sheriff's Office, and it was approved in January 2007 after a background check showed no disqualifying history, police said.
Grainger is being held in the King County Jail on three counts of second-degree assault after three people were shot during a fight between him and another man. Bail has been set at $350,000.
One bullet struck all three victims, passing through one man's nasal cavity before it penetrated another's wrist and lodged in a woman's leg.
Prosecutors have until Thursday to file charges, Prosecutor's Office spokesman Dan Donohoe said.
Under state and federal law, a mental health diagnosis by itself isn't enough to invalidate someone's right to firearms or a concealed weapon permit, said Eric Nelson, state assistant attorney general, who chaired a Washington state workgroup on mental health and firearms access after the Virginia Tech massacre last year.
The Virginia Tech shooter, Seung Hui Cho, previously had been ordered by a judge into outpatient mental health treatment due to a mental disorder. It should have flagged him in any attempt to legally buy a gun, but the record was never submitted from Virginia databases into a national law enforcement database that is checked by firearms dealers.
Under federal law, unless someone has been involuntarily committed to a mental institution, found not guilty by insanity or deemed by a judge as a "mental defective" and a danger to himself or others, he or she doesn't lose the right to possess firearms, Nelson said.
Washington state law is similar, although it is less restrictive and applies to civil commitments for periods of 90 or 180 days. Federal law also covers anyone ordered held for a 14-day period at a mental hospital or treatment center, Nelson said.
"There is no prohibition in state or federal law that attaches to outpatient mental health treatment where there is no court intervention," he said.
The Snohomish County Sheriff's Office found no red flags after running Grainger's name through law enforcement databases, Capt. Kevin Prentiss said.
In addition to criminal records, state law requires agencies to check with databases managed by the Department of Licensing and the Department of Social and Health Services that keep names of those ineligible to possess weapons due to mental health reasons.
"If there had been any disqualifying information, he would have been denied his permit," Prentiss said.
Grainger has juvenile convictions for misdemeanor theft and possession of stolen property, as well as a long history of traffic offenses. He has no record of serious felonies, according to court documents, which would have invalidated his firearm rights.
If prosecutors file charges this week against Grainger, his concealed weapon permit would be suspended while his case is pending, Prentiss said. If convicted, authorities would determine whether his permit should be revoked.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
P-I reporter Scott Gutierrez can be reached at 206-903-5396 or [email protected].
© 1998-2008 Seattle Post-Intelligencer
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/364861_shooting28.html
Alleged Folklife shooter had mental history and gun permit
He had the right to carry firearm under state, federal laws
Last updated May 27, 2008 11:49 p.m. PT
By SCOTT GUTIERREZ
P-I REPORTER
A Snohomish man arrested after three people were shot last weekend at the Northwest Folklife Festival had a valid concealed weapon permit despite a history of mental health problems, police in Seattle and Snohomish County confirmed Tuesday.
A disclosure during a Monday bail hearing that Clinton C. Grainger, 22, suffers from several mental health problems prompted questions about whether he should have been eligible to carry a concealed weapon permit at the time of the shooting at the festival on Saturday.
Grainger was carrying a Glock 19 handgun with 15 rounds in an ankle holster, according to police reports.
He takes medication for anxiety and schizophrenia and has been in a methadone maintenance program through the WCHS Renton Clinic since the age of 18, according to court documents.
He applied for a permit with the Snohomish County Sheriff's Office, and it was approved in January 2007 after a background check showed no disqualifying history, police said.
Grainger is being held in the King County Jail on three counts of second-degree assault after three people were shot during a fight between him and another man. Bail has been set at $350,000.
One bullet struck all three victims, passing through one man's nasal cavity before it penetrated another's wrist and lodged in a woman's leg.
Prosecutors have until Thursday to file charges, Prosecutor's Office spokesman Dan Donohoe said.
Under state and federal law, a mental health diagnosis by itself isn't enough to invalidate someone's right to firearms or a concealed weapon permit, said Eric Nelson, state assistant attorney general, who chaired a Washington state workgroup on mental health and firearms access after the Virginia Tech massacre last year.
The Virginia Tech shooter, Seung Hui Cho, previously had been ordered by a judge into outpatient mental health treatment due to a mental disorder. It should have flagged him in any attempt to legally buy a gun, but the record was never submitted from Virginia databases into a national law enforcement database that is checked by firearms dealers.
Under federal law, unless someone has been involuntarily committed to a mental institution, found not guilty by insanity or deemed by a judge as a "mental defective" and a danger to himself or others, he or she doesn't lose the right to possess firearms, Nelson said.
Washington state law is similar, although it is less restrictive and applies to civil commitments for periods of 90 or 180 days. Federal law also covers anyone ordered held for a 14-day period at a mental hospital or treatment center, Nelson said.
"There is no prohibition in state or federal law that attaches to outpatient mental health treatment where there is no court intervention," he said.
The Snohomish County Sheriff's Office found no red flags after running Grainger's name through law enforcement databases, Capt. Kevin Prentiss said.
In addition to criminal records, state law requires agencies to check with databases managed by the Department of Licensing and the Department of Social and Health Services that keep names of those ineligible to possess weapons due to mental health reasons.
"If there had been any disqualifying information, he would have been denied his permit," Prentiss said.
Grainger has juvenile convictions for misdemeanor theft and possession of stolen property, as well as a long history of traffic offenses. He has no record of serious felonies, according to court documents, which would have invalidated his firearm rights.
If prosecutors file charges this week against Grainger, his concealed weapon permit would be suspended while his case is pending, Prentiss said. If convicted, authorities would determine whether his permit should be revoked.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
P-I reporter Scott Gutierrez can be reached at 206-903-5396 or [email protected].
© 1998-2008 Seattle Post-Intelligencer
DAVIDSDIVAD
member
Sorry, I know this has sort of run it's course but I believe this may be from the same incident http://www.collegehumor.com/picture:1817502
rainbowbob
Member
Ah yes...chicken boy!
Dksimon
Member
I would gather the people Im with and put our heads down and get out of there ASAP. I wouldnt want to get into a firefight where there is a large crowd of innocents you have a pretty good chance of hitting more than the bad guy in that situation and It simply isnt worth it.
Unless the gun is pointed at you i think your best bet is just to get out of dodge.
Unless the gun is pointed at you i think your best bet is just to get out of dodge.
thebaldguy
Member
Leaving is the best and safest option in my opinion. Keep alert, and make sure the trouble doesn't follow as you leave.
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