Shotguns in police cars.

[winstonsmith]

We all know that LEOs carry shotguns/rifles in between the front seats. I've been looking for these every time I pass a cop car. I've noticed that the ratio of people who have them to people who don't is 1:1. What would be the reasoning to not carry a shotgun? Are there only a limited amount of shotguns? What kind of circumstances would you need the shotgun in?

 

[LeonCarr]

Hey Winston,

There is no reason for a police officer not to carry a shotgun. Sad but true, most officers carry them in the trunk of the car, where it does them absolutely no good. A better place is up front in a vertical or horizontal rack. Most shotguns in LE use are provided by the department, and in some departments, mostly smaller departments, they are furnished by the individual officer. In 8 years of Law Enforcement, I have used an 870 in the line of duty about 100 times, in various situations, without firing a shot. Bad guys tend to do what you want them to do when they are looking down the business end of a .72 caliber one-eyed monster . The shotgun is a good tool to have. The day you don't have a shotgun is the day you will need it. I hope that answers your questions.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

 

[El Tejon]

winston, it depends. Different departments mount them different places.

Reasons for not carrying shotgun:

1. Some departments near me carry their shoulder weapons in the trunk out of political concern over aggrieved minorities;

2. Officer not issued one because of liability concerns or budget;

3. Officer has not qualified with weapon;

4. Officer chooses not to carry one;

5. Shotgun is present but actually used as ashtray (see, e.g. Chicago);

6. Shotgun present but only used to dispatch wounded animals (sigh, near me);

7. Officer carries carbine instead.

 

[Jeff White]

Winston,
The trend towards smaller cars with dual airbags has changed the way we mount accessories in the squad cars. We currently use Big Sky racks that mount near the roof. The AR (our choice AR or shotgun) isn't visible from the outside of the car. There are other options that would make the long gun difficult to spot too.

Many officers carry their long guns in the trunk because their employer is too cheap to provide an electric lock. then there are those officer who choose not to carry a long gun because it is too much trouble to draw it from supply, load, carry to the car at the bginning of the shift, carry to the station at the end of the shift, unload and turn in every day .

Jeff

 

[winstonsmith]

Is there a reason why a department would mix and match these mounting solutions? I can see a slow changover for a large department like the SFPD. But I've noticed that alot of the time the ones who aren't carrying the shotgun in the front seat rack are k-9 units, lieutenants or other special cars. I dunno, food for thought.

 

[TarpleyG]

My friend works for the Dallas PD and gets a shotgun issued at the beginning of every shift. He puts it horizontally in the area between the driver's seat and the door but he doesn't load it

GT

 

[OEF_VET]

My future father-in-law was telling me a story concerning his hometown PD and their shotguns. According to him, one of the cops needed his shotgun for something or other. When he pulled it out, candy wrappers and cigarette butts fell out of the barrel. Apparently, the shotgun sat in the cruiser for quite awhile and had been used as a trash receptacle by his fellow cops.

 

[Gocart]

Department policy requires us to carry AR's/870's in the trunk rather than up front for PC reasons. On my shift (evenings), they are deployed fairly regularly. Unofficially, once they make it out of the trunk, they often stay in the front seat for the rest of the shift.

 

[fawndog]

A little off topic, my buddy tells me how SFSO has them in a room, the Surefires are always run dead from some lazy a55 hiding and reading. They also like to stuff candy wrappers in the barrels.

 

[clubsoda22]

Bad guys tend to do what you want them to do when they are looking down the business end of a .72 caliber one-eyed monster

If you're lucky you'll find a girl like that too.

 

[Dorian]

Aren't there also overhead compartments that some PDs use to hold the long guns?

I believe the head instructor at my police academy spoke about this. But I've personally never seen it.

 

[Steve in PA]

We have one shotgun mounted in an overhead rack. We have another mounted in a rack in the front next to the radio (upright). We have another mounted in a muzzle down angle in our 4x4. The other has got a shotgun yet.

There is one dept......not far from me, who has all their long guns (AR's & shotguns) secured under lock and key at the station. Guess they figure they can call a time out and run back for them.

 

[Erik]

Some good reasponses so far...

Another reason shotguns are left behind or not issued in the first place is the perception that they are more of a hinderance than a help. This "when you need them they are great, but the rest of the time they are a pain in the a##" mentality doen't stand up to serious scrutiny of course, but as with many things perception counts for more than reality.

 

[Tracy Hightower]

Winston,

In my opinion the shotgun is the most effective and versatile weapon a police officer can deploy. Using buckshot, it is ballistically superior to any other weapon an officer could choose to use within its rage limitations for buckshot. Using slugs it is an effective rifle out to 100 yards and has a proven ability to penetrate objects that handgun calibers may not. In Tac-Team operations it can be used to breach doors and using flash bang rounds can be used as a distraction during entries. It can also be used to introduce irritants such as OC through barricades. For riot and animal control it can be loaded with rubber buck shot or slugs. It can be effectively deployed against a subject holding a knife or a club using bean bag or hydro-kinetic rounds. As a weapon for police, due to the number of ammunition choices and applications, its versatility is unmatched.
Personally I have an H & K M1 super 90 with me every time I go on duty. It is carried with the magazine loaded with buckshot, chamber empty. I carry 4 slugs and 2 hydro-kinetic rounds on the sidesaddle and 2 bean bag rounds on my duty belt with access to the other types of ammo mentioned if needed. Anytime I exit the vehicle and I know I will have a gun in my hand it will in most cases always be the shotgun.

 

[stevelyn]

Winston,

Our situation and requirements are a little different and rather unique. My shotgun is my friend and is always well cared for and nearby.
It rides in a muzzle down rack that angles toward the driver's side well within reach of my right hand and I can even rest my arm on the butt while driving. I also carry a 50 round bandoleer hung over the passenger seatback. It contains about a dozen or so rounds of #4 Nitro Steel (yes that's #4 steel shot, not buck) The rest is filled with 00Buck, Brenneke and Foster style slugs. During the winter months my shotgun is loaded with 00Buck. About April or May, the chamber is loaded with a steel shot load, followed by a 00Buck and the rest Brennekes.
During the summer we have a lot of dumpster-raiding brown bears show up in town prior to the salmon runs starting and again in the fall after the runs end before hibernation. During that time not a shift goes by where I haven't had to at least get it out of the rack.
My technique initially is to discourage their visits by hopefully dumping a load of #4 steel in their butts at about 25-35 yards out. This usually does the trick and they are never seen again. However, should a bear fail to retreat after getting burned with the steel and proceed to charge, the 00Buck will be used to break up the momentum of the charge. Then of course the Brennekes are used to kill him. I've shot up about a box of #4 steel in two years and only had to kill one. It only took one Brenneke.
If there was one thing I would change on my gun, it would probably be installation of tritium insert rifle sights rather than the bead.

 

[foghornl]

From my limited experiences, nearly 30 years back, in the cars we had both shotguns (Remmy 870's & Mossy 500's) and Marlins in .35Rem. One in the stand-up rack, and the other in a special mount across the lower portion of the front seat.

 

[greyhound]

We currently use Big Sky racks that mount near the roof.

Wouldn't that extend back into the part that a suspect might be secured in?
That might make me nervous.

(Sorry, my whole up close experience with police was a roommate who got his take home cruiser taken away for having mustard all over it {as well as his duty belt/weapon.} Not exactly too serious about the job or firearms either! )

 

[Jeff White]

greyhound,
The racks do not go behind the cage. We do have one car without a cage and the Sergeant who normally uses it, has the rack back far enough that you could access it from the back seat. The weapons are carried cruiser ready and secured in the rack by an electric lock. Prisoners are rarely transported in that vehicle. If they are, they are secured in the front seat, cuffed behind their back and strapped in with the seatbelt. Little chance they could access the weapon.

Jeff

 

[igor]

Up here the shotguns have been phased out and replaced with semi-auto MP5's. The police tech centre did extensive research to find that an officer can't be 100% sure where all the pellets of a shot load go... and found the semi-auto carbine better enough.

 

[furetto7]

All nine of our vehicles carry shotguns, all of the crown vics with the exception of the K9 unit have transport cells, the shotguns are carried in electric locks mounted to the top front of the partition, the K9 unit carries his in an electric lock mounted muzzle down on the passenger side of the console. Our Pickups(all extended cab) carry the shotgun mounted vetically in an electric lock behind the drivers seat. In addition to the shotguns we all carry either Mini-14's or AR-15's in the trunk of the cars and in electric locks in the trucks. To the casual observer none of the guns are visible.

 

[7677]

TarpleyG,
When I worked for Dallas PD, I stored my shotgun in the same place; between the door and the driver seat unless I worked two man then the passenger side officer got it. I always loaded four rounds in the magazine and chamber empty. Some officers who placed their shotguns in the trunk. BTW, Dallas does not issue shotguns per se, officers who wish to carry a shotgun can check out one at the beginning of their shift and then check it back in at the Double 6. I know quite a few Dallas officers who do not carry a shotgun.

 

[Jim March]

Around...lesse, early 90's, there was a report of a shooting involving the San Jose (California, Silicon Valley area) PD.

Cop responds solo to a call involving a mentally disturbed "urban outdoorsman" in a business making a scene. Cop tries to guide the guy gently out the place, he grabs the cop's sidearm. Cop runs away, nut chases, kills him.

Somebody back at the business sees the gun-grab and chase, calls it in plus the cop makes a sketchy report while running. A huge number of cops come screaming in from every direction, and spot the nut running from out of an alley into a large street, waving the gun overhead. Cops open up on him with an avalanche of lead.

One of those cops uses a shotgun with 00 lead from 50 yards out. One of his pellets bounces weird, hits another cop just under the vest, lodges in his kidney, kills him.

The shotgun has it's place, but there's situations where it is NOT the best tool at all. Some cops don't understand this and think every problem is a nail to the shotgun's hammer.

I don't know what the solution is...there ARE things the shotgun is needed for. One option: use a rifle as the main long-gun, but supply 'em with an NFA-class 14" barrel pistol-grip shotgun as a limited-ammo, special purpose weapon versus "the first thing to grab when it gets hairy".

 

[tcsd1236]

TCSD carries the 870 over the officers head against the cage. For many years we weren't carrying our old Ithaca 37s in the cars at all because the range staff considered them unreliable and took them out of service...we didn't qualify on them at all for about 4 years. We finally sold them off about 5 years ago, bought all new 870s and the current mounting system.
My part time agency carries rifles in the rack over the officers head against the cage; shotguns are stored at the office and consist of an Ithaca 37 and an older Remington that started out its life as a sporting shotgun.

 

[jhisaac1]

Reasons for not carrying shotgun:
Because your local PD issues MP5's.

So, what would be more intimdating, a shotgun or a sub-gun?

I don't know the reasoning behind doing the SMG vs SG, but I do think it's pretty cool.

 

[Black92LX]

I like the way they look in the cab. i think it sweet and am thinking of making this modification to my fox body mustang.