Sig P320 Issue

[wayneinFL]

I would assume the voluntary upgrade hasn't been done on this gun. Hopefully that's the case, and the upgrade corrects the issue.

Without seeing video of an incident, I believed these cases were mostly operator error. This video shows a discharge from two angles. I don't see where anything external touched or jostled the gun or the holster. I don't see where the gun could have been forced down into the holster, with an obstruction in the trigger guard. Just goes off with almost no movement on the part of the officer.

 

[hoardingthemanual]

I don’t want to defend a company. God bless the officers.

 

[jmr40]

The issue with the 320 is pretty well known. I don't know enough about the exact mechanics of that trigger to say HOW it happens. But I have no doubt it CAN happen. The video confirms that.

I have an older Remington 700 that has dropped the firing pin in the past with no trigger pull. As a result, I've done a lot of research on that trigger design and have a pretty good feel for how and why it happens with that now discontinued trigger. I can also understand why it happens so rarely that some people can't accept any explanation other than operator error. But when you've actually seen it happen you believe.

Something is wrong and like you I hope Sig gets it figured out. Remington had it figured out 70 years ago, they just refused to admit it until 2007. It seems like Sig is doing a better job of that.

My personal Sigs are the M17 and M18 which are the military versions of the 320 with a manual safety. I don't know if the safety is enough to prevent this type of discharge or not. I hope so because I really like the guns.

 

[sigarms228]

Possible the holster flexed and moved/pressed the trigger on the P320 as the officer was manipulating the legs of that person. Unlike Glocks and most other striker fired pistols the P320 has no dingus trigger safety that will not allow the trigger to discharge the weapon in such situation unless the dingus safety is also pressed. With the p320 just the outside edge of the trigger being moved could cause the pistol to discharge. That has happened before with the P320. Also a foreign object in the holster could also cause the same. Hopefully the pistol and the holster are being inspected closely.

It's been a while since I fired a P320 but I remember that few I tried had very little trigger take up which I did not like for a pistol that I might use for self defense compared to others i have tried and that would mean the trigger would not need to me moved much to discharge.

 

[Outlaw75]

Can't get video to play.

Here's a news report from YouTube. The chief says he's got 30 Glocks on the way as replacements.

 

[InTheSwamp]

The chief says he's got 30 Glocks on the way as replacements.

Smart Chief.

 

[Mike J]

I would be interested to know if the pistol that discharged was manufactured before the "voluntary upgrade" or after. If it was made before the voluntary upgrade & the department did not send it in then they are guilty of negligence. If after then that is a whole other thing. I have no experience with Sig pistols. I would honestly like to have one of their DA/SA pistols but I've seen so many reports of unintentional discharges with the P320 I doubt I would ever buy one.

 

[upptick]

Here's some actual analysis with a persuasive tentative conclusion that the officer didn't have the Sig p320 properly holstered when he pressed his holster up against another officer while picking up the legs of the guy being arrested. I've been highly suspicious of the p320 over this issue but this time I don't think "it was the gun's fault."



...looks more like a bad holster / holstering.

 

[jmorris]

Are there a couple of seconds in the 13 minutes of video that shows something other than a guy wearing a kill zombies shirt? If so what specific time should I fast forward to?

 

[TTv2]

So we're blaming the holster for a striker pistol with a questionable design? Whatever, I don't think Sigs are worth the price and praise, there's better options out there from corporations with crazy high turnover rates that do business with a focus on getting government contracts.

 

[InTheSwamp]

Actual Analysis and Yankee Marshall don't go together in my book.

 

[Outlaw75]

Are there a couple of seconds in the 13 minutes of video that shows something other than a guy wearing a kill zombies shirt? If so what specific time should I fast forward to?

Here you go.

 

[jmorris]

Thanks, that certainly doesn’t look like enough contact to make a holstered firearm discharge.

Would be interesting to see what the flaw is in the holster/firearm relationship.

Doesn‘t seem to be an isolated problem though. Certainly would figure out what holster they are using In Milwaukee and avoid them for sure.

 

[Edaw468]

Maybe a Safariland SLS, based on the large thumb hood? If so those are in service in a lot of police departments without setting their guns off.

 

[9mmepiphany]

The chief says he's got 30 Glocks on the way as replacements.

That should be your first hint that it was a knee jerk reaction, not based on any evidence

 

[9mmepiphany]

So we're blaming the holster for a striker pistol with a questionable design?

I think you're missing the point of the video.

He isn't blaming the holster at all, what he's saying is the the holster wasn't being used properly

 

[9mmepiphany]

Actual Analysis and Yankee Marshall don't go together in my book.

I don't disagree with you...he is a bit over the top in drama.

But his observation of the gun being high in the holster was something that caught my eye when I first looked at the video. My first thought was, "Why isn't he securing his gun in his holster?" The gun, after the discharge, was clearly deeper in the holster.

The not quite as obvious factor was when the sweeping officer lost his balance, I wasn't sure if he fell against the suspect or the officer holding the suspects left arm. When the video is slowed down, you can clearly see the two officers colliding with the standing officer on top of the gun.

I'd write this incident off to operator error causing the ND

 

[pa4445]

This doesn't inspire confidence in the weapon.
I bought a P320 when they first came out, and one of the main reasons was because I thought it had an excellent trigger pull for a striker fired gun.
I sent it in to to SIG when the "upgrade" was offered. When I got it back the trigger pull was horrible so I sent it back. They returned it to me untouched with a note that it was in spec.
That really turned me off to SIG, and I ended up trading the gun off.

 

[hoardingthemanual]

I don't want to defend this company but if there's one thing gun guys are- it's brand loyal. Hail CEO's

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I can't tell what happened. (other than everyone looking around)

 

[Old Dog]

I'd be willing to bet there was a foreign object inside the holster that migrated into the trigger guard...

All the lawsuits, not a single one wherein "experts" and forensic firearms examiners were able to replicate any "unintended discharges" of the SIG P-320.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Thanks, that certainly doesn’t look like enough contact to make a holstered firearm discharge

That's sort of the point...that the pistol wasn't completely holstered and that the contact shoved the gun the rest of the way into position

 

[jmorris]

That's sort of the point...that the pistol wasn't completely holstered and that the contact shoved the gun the rest of the way into position

It would certainly be interesting to learn more about the holster. You can’t even use the retention features on level III and IV duty holsters, if the firearm isn’t completely holstered.

 

[bearcreek]

I don't understand why organizations like this are still buying P320's. There are several other good options that don't have a reputation for going off like that.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I don't understand why organizations like this are still buying P320's. There are several other good options that don't have a reputation for going off like that.

Because the reputation is overblown and perhaps organizations aren't a "woke" as we might believe.

I'm sure total price and the perception to "Buy American" play a part also