Alllen Bundy
Member
A manual trigger safety is one that must be engaged and disengaged by moving a lever or a button.
An automatic trigger safety would be like a grip safety where the trigger safety is disengaged when you grip the pistol firmly.
Sig Sauer P365 v Glock..?
- Thread starter Brubz
- Start date
A manual trigger safety is one that must be engaged and disengaged by moving a lever or a button.
An automatic trigger safety would be like a grip safety where the trigger safety is disengaged when you grip the pistol firmly.
OP
OP
Brubz
Member
I believe the question is your use of the word "trigger". On the Sig Sauer web site under P365 models, they refer to the availability of a "Manuel Safety" the word trigger does not appear.
That would seem to be your choice of words not Sig Sauer's or apparently some members of this forum
That would seem to be your choice of words not Sig Sauer's or apparently some members of this forum
Correct. This is the first time I've heard of a manual or thumb safety being called a "manual trigger safety". To most people, a "trigger safety" is the dingus on a Glock trigger.
Riomouse911
Member
Ya, I try to stay up on gun features and was a bit confused, I wasn’t sure if it was something newly added to the 365, but I see that it is a thumb safety that is being described.
This is what I equate to a manual trigger safety, shown in the off-safe position here. When the safety is engaged the trigger on this 1100 .410 will be blocked by the button so it cannot be pulled to fire, but the action can still be cycled.
Stay safe.
Alllen Bundy
Member
Sig NEGLECTED to mention the word "trigger". Without that word it is unclear as to which safety you are referring to.
Example, the Sig P365 series has TWO safety levers. One safety lever is EXTERNAL and that engages and disengages the trigger safety.
The other safety lever is INTERNAL. And that disengages the Striker Safety/Block.
Alllen Bundy
Member
People commonly omit important words that clarify their meaning.
Also note that Sig does not refer to the manual trigger safety lever as a "thumb safety" in their parts diagram.
You could theoretically have a manual striker safety lever that engaged a block to prevent the striker from releasing.
InTheSwamp
Member
Sig has become the Disney of the Gun Industry...Lots of glitter to cover the flaws.
Alllen Bundy
Member
Also consider that the "Thumb Safety" on a 1911 is a Slide Lock.
The 1911 trigger safety is actually the grip safety and must be squeezed firmly in order to disengage the trigger safety.
The 1911 trigger safety is actually the grip safety and must be squeezed firmly in order to disengage the trigger safety.
JR24
Member
and by being pedantic and not using common parlance you’ve spent how many posts explaining a concept you know very well would have been clear had you used “thumb safety”.
Alllen Bundy
Member
A "Thumb Safety" can be a "Manual Trigger Safety" in a P365 or it can also be a "Slide Lock" as used in a 1911. The thumb actuates a lever that has a different function in each pistol.
I'm not a huge fan of non-specific jargon.
This is not dis-similar to bicycle geeks getting upset because I used the term "Sprocket" instead of "Chain Ring" or "Chain Wheel".
Alllen Bundy
Member
Likewise, many people refer to a grip module as a "frame", when in fact on a P365 and other similar pistols, the "Frame" and "Grip Module" are separate pieces, unlike earlier pistol designs where the "frame" and "grip" were one piece.
JR24
Member
Fair enough, it just takes extra explanation, but I suppose if you don’t mind making the posts
Riomouse911
Member
Maybe SIGSauer doesn’t call it a “manual trigger safety” because the “manual safety lever” on the striker-fired P365 blocks the sear movement of the P365, not the trigger movement. (In the owners manual, page 20, see below.)
Adding the word “trigger” is unnecessary, especially since the trigger itself (or alone) isn’t what is being impeded by the safety lever. Like the “ safety mechanism” on an 1100 or a blade-style “trigger safety” as used in Glock pistols; Both mechanisms block the actual trigger movement until deactivated.
Incorrect terminology usage is what leads to confusion.
You can call it whatever you want to, but expect people to ask for clarification if you are using terms incorrectly describing how something operates.
Stay safe.
True. I'd be interested to see that term used by a manufacturer or professional firearms user. I couldn't find any examples in a brief search. Could you provide a few?
CapnMac
Member
Only partially and consequentially.
The internal faces impinge on the sear to lock to the hammer. It's a hugely important part of fitting a 1911 thumb safety.
Alllen Bundy
Member
Blocking the sear prevents you from depressing the trigger past the wall and releasing the sear.
But it would probably be more accurate to refer to a P365 externally actuated manual trigger safety as a "Manual Sear Block" as that is what it actually does instead of directly blocking the trigger.
I stand corrected, as this would appear to be both a slide lock and a trigger safety, if I am assuming correctly that blocking the sear prevents full trigger movement.
Beside the externally actuated manual trigger safety and the internally actuated "Striker Safety" / "Striker Block" in a P365, there is also an takedown safety that prevents you from removing the slide if a magazine is inserted. And if the externally actuated manual trigger safety is engaged it also prevents the slide from being removed. Then there is also the disconnecter, which is a safety to prevent the pistol from firing when the slide is out of battery.
Trigger Safety vs No Trigger Safety
https://www.defensivecarry.com/threads/trigger-safety-vs-no-trigger-safety.485613/
In the discussion linked above there are multiple people referring to an externally actuated manual trigger safety as a "Safety", "Manual Safety", "Trigger Safety", "External Safety", "Manual External Safety", "External Manual Safety", "Thumb Safety", "Manual Thumb Safety", and "Mechanical Safety".
But some people are also referring to the trigger dongle on a Glock, used to make the pistol drop safe, as a "Trigger Safety". There is are also references to "Trigger Blade" (Glock style trigger dongle) or "Hinge Safeties". Referring to a "Drop Safety" that is located on a trigger as a "Trigger Safety" seems like a very poor choice of a name as it does NOT prevent the gun from firing if the trigger is depressed.
All of these different names for the same kind of safety in one single discussion, as well as the same name being used for two different kinds of safeties! There does not appear to be a consensus as to what to call an externally actuated manual trigger safety.
Old Dog
Member
So I take it you've never shot, or owned, any SIG pistols. Otherwise, you would not spout such nonsense. (Not to mention, that type of statement with zero documentation or explanation contributes exactly nothing to the discussion)
I own a couple Glock 43X pistols -- quite worthy in their own right -- as well as three SIG P-365s (one with manual safety, one without, and an XL). They're all terrific pistols. The trigger dingus on the Glocks, well, on the 43Xs I can get used to. Excellent tactile and audible reset. The SIGs? I like the manual safety, but can live without it. Triggers are exceptional, as are the X-Ray sights.
People just gettin' down in the weeds, and as my kid used to say, "haters gonna hate."
An open mind is a wonderful thing.
dh1633pm
Contributing Member
For me, I let the wife decide. She picked the Sig. It was what she felt fit her best. She liked how it fit her better than the Glock.
InTheSwamp
Member
Not hate at all. Don't own any Sig, but that's just a matter of preference. I like, and have shot, their hammer-fire offerings, striker not so much.
Like Disney, Sig is a big, innovative and financially successful company. They also have had a good share of issues with their products over the last few years. Seems as though they (Sig) consider the consumers the last leg of the QC process.
The P320 drop safety blunder was a complete lack of care and concern on their part. The drop safety test is quintessential for all striker-fired pistol without a safety lever. I don't think they took the time, nor had the interest, to fully test it before releasing it to the public.
The P365, as wonderful as it is, was released with a myriad of problems it made you asked what worked: Failure to feed, return to battery failure, slide lock problems, broken pins, dead trigger, you name it. Most, if not all, have been corrected, don't know, but this was another careless act from them.
Peace.
I have Glocks but the wife and I each carry a 365XL now days. We both carried Glocks for years. Wanna bet Glock had issues when they first came out? Of course the internet was not around then with all of the wonderful stories that abound now days. How many Glock leg stories are out there now days blaming the pistol? Yes I am aware it's not the pistol it's the operator. Of course that's why there are choices. Buy what you like and like what you buy...
You misunderstood me. I was talking about manufacturers or professional firearm users, not joe random on another forum.
Riomouse911
Member
As a Glock, SIGSauer 3- and P- series, 1911/2011, S&W revolver, Ruger Mini-14 & GP/SP series revolver and an 870/1100 armorer; I am sort of familiar with the safety functions of various firearms. I am not Gods gift by any stretch, but I know a bit.
There is a consensus about what to call a thumb activated safety outside of Internet forums. Just call it a manual safety, or better yet a thumb safety, and like like a crankset or a rear cassette, everyone will know exactly what you are talking about with zero confusion.
CapnMac
Member
It's a "hammer stop" more than anything else.
The trigger cannot move, as the sear is fixed.
It's a bit like the "Park lock" on a car's transmission.
While the outer portion does tuck up into a recess in the slide, the slide is not really locked, mechanically. Not in the way that, say a Gov't Model 380 or Colt 1903 lock actually engages the slide with a hook.
The fit of the thumb safety to the slide on a 1911 is the least important part of the fitting.
Army required JMB to include the thumb safety at the very end of the process, in 1910, if memory serves, right after the last acceptance trial. JMB designed it as "enough" to meet the Army requirements, and not as a refined, finished feature.
Cause it's more interesting than yet another "this vs. that" pistol debate.
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